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Ythan
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DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance
#27045381 - 11/18/20 11:26 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance filtermag.org
The Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) is looking to expand its anti-diversion surveillance infrastructure by being able to search and analyze myriad patient behaviors for the vast majority of controlled and scheduled drug prescriptions—all accompanied by a rapid process for legally unveiling personally identifying information.
In early September, the agency requested proposals for the creation of software capable of searching at least 85 percent of all US residents’ controlled-substance prescriptions for certain patient behaviors, as well as prescriber and pharmacist practices.
According to the agency’s request for proposal (RFP), the DEA is interested in its agents having “unlimited access to patient de-identified data” on re/filled prescriptions, daily supply, payment type, dosing information and gender, among other characteristics, until at least 2025.
At publication time, the DEA had not responded to Filter‘s request for comment. This article will be updated if comment is received.
The Pharmacy Prescription Data system, as the RFP calls it, would cede patient-level data to the federal drug-war agency to a far greater extent than comparable existing databases. The current Automated Reports and Consolidated Orders System (ARCOS), created by the Controlled Substances Act alongside the DEA itself, only monitors controlled substances’ manufacture, supply chains and distribution.
The DEA’s desired ability to search controlled-substance prescriptions to this degree targets seemingly mundane behaviors—like the number of times a patient paid in cash for a Schedule II substance like Adderall or OxyContin, or the geographic distances between patients and their prescribers and pharmacies.
But it also subjects people prescribed medications for opioid use disorder (OUD) to even more surveillance than is currently the case. In particular, the Pharmacy Prescription Data system would allow the DEA to track patients by their “Number of Opiate and Buprenorphine combinations.”
Buprenorphine patients’ records have already been available to some state law enforcement, if such agencies operate a state’s prescription drug monitoring program (PMDP). As of August 2020, a new federal regulation permits patients’ methadone records to be entered into state PMDPs by providers.
PDMPs’ capabilities are a patchwork in comparison to the streamlined Pharmacy Prescription Data system requested by the DEA. For example, PDMPs’ data refresh at varying intervals by state, ranging from real-time to daily to weekly updates, as Dr. Peter Kreiner, a senior scientist at Brandeis University’s Institute for Behavioral Health, explained to Filter. The DEA’s software would involve data refreshed each day.
Scrutiny of OUD treatments will also be applied to prescribers and pharmacists. For the former, the DEA will be able to scrutinize their “percentage of patients receiving an Opioid and Buprenorphine together,” and, for the latter, the “Number of Oxycodone and Buprenorphine within an overlapping window” and “Percentage of scripts that are Oxy Buprenorphine within an overlapping window.”
“The impact of including buprenorphine will be appalling for people’s health,” Dr. Hannah Cooper, the chair of substance use disorder research at Emory University, told Filter. Applying more scrutiny to an already stigmatized medication could deter patients from accessing it and pharmacists from providing it, she said. That would add onto pharmacists’ existing hesitations, or oughtright refusal, to supply buprenorphine, which has been linked by Cooper and colleagues to existing DEA regulations.
Although the Pharmacy Prescription Data system will track individual patients with unique “encrypted identifiers,” the chosen contractor must be able to facilitate a three-business-day retrieval of personally identifying patient information when served with an administrative subpoena by the DEA.
The DEA has a history of exploiting administrative subpoenas to build a mass surveillance apparatus. Pre-dating—and outlasting—the National Security Agency’s infamous bulk telephone metadata collection revealed by whistleblower Edward Snowden, one DEA program, launched in 1992 and apparently still kicking, gathers international phone call data en masse.
The drug-war agency used its administrative subpoena power, according to a 2019 DEA inspector general report, to “collect data in bulk without making a prior finding that the records were […] ‘relevant or material’ to any specific defined investigation”, and it failed to develop “a robust legal review” of its practices. The watchdog agency called the DEA’s conduct “troubling.”
“The idea that patient-level data is available to the DEA is quite frightening. We don’t want to make people worry that their decisions will be monitored by this highly punitive federal agency,” said Cooper. “If you’ve been inhabiting a space where you’ve been persecuted by the federal government for some time, and they now have access to your private medical information, there will be tremendous consequences for population health and health equity.”
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Study The CNS
Anecdotal Subtext


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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Ythan] 1
#27045582 - 11/18/20 01:48 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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The DEA must be de-funded and prosecuted for violating the constitution as well as patient privacy laws. You Americans always take it up the a** when it comes to employees of the government. They are just doing business, seeking money and adventure against people in general. When will you lazy Americans stand up united against these slave-masters?
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Ythan]
#27045843 - 11/18/20 04:16 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Next thing you know, they'll want access to your full medical records and medical history. And any case notes doctors have on you. And the full history of every prescription you've ever had and every doctor visit you've ever gone to, and what happened during those.
Hell, why not just video tape every visit, because I'm sure the DEA would love to have that too!
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Holybullshit
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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: nooneman] 1
#27045925 - 11/18/20 04:57 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't see how this doesn't violate HIPAA, but that's the problem with GOP obstructionism going back over 20 years that has allowed republican presidents, and especially Trump, to fill our judiciary with partisan extremists while blocking even moderates from being appointed to the bench.
Even when government agencies are clearly violating the law and/or constitution, you have to have a sensible judge to stop them.
It's laughable that the right are the ones constantly complaining about activist judges failing to uphold the constitution, when their judges always fail to uphold the right of the common man and only invoke the constitution in order to come down on the side of corporations(who they believe possess "personhood" under the law).
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Holybullshit
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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Study The CNS]
#27045933 - 11/18/20 05:04 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Study The CNS said: The DEA must be de-funded and prosecuted for violating the constitution as well as patient privacy laws. You Americans always take it up the a** when it comes to employees of the government. They are just doing business, seeking money and adventure against people in general. When will you lazy Americans stand up united against these slave-masters?
It's not like people aren't trying...our government is set up for minority rule. Because when the system was created we were largely an agrarian society, and agriculture was the driving force of our economy.
This is obvious with the Senate, but even the House and Electoral College over represent smaller populations...for small states it may be one rep/electoral vote per 100,000, hypothetically, people but for larger states its one per every 250,000. Progressives and Democrats receive a FAR larger number of votes each election year, even in mid-terms, but those votes are concentrated in a smaller number of districts/states.
And the Supreme Court has recently ruled that gerrymandering, using demographic information, is perfectly legal as long as the goal is to disenfranchise the opposing parties voters and not minorities in and of themselves.
I can't see the US ever fixing its problem without a parliamentary system, or at the very, very least making gerrymandering with partisan intent illegal along with real campaign finance reform and public financing of campaigns..
Edited by Holybullshit (11/18/20 05:30 PM)
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VP123
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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Holybullshit]
#27046091 - 11/18/20 06:36 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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In the meantime, companies like PurduePharma can do anything they want and avoid scrutiny until there was a point when it was impossible to hide the death bodies.
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Camwritesgonzo
The Unflushable Stool



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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: VP123]
#27046849 - 11/19/20 07:56 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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-------------------- "I've always maintained that reality is for those who can't face drugs."-Tom Waits "I feel the same way about disco as I feel about herpes."-Hunter S. Thompson A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?
 
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Barnaby
Interesting lifetime


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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Ythan]
#27046932 - 11/19/20 08:50 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Depressing reading that as the U.S. turns into China. Fuck the D.E.A. The positive to negative is overwhelming.
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polaritymind
relaxed attention


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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Barnaby]
#27046983 - 11/19/20 09:41 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Honestly I think this is good. All that over-prescribin Oxycontin, Pharmacies selling a million doses a month? That aint good.
-------------------- "to affirm life is to also affirm death" -Albert hofmann
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Camwritesgonzo
The Unflushable Stool



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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: polaritymind] 2
#27047134 - 11/19/20 11:01 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
polaritymind said: Honestly I think this is good. All that over-prescribin Oxycontin, Pharmacies selling a million doses a month? That aint good.
Right, because we all know that people are completely devoid of all ability to decide whether or not they want to take the meds they're prescribed or even whether or not they want the prescription before it's written. It's much better to treat people like children. How about educating people about what they're being prescribed instead of putting everyone who is on meds under surveillance like a bunch of fucking criminals.
-------------------- "I've always maintained that reality is for those who can't face drugs."-Tom Waits "I feel the same way about disco as I feel about herpes."-Hunter S. Thompson A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?
 
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Study The CNS
Anecdotal Subtext


Registered: 11/17/20
Posts: 1,588
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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Camwritesgonzo]
#27047171 - 11/19/20 11:18 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have 3 questions for everyone, regardless of what nation (or territory) you reside in:
1. Do you truthfully feel your government employees are treating you with dignity and respect? 2. Do you truthfully feel you are secure in working with your documents and possessions, including what goes into your body? 3. Do you truthfully feel that your government employees respect your privacy in every aspect of life, as you desire it?
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Camwritesgonzo
The Unflushable Stool



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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Study The CNS]
#27047229 - 11/19/20 11:50 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Study The CNS said: I have 3 questions for everyone, regardless of what nation (or territory) you reside in:
1. Do you truthfully feel your government employees are treating you with dignity and respect? 2. Do you truthfully feel you are secure in working with your documents and possessions, including what goes into your body? 3. Do you truthfully feel that your government employees respect your privacy in every aspect of life, as you desire it?
No, no, and no. That's why I don't think the DEA should have any more clearance to invade the lives of the people any further than it already does. If anything, DEA agents should get bullets in their guts.
-------------------- "I've always maintained that reality is for those who can't face drugs."-Tom Waits "I feel the same way about disco as I feel about herpes."-Hunter S. Thompson A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?
 
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Holybullshit
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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: polaritymind]
#27047589 - 11/19/20 03:44 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Besides the principal of the whole thing, the violation of privacy, the erosion of freedom...its legitimate patients who end up suffering because of it, as at best all this does is push more addicts to the black market and towards heroin/fentanyl, while people suffer because they are under-prescribed and under treated.
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Holybullshit
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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Study The CNS]
#27047590 - 11/19/20 03:45 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's not really about government "employees", its government policy that's the problem. Handed down by elected officials and political appointees.
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Fractal420
Psycellium



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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Holybullshit]
#27049756 - 11/21/20 12:48 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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DEA: we already started an opioid epidemic. Working on benzo epidemic right now. Just wait for all the flu-xxxx problems
Already people are withdrawing and nurses don’t even know what substances
-------------------- Dreaming of That face again. It's bright and blue and shimmering. Grinning wide And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes. Prying open MY third eye
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skOsH
Functionally dysfunctional



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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Fractal420]
#27050545 - 11/21/20 02:29 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Why do they want this information? And what information exactly? They want to know when patients are refilling their prescriptions? I don't understand why?
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Holybullshit
Stranger
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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: skOsH] 1
#27050615 - 11/21/20 03:35 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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To look for patterns that indicate diversion or abuse. It's really just a power grab, totally unnecessary, pharmacists already do this and the DEA already has all the info and tools they need to know when pharmacists aren't.
It's just going to scare pharmacists and doctors to be more strict and wary of prescribing and dispensing bupe, and as indicated in the article this has the potential to be very detrimental to patients. We need to be make obtaining bupe easier, not harder.
But in the eyes of the anti-drug zealots who run the DEA, there is no such thing as legitimate suboxone use. They don't give a fuck about the pain and and catastrophic events(like not being able to work or take care of their children) that can result from a patient going even one day without their suboxone dose.
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Barnaby
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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Holybullshit]
#27050977 - 11/21/20 06:51 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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"DEA already has all the info and tools they need to know when pharmacists aren't."
Amen to that. Tis the truth.
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skOsH
Functionally dysfunctional



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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Holybullshit]
#27053959 - 11/23/20 01:37 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Holybullshit said: To look for patterns that indicate diversion or abuse. It's really just a power grab, totally unnecessary, pharmacists already do this and the DEA already has all the info and tools they need to know when pharmacists aren't.
It's just going to scare pharmacists and doctors to be more strict and wary of prescribing and dispensing bupe, and as indicated in the article this has the potential to be very detrimental to patients. We need to be make obtaining bupe easier, not harder.
But in the eyes of the anti-drug zealots who run the DEA, there is no such thing as legitimate suboxone use. They don't give a fuck about the pain and and catastrophic events(like not being able to work or take care of their children) that can result from a patient going even one day without their suboxone dose.
That is incredibly frustrating. Suboxone was developed as the "answer" from big pharma about very high levels of pain. Now DEA wants to crack down on it? Doesn't surprise me in the least. It's none of their business, I mean, patients have the right to confidentiality, and as you said, pharmacists already do help the patients.
Definitely a power grab. I know a lot of people who take suboxone and it is what they need to be able to do everything they normally would be able to do like others can do who don't have pain troubles.
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GermanShaman
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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Camwritesgonzo]
#27054922 - 11/24/20 04:42 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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This is seriously scarly....
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Tiberjuggaligger
Galaxy Creeper

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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Holybullshit]
#27059869 - 11/27/20 09:37 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Holybullshit said: Besides the principal of the whole thing, the violation of privacy, the erosion of freedom...its legitimate patients who end up suffering because of it, as at best all this does is push more addicts to the black market and towards heroin/fentanyl, while people suffer because they are under-prescribed and under treated.
Thats the prison industrial complex working for its own best interests. They can't keep the prisons full and people on paper, paying into the system forever, if people have a prescription to shield them from persecution. Let's also not forget that felons have no voting rights.
Gotta catch them all!
--------------------
Kirk: What does God need with a starship? McCoy: Jim, what are you doing? Kirk: I'm asking a question. "God": Who is this creature? Kirk: Who am I? Don't you know? Aren't you God? Sybok: He has his doubts. "God": You doubt me? Kirk: I seek proof. McCoy: Jim! You don't ask the Almighty for his ID
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Holybullshit
Stranger
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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Tiberjuggaligger]
#27061139 - 11/28/20 06:31 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Don't I know it, I really can't understand how we started down the path of for profit prisons. You would think any reasonable person could see the insanity of creating an entire industry motivated to keep as many people possible locked up as for as long as possible...whose profit margin is also directly hampered by the services that are needed to prevent recidivism.
I mean, it's such an obviously wrong headed policy that I would think even the most die hard believers in privatization of government services would see how vile and corrupting it would be.
Some things just shouldn't be profited from. And what's worse is there is plenty of data demonstrating that for profit prisons aren't any cheaper per prisoner, and in the long run are more expensive because of higher rates of recidivism, yet now the monsters too big to be put back in the closet.
I swear the GOP has become a cult, privatization is their god, and they won't be happy until they've completely destroyed the administrative state and all the power that belongs to the people is in the hands of corporations completely free from accountability by the voters and our representatives.
Quote:
"The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself." -Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Edited by Holybullshit (11/28/20 07:39 AM)
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Fractal420
Psycellium



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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Tiberjuggaligger]
#27061143 - 11/28/20 06:37 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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This is what caused the opioid epidemic, and now the emerging benzo epidemic (I bet every city is filled with fucking fake bars with flubromazolam...) 19yos all taking “sticks” now but have never tried alprazolam. And paying like 10 bucks for a press. They call em Hulks now lol. If you asked me what a “hulk press” was I’d say it was most definitely a roll With the Hulk on it.
Chatting with some of these people -even the vendors- it is apparent they know nothing about about drugs really. The whole research erowid thing before trying something is so rare now. Just a bunch of people frying themselves on PCP/PCE analogs and roofie analogs (flu-xxx). There’s luckily still the L and MD scene and cannabis and that’s like all that’s left of safe drugs it seems? Besides plants
But holy shit these people using clam and flu-benzos at insane doses, it is inevitable that this will be picked up by media (def has started to as confiscated bars show the police what’s going on, and I asked to see a press, it was TINY and the wrong color, no way it could pass for real. But they still add the generic pill ID? Lol.
I’d actually be more okay with this if every print just said “rc benzo” lol. (Or even say “CLAM” or “FLAP”) Honesty goes a long way, really
WTF happened to harm reduction? Esp at a time when street drugs are pretty fucking dangerous. How do people not care that they are frying their brain daily with NMDA antagonists? I understand addiction but a lot of these people are not addicted to the benzos (yet), and a lot of them are like 19-21. Vendors even have to apparently send on credit sometimes so a customer doesn’t WD and it comes back to them
-------------------- Dreaming of That face again. It's bright and blue and shimmering. Grinning wide And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes. Prying open MY third eye
Edited by Fractal420 (11/28/20 06:47 AM)
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Fractal420
Psycellium



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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Fractal420]
#27061152 - 11/28/20 06:56 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
would allow the DEA to track patients by their “Number of Opiate and Buprenorphine combinations.”
If you are prescribed Bupe, and a dentist gives you some Tylenol with codeine, they will already not fill it. I mean how much further can you crack down on opioids? It’s already the case that if you get bupe you won’t get any others. It SEEMS like they wanna Specifically track down people on bupe or methadone who also get opioids, and sell one or the other (bupe is really expensive esp in its patented forms). And people who get methadone do commonly sell it for dope. Still sucks due to increased surveillance but shit it’s already like every script you get is scrutinized
Like I said above, it’s causing an entire benzo epidemic on top of opioids, for the same damn reason. No real oxy? China will send fent. No real Xanax? How bout some pressed flubro, marked as “Xanax”
ALSO my insurance doesn’t cover shit, so I have to pay in cash for things like adderall. So yes, it’s fucked in the surveillance sense too.
-------------------- Dreaming of That face again. It's bright and blue and shimmering. Grinning wide And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes. Prying open MY third eye
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Fractal420
Psycellium



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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Fractal420]
#27061156 - 11/28/20 07:03 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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https://www.workers.org/2020/11/52635/
This is all about bupe and tracking patients. It’s really fucked up. These are people trying to fucking quit. DEA is way out of bounds here
-------------------- Dreaming of That face again. It's bright and blue and shimmering. Grinning wide And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes. Prying open MY third eye
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skOsH
Functionally dysfunctional



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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Tiberjuggaligger]
#27061370 - 11/28/20 10:10 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Tiberjuggaligger said:
Quote:
Holybullshit said: Besides the principal of the whole thing, the violation of privacy, the erosion of freedom...its legitimate patients who end up suffering because of it, as at best all this does is push more addicts to the black market and towards heroin/fentanyl, while people suffer because they are under-prescribed and under treated.
Thats the prison industrial complex working for its own best interests. They can't keep the prisons full and people on paper, paying into the system forever, if people have a prescription to shield them from persecution. Let's also not forget that felons have no voting rights.
Gotta catch them all!
I have an odd theory but it feels like it is true...
I feel like the cia are the ones importing 99% of everything, and the dea do the money laundering and are bought by the cartels to make it seem like they're doing something....but they are meant to catch "big deals", even though they're in on it.
Either that or it's strictly the same thing as it was back in 1984 with crack cocaine...meaning, nothing has changed...
But they have a system, I am 100% positive on that. The gov knows what it is doing, and I bet they collaborate with whomever to get the highest payout.
We never see the dea making a bust of 1 tonne or more, ever
Yet 500 tonnes of cocaine and 500 tonnes of heroin make it into the U.S. every year (that is like, 2005 data btw, I am sure it is higher now)
And with the war in Afghanistan and the war of control of the opium fields there, I think it all comes full circle with this suboxone crackdown.
Basically put, I'm pretty sure the DEA wants to force users off of suboxone, and then they've just created tons of "criminals" who are forced to buy off the black market, whom they can then arrest and throw in jail, and this thing going on right now, is them wanting more of our data...
...our medical data, no less, and it's not even important medical data.
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: skOsH]
#27062559 - 11/29/20 08:09 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I believe in cognitive liberty, but don't literally know any users with enough self control.
If all the common drugs of addiction were cheap and over the counter -- lets' say, free -- misuse would come with a death penalty, built in.
What is an enlightened way of dealing with this?
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feevers



Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: durian_2008]
#27062575 - 11/29/20 08:22 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Legalize all drugs. Require an education course for each drug class, including alcohol, in order to obtain a license to use/purchase it legally. Use the billions saved from not fighting a war on drugs to offer effective and thorough drug education in schools, and easy access to addiction services that are actually useful and not dictated by insurance reimbursment.
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ch0ppie


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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: feevers]
#27062909 - 11/29/20 11:52 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Holybullshit
Stranger
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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: durian_2008]
#27063036 - 11/29/20 01:40 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
durian_2008 said: I believe in cognitive liberty, but don't literally know any users with enough self control.
If all the common drugs of addiction were cheap and over the counter -- lets' say, free -- misuse would come with a death penalty, built in.
What is an enlightened way of dealing with this?
90% of people who experiment with said drugs do not go on to become addicted. This isn't me making up hypothetical numbers, that's what the research says.
There are also other countries which have tried, or still have, diacetylmorphine maintenance programs where patients can basically go up as high as they want and have found that there is a dose where they plateau of their own free will.
There was a time in american history where cocaine and heroin were freely available OTC, and there were people that struggled with addiction(and treatment should be made available) but it wasn't like everyone suddenly abandoned their lives to live in the gutter or were dying left and right.
Personally, I'd just like to see them decriminalized. But if you did want to legalize and regulate, and felt compelled to regulate in a manner to limit habitual use, there is no perfect solution but quotas limiting how much one could purchase would be a start. Maybe rapid drug testing, where you can't purchase it if you are already testing positive.
But I think you'd be better off using the resources it would take to enforce such efforts to instead educate people about responsible use and treating those who do become addicted.
And think about, most of the ODs we are seeing in the opioid epidemic are either accidental, and would not occur if they were recieving a known dose of a pure drug, or suicide brought on by the crushing weight of trying to support their habit(which is a full time fucking job, believe me), the shame of their addiction, or inability to cope with WD. All things that could be solved with legalization and education.
Edited by Holybullshit (11/29/20 02:06 PM)
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Fractal420
Psycellium



Registered: 06/21/13
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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Holybullshit]
#27063978 - 11/30/20 04:50 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I somehow feel like this won’t happen, because it’s pretty damn evil and overreaching
Or I Hope at least. Cause shit pharmacy data is already scrutinized like hell. What do they wanna do, be the NSA equivalent when it comes to drugs? Xkeyscore?
There are ALREADY no real benzos on the streets for example, not from pharmacies. No opis. Not many people abuse* adderall and whatever. Bupe is Not an issue. And this would affect the whole medical industry. I don’t think anyone wants this, including doctors, including big pharma, etc
They already made it hard enough to get Any controlled drug (All classes) if ur doc And pharmacy isn’t 100% willing
This becomes more than a privacy/quality of life thing, it becomes fucking true surveillance and punishment for getting a controlled sub
-------------------- Dreaming of That face again. It's bright and blue and shimmering. Grinning wide And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes. Prying open MY third eye
Edited by Fractal420 (11/30/20 04:57 AM)
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Holybullshit
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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Fractal420]
#27064028 - 11/30/20 06:13 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't know...I would hope the incoming administration would squash it, but I'm just not sure there is a powerful enough coalition pushing back on this when it could be seen as a way of scoring points both with the law & order crowd and those looking for action on the opioid epidemic.
You are probably right, at least I hope you are. But I don't know if progressives would spend political capitol pushing back on this, centrists and conservatives I am sure love it, which would leave pressure from the rand paul types as the only ones against it. Just have to hope common sense wins the day.
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Fractal420
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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Holybullshit]
#27065880 - 12/01/20 07:24 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Don’t forget, Obama did wayyy more banning of substances than say Trump, for what it’s worth. In fact, trump never banned anything I don’t think? Maybe flavored vape juice?
But Obama and his admin banned All 8 Available 2c-x, methylone (along with mephedrone and all caths) and all the K2spice compounds. MDPV, I could go on. But because of these bans the rc industry is much more sketchy lately
Not too different than just straight china black market. Used to be like connoisseur 2c and 4ho shops. If something was too addictive, they usually wouldn’t offer it
Now the super potent opis and benzos, and PCX analogs are being used very commonly. Not so much the psychs. But PCX is usually a daily thing it seems
-------------------- Dreaming of That face again. It's bright and blue and shimmering. Grinning wide And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes. Prying open MY third eye
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Holybullshit
Stranger
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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Fractal420]
#27065901 - 12/01/20 07:48 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Obama was as centrist as they come, he knew how to whoo liberals with powerful speeches but he governed, almost strictly, as a centrist. You could say Obama was our best conservative President since Bill Clinton.
And those bans didn't begin with Obama, its not like he woke up and said I am going to ban some drugs today, they started with the DEA, Obama's only real involvement was not stopping the bans, and why would he? I highly doubt he even had any role in the review of those decisions. And they were made permanent by Congress and the Synthetic Drug Abuse Prevention Act which was part of the FDA Safety and Innovation Act of 2012...passed by a Congress controlled by the GOP, though it was largely passed by bipartisan vote the FDASIA itself wasn't controversial and outside the SDAPA had little to do with the drug war.
Can you name many/any substances that the DEA temporarily scheduled that the Trump administration overturned? How about a Congressional bill scheduling new drugs that Trump vetoed?
The only difference between Trump and Obama in that regard is one happened to be president under a wave of bannings in response to the burgeoning RC market.
People seem to have this idea that the President is a King, and that they are both responsible for everything that happens during their time in office AND has the ability to stop anything that happens during that time. While the executive branch has become more powerful than the Constitution should have ever allowed, Congress is the ultimate power of the land. And the executive branch is a sprawling bureaucracy, populated with not only career civil servants but with fingerprints from past administrations left on every facet. Even if in theory the President can intervene in most actions originating from executive branch institutions, in reality they operate pretty independently from the White House on most matters, the most influence a President exerts is from his appointees, but even they don't get to steer said organizations as an extension of themselves.
We'd be a lot better of as a democracy if people would correctly attribute the actions of our government to the responsible parties, and then lobbied/campaigned against them directly, instead of defaulting to the current President.
This is one of the reasons why nothing changes in our government, the common layperson thinks the entire government changes every time a new President is voted in. Just like how Congress always has horrible approval ratings, even though Reps/Senators are generally liked(often loved) by their own constituents...even though they vote in blocks 95% of the time.
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But I do wonder to what degree the current RC market can be directly contributed to those bans. In my mind their largest effect was to take RCs out of smoke shops and make clearnet RC companies stop shipping to the US...its not like the "sketchy" compounds you are referencing are being widely sold legally and openly in the US, like bath salts were.
For anyone already selling RCs outside the scope of the law, such as on the darknet, I can't really see that the items US legality is their main concern. After all, almost all the compounds you referenced above are still readily available on the darknet, they just aren't top sellers anymore.
I know there was a period where more obscure analogs were introduced in an attempt to skirt the law, and that mostly applied to cannabinoids and cathinones, outside of those changes in UK/international policy were just as, if not more, responsible as anything happening in the US, and that period has been over for a a while now.
Suppliers seeking a competitive advantage by introducing novel/more abuse-able compounds have been the main driver of that trend and its got nothing to do with methylone and 2c's being banned.
Bans that occured during the Obama administration have almost nothing to do with benzo/dissociative RC's and it wasn't until recently, due to pressure from the Trump administration, that China got serious about banning and enforcement of fentalogues. That's just the market responding to what people want, drugs that appeal to a wider audience, and more importantly drugs that can be abused chronically if not on a daily basis, are always going to be in higher demand...especially as the number of darknet users grows and its composition becomes more reflective of the general population. While on the supply side LEO efforts push out those less motivated by profit and without ties to organized crime.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with the premise that banning NPS's is a game of whack-a-mole and over time will lead to the distribution of more toxic and dangerous compounds...I just think you are giving the SDAPA and DEA more credit for the current make up of the RC market than they deserve.
Edited by Holybullshit (12/01/20 09:55 AM)
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durian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant



Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 16,685
Loc: Raccoon City
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Re: DEA Pursues Vast Expansion of Patient Surveillance [Re: Holybullshit]
#27066186 - 12/01/20 11:51 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't believe that taxing and regulating drugs will keep petty dictators in-check or will help those unfortunates, hellbent on self-destruction.
Forcing bums into halfway houses is basically a means of laundering subsidies and in-sourcing sweatshop laborers -- until they escape into the nearest, open field or boxcar.
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