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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Cube Z strain grow (cased and LC techniques) [Re: ModularMind]
    #27031539 - 11/10/20 12:17 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I brought the RH down to 96% and did more misting.  I don't want the casing to close off, and it's closing pretty fast.  To prevent it from closing off entirely, which will reduce the yield for this kind of substrate, I think fresh air and evaporation are pretty helpful.  If you use a casing, you must keep your eye on it.  A casing that closes off, is worthless, so keep that evaporation and misting going.


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OfflineGreens21
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Re: Cube Z strain grow (cased and LC techniques) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27031730 - 11/10/20 02:18 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

When you say you’re going to “turn up evaporation,” what do you mean exactly? More airflow? Opening up holes?


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Cube Z strain grow (cased and LC techniques) [Re: Greens21]
    #27031809 - 11/10/20 03:04 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Greens21 said:
When you say you’re going to “turn up evaporation,” what do you mean exactly? More airflow? Opening up holes?




I just open a small crack next to the fan on the bottom.  I might do that only for a day, though.  I don't want to go too far since the casing still needs a little more development.  I'll get you a picture tomorrow, but I've already removed the crack (it was fast to slow it down).

The casing is a balancing act, which is why after this grow I'll be trying bodhisatta's coco coir with spawn substrate in a monotub set-it-and-forget-it technique for this exact same cube strain.  I'll still use LCs in spawn bags, though.  I just won't use the casing since it's so much a pain for a species that does not require it.  I'll be curious how it compares.  If it's comparable, though, there is no doubt it's easier than this given there is no real fruiting chamber.


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Cube Z strain grow (cased and LC techniques) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27040543 - 11/15/20 01:04 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Things are progressing very well.  I've been ultrasonic misting about 1 gallon per day for the last 5 days as the casing develops.  Temperature has been maintained at 78F and RH at 100%.  Casing growth has pretty much stopped as it prepares to pin.  Here's a picture of the casing on day 10. 



Note how the surface is covered with small rhizomorphic vertical projections of mycelium evenly across the entire surface.  This is what you want to see for this kind of grow - cased manure, small addition of grain, and traditional "Martha-like" chamber (it's actually furniture wrap covered wire shelving but the same thing).

The first pins with this strain (Z) formed for me last time on day 12 to 13, so there are about 2 or 3 more days to go before we'll see the first pins.


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Cube Z strain grow (cased and LC techniques) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27040561 - 11/15/20 01:17 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I was examining the trays as I swapped their placement on the shelves and one of the two has already started to pin.  I'll wait until the pin set is closer to half complete and take some pictures for you all (probably in 48 hours).  To achieve a higher BE (like >250% BE), the entire surface must be covered with a dense set of pins.  This isn't a clone so my fingers are crossed!


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Cube Z strain grow (cased and LC techniques) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27043841 - 11/17/20 12:55 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Below is how the casing looks on day 12, the usual day pins start:



As you can see, there are several pins nearly two days ahead of schedule growing in the top-left of the tray.  Paul Stamets says the pick early pins, but I've done that and I'm not so sure that really helps yield.  I think it's another one of his myths that was never tested to be honest.  Anyway, pins that break early are often part of a multi-spore grow I think (not sure if that problem is fixed with a clone or not).  You can decide what you want to do with those early pins, but I'm leaving them alone.

Although it's kind of hard to see in the picture, the pin set looks decently dense.  I see hundreds of them, but they are still a little bit small to easily see in the picture.  It's still too early to know if this will be a great flush or not for absolute certain, but I think it'll at least be average given the pin set so far.

I'll post another picture in 48 more hours.


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Re: Cube Z strain grow (cased and LC techniques) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27043980 - 11/17/20 02:35 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Sometimes I pick the early pins but only so I can clone em


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OfflineAsuraS
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Re: Cube Z strain grow (cased and LC techniques) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #27043997 - 11/17/20 02:42 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

About picking the early pins...the thing I wonder about is how much information
gets thrown out bc it doesn't apply to cubes. Something that might apply to a broad
range of species. Casing is one example. Cubes don't need it, but a hell of
a lot of others seem to. I'm sure there are other examples.


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Cube Z strain grow (cased and LC techniques) [Re: Asura]
    #27044002 - 11/17/20 02:48 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Asura said:
About picking the early pins...the thing I wonder about is how much information
gets thrown out bc it doesn't apply to cubes. Something that might apply to a broad
range of species. Casing is one example. Cubes don't need it, but a hell of
a lot of others seem to. I'm sure there are other examples.




I know what you mean.  This grow is primarily to do biological efficiency measurements for cased manure versus non-cased coco coir tray using the same LC.  It'll be interesting to see what I find, but my guess is that they are comparable.  I guess we'll see, though.


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Re: Cube Z strain grow (cased and LC techniques) [Re: Blue Helix] * 1
    #27056526 - 11/25/20 02:11 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

any updates?


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Re: Cube Z strain grow (cased and LC techniques) [Re: lovepotion]
    #27056944 - 11/25/20 10:52 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Old school vs New cool
I'm in!


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Cube Z strain grow (cased and LC techniques) [Re: Haywire]
    #27081080 - 12/09/20 07:34 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I think the run was mostly a failure.  I think total I made 15 pounds of substrate.  But my total was only 217g which is the following BE:

dry in 15 pounds = 15*454*.35 = 2383
fresh = 217/0.07 = 3100g

BE =  3100 / 2838 * 100  = 130%

Obviously, that's just an average run, nothing special, and obviously not worth the extra work of a Martha so instead of this I have started a new thread that is going to take a different approach where I use monotubs and the super-heavy grain substrate that everyone recommends.  I am running a few monotubs.  In half of them I will use spawned coco coir and vermiculite and in the other half I am using a bulk substrate of the same coco coir, vermiculite, and rye ratios that was colonized in a spawn bag (LC to bulk) then laid in the tub. 

I really like the idea of monotubs because it's a clever simplification of old-school methods where there are no environmental controls.  I am frankly surprised cubes can take that much abuse (i.e. where one only depends on diffusion for FAE), but they obviously can as very impressive runs by bodhisatta and other expert growers have shown.  I also really like the idea of spawned coco coir (that is genius!) because you don't need to collect shit or smell it in the cooker.  BUT I absolutely hate the idea of grain spawn.  Grain spawn in little quart jars reminds me of the PF Tek really.  You actually have to dick around with rinsing grain and adding it to a dozen quart spawn jars and adding agar slices to each?  Seriously?!  That is not good.  Even with LC to the grain spawn jars would be annoying as hell because you have to soak the grain, rinse it, etc.  Anyway, if I can eliminate the super annoying grain spawn with LC direct to bulk, I think it'll be the perfect cube technique using the magic of monotubs.  It takes a little more energy for the sterilization of the bulk versus the pasteurization, but it's worth it because it's easier.  And, of course, I love LCs.

Up to this point, the LC-to-bulk monotubs look considerably better but the other spawned monotubs probably will catch up eventually.  Keep an eye out on that thread.


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OfflineHaywire
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Re: Cube Z strain grow (cased and LC techniques) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27081515 - 12/10/20 03:27 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

the best decision I ever made was to stop doing the whole grain prep.

I use wheat and cook in pressure cooker (not my AA I use for sterilization)
add hottest tap water, add grain, put on lid + rocker, heat on highest.
as soon as it starts to jiggle, turn heat down to minimum to maintain pressure. start timer for 3 minutes.
when timer is done, take pc from stove and cool under tap.

immediately open, strain the grains and toss em a bit for 20 seconds.
they come out with a little dry spot in the centre of the grains, but this is fixed in the sterilization cycle.
then I load into jars and pc for 2 hours.


that's your grain prep done in 15 minutes. I used to boil in a regular pot for 30 minutes. this works as well.

you can do this for small and large volumes of grain. I've done 1L to 4L of dry grains.


Edited by Haywire (12/10/20 03:28 AM)


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