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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #27043838 - 11/17/20 12:53 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Sherlock Shrooms said:
Does it make sense that under hydrated grains may not sterilize properly in the PC? Obviously get the moisture content right regardless but I am trying to understand something...




Yes, dry media will have a higher R value than media saturated with water.

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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #27043900 - 11/17/20 01:34 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Does a properly pasteurized Peat casing (with all the bells and whistles) have a shelf life?


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #27043938 - 11/17/20 02:05 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I used some pasteurized peat based casing material that was at least 3 weeks old and I didn't have any issues.

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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #27043998 - 11/17/20 02:42 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
I like casing cause it’s a nice pinning surface. Top layer at spawn is almost as good and easier tho.




My best grows were before I started leaving exposed grains because I read it doesn't matter. When I was scooping on a nice layer of CVG and evening it out after mixing up the spawn I dealt with better, fuller flushes and less contamination. I had no idea that it was casing at spawn I just thought it was proper procedure.

Same genetics side by side, world of difference. Won't do anything else now.


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
    #27044095 - 11/17/20 03:50 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Any of you had luck with in vitro PF tek jars?

I got half pints but they're the normal mouth size. Shroomery members sent me a ton of genetics I want to clone hunt with.

Normally I make a spore syringe and yolo it into half pint jars of grain spawning the survivors and looking for something worth cloning but I figure maybe it's time to stop that practice perhaps.

I have Melmak swabs I want to turn into spore syringes. Could I sterilize water in a small jar in the PC, swish a swab into it and rub spore off in the water in front of my flowhood then slurp the water up into a sterile syringe then skip agar by going to PF Tek or dice rolling on 50% filled half pint grain jars?


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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
    #27044222 - 11/17/20 04:49 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I prefer to top fruit cakes if i ever get a wild hair to make em


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 

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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #27044225 - 11/17/20 04:50 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Why are you making syringes? Don't you have agar?


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 

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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: tryptkaloids]
    #27044251 - 11/17/20 05:04 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I always skip agar with MS because of the genetic lottery. I want the most genetic expression I can get to find something I want to grow.

I know it's useful for cleaning up cultures but for me I don't want to gamble on the chance of losing something exceptional by leaving it behind when I transfer.

My personal genetics have all come from clones made this way. I take the shotgun approach and knock up grain jars usually. Lose some of course but the cleanest ones get spawned into a shoebox and from there I can see which genetics I want to take, looking for speed, clustering, size etc.

That's how I got my Amazonians that grow exceptional in my opinion. They're lightning fast, consistent in size for the most part, they grow healthy myc that seems fairly contam resistant and they don't seem to mind conditions being subpar.





There's some B+ in these pictures too.

If they were sporeless I'd dance a little dance. These however are prolific spore pissers. I gave some prints out and I'm hoping it performs well for others. If this was a fair world I'd send LC instead. They grew huge when I shoved a broken spawn jar into half a can of paint and cased it haha. It's in my sig.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
    #27044256 - 11/17/20 05:09 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

That makes no sense. Why not exclude everything that doesn’t colonize well as a starting point? I mean I get spores to grains attraction for some people but, if I was struggling with contams I’d be running everything past a plate.

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Invisiblesh4d0ws
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #27044270 - 11/17/20 05:22 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Agar FTW


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OfflineYeetusdeetus
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #27044274 - 11/17/20 05:26 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

How do different grains affect the turnout of clones? You’d have less losses with mss to brf cakes but idk how a clone from brf would do on rye, wheat, etc.


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Edited by Yeetusdeetus (11/17/20 05:31 PM)

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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Yeetusdeetus]
    #27044284 - 11/17/20 05:34 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Most grains perform about the same IME. Dislike corn and oats due to preferences.

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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #27044316 - 11/17/20 06:03 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
That makes no sense. Why not exclude everything that doesn’t colonize well as a starting point? I mean I get spores to grains attraction for some people but, if I was struggling with contams I’d be running everything past a plate.




Because I could be giving up something great in the transfer. What if one of those strands of mycelium I leave behind is the absolute shit?
I know it's risky and I end up dumping some jars but when I see the right fruit, a fast growing cluster then I take a sample of that to agar.

I dunno it just makes sense to me to see the genetic expression from spore to fruit to know which one I want. It worked extremely well with my Amazonians in my opinion. At the end of the day the goal is to find genetics worth cloning and I believe that the best way to do this is maximize the dice roll and THEN do agar. I can clean up the sample of the clone I want and I'll know that it can fruit, it was the fastest fruit in the tub and it had clustering.

Shotgun approach I guess, Grain is cheap, jars get cleaned and I take the shortcut tom getting my clone. Lazy as shit maybe haha.


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InvisibleLoadedFish
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
    #27044423 - 11/17/20 07:02 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)


Does this tub seem normal for 8 days after spawning? Maybe it's because I've been checking it like every hour but it seems to be slowing down growth wise and I'm nervous as shit.

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Offlinetryptkaloids
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
    #27044443 - 11/17/20 07:18 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starbones said:
Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
That makes no sense. Why not exclude everything that doesn’t colonize well as a starting point? I mean I get spores to grains attraction for some people but, if I was struggling with contams I’d be running everything past a plate.




Because I could be giving up something great in the transfer. What if one of those strands of mycelium I leave behind is the absolute shit?
I know it's risky and I end up dumping some jars but when I see the right fruit, a fast growing cluster then I take a sample of that to agar.

I dunno it just makes sense to me to see the genetic expression from spore to fruit to know which one I want. It worked extremely well with my Amazonians in my opinion. At the end of the day the goal is to find genetics worth cloning and I believe that the best way to do this is maximize the dice roll and THEN do agar. I can clean up the sample of the clone I want and I'll know that it can fruit, it was the fastest fruit in the tub and it had clustering.

Shotgun approach I guess, Grain is cheap, jars get cleaned and I take the shortcut tom getting my clone. Lazy as shit maybe haha.



You're missing out on all the spores you dump, they could have had potential, but were tossed because they never got cleaned up


--------------------
"Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage
Flowchart for Recommended plan of action.
Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms
Use the Damn search engine
After you know what you're doing, take a break 
Pick a book, Make some chips!
Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
 

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
    #27044506 - 11/17/20 07:57 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starbones said:
Because I could be giving up something great in the transfer. What if one of those strands of mycelium I leave behind is the absolute shit?





It doesn't really work that way, your reasoning is faulty. That's why it doesn't make any sense. You aren't missing anything by putting spores to agar.
Hyphae have an average diameter of 4–6 µm, any transfer that you can achieve with a scalpel will not significantly reduce or isolate the genetic material in your sample. It has very little effect on the culture and it's genetic diversity.

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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27044544 - 11/17/20 08:29 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

If you take a small square you're getting the genetics in that particular square are you not? The genetics should be incredibly diverse at this stage no?

What about the hyphae left behind and all the genetic material they carry but the square might not. Would there not be a difference in the genetics you take from one area leaving many strands of mycelium with different genetics? I may be confused on this part so I'm eager to be enlightend.

I guess my goal has always been to get as much genetic diversity fruiting as possible in a gamble that I might get the IDEAL fruit to work with.

I'll be happy if I am wrong but to me this seems like the fastest way to go from spore to clone by dice rolling on a pack of jars. I know I will probably lose some but all I need is enough for a couple shoe boxes to find the fruit I am looking for.

Like I was saying earlier that is how I found my Amazonians and the ideal mushrooms it yields.

Spores -> Grain -> Clone tissue on agar.
VS
Spores -> Agar -> clean transfer -> grain -> clone on agar

It just feels logical to me to go the gambling route is all I am saying.
The goal is a tissue sample and it just feels faster this way is all.


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
    #27044561 - 11/17/20 08:43 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

If you cut the tip of your finger off and then pcr the genetic material in that sample, would you be missing out on any genetic material present in the rest of the body?

It's not 100% the same, but for the purposes of this example its close enough.    The resolution is about the same. You would be correct if you were selecting some imperceivably small handful of hyphae, but you're not. It's like when you take a clone biopsy, place it on agar to grow out, and then take a "small" wedge from that plate. It hasn't reduced the genetic material enough to be worth worrying about or mentioning.

If it makes you happy to do it that way then by all means, I'm just addressing the accuracy of your fears.

Edited by Stipe-n Cap (11/17/20 08:51 PM)

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Invisiblesh4d0ws
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: starbones]
    #27044563 - 11/17/20 08:44 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Just sounds like a method of doing more work than is necessary to me, with increased contam rates to boot

:shrug:


Plenty of us have cultures that produce 2+ ounces per quart on the first flush and we never worried about using spores to grain to increase diversity. Agar first works well. Find cultures you like by taking clones from multipspore tubs, but you don't need to use spores > grain to accomplish that.


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: sh4d0ws]
    #27044568 - 11/17/20 08:49 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Well alright I'll give that a shot.

The difference is my finger is me. I am not a collection of germinated spore forming mycelium. If you take a sample from two different sections on the agar are you not getting differing genetics since it's a mess of germinated spores having an orgy?

I'll get some spore on agar and go that route for once. I have melmak swaps I am eager to play with.


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