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OfflineSource
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The Collective Consciousness And Our Shared Experience
    #2704343 - 05/20/04 03:30 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

This is sort of a half baked idea I've had floating around so I figured maybe you good folks could help me expand it...or debunk it.

I think I'll start by making some general (completely unprovable) assertions...What we call 'physical reality' is actually the cumulative, outwardly projected idea of the entire human collective consciousness and unconsciousness. The external world is what we believe it to be.

If you don't think consciousness is necessary for reality to exist, try to imagine what there would be if there was nothing there to experience it. I could also pull out one of my books on quantum mechanics to support this point...but I don't feel like it.

One might argue that in just the same way that reality cannot exist without consciousness, consciousness cannot exist without reality; However, whenever two apparently seperate things cannot exist independently from each other it is a dead giveaway that they are in fact two poles of the same phenomena. Reality is consciousness and consciousness is reality.

So what are the implications? Well it seems mankind is locked in some sort of collective nightmare. The good news is that the nightmare is not real. The world is only one step of the collective imagination away from paradise. The bad news is that in order for this paradise to become a reality, enough people have to be able to imagine it - and it isn't easy to imagine a world at peace when the collective nightmare just dropped a bomb that killed half your family.

The biggest impact you can have on the world is to cast your vote for a world of paradise into the collective lot. When you do so, you enter paradise immediately and make the rest of the world a little less nightmarish for the rest of mankind as well.

Or at least that's the way I see it...I'm still trying to pry loose from this nightmare myself.

Some say that our dreams are aspects of our unconsciousness that need to be adressed and are therefore making thier presence known to us consciously in the form of symbols. Perhaps crop circles, ufo's and the like are symbols from the collective unconsciousness of mankind calling us to realize that the dream is of our own choosing and we create our own destiny and reality.


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OfflineLoneDeranger
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Re: The Collective Consciousness And Our Shared Experience [Re: Source]
    #2704356 - 05/20/04 03:39 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I like the comparison between crop fields and collective conscious/unconcious. I'm a little tired right now to quite understand all of that perfectly. I'll get back to this tomorrow :laugh:


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: The Collective Consciousness And Our Shared Experience [Re: LoneDeranger]
    #2704372 - 05/20/04 03:46 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

i'd kind of have to agree with you. i think there are lots and lots of realities, some with consciousness, some without.

however, i do believe consciousness alters reality on a somewhat fundamental level, and by extension the unconscious

edit: perhaps dreams and crop circles are not the unconscious, but real external things that show us how utterly weak and ignorant we are compared to other beings in the universe.


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Edited by truekimbo2 (05/20/04 03:52 AM)


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Invisiblepsyphon
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Re: The Collective Consciousness And Our Shared Experience [Re: Source]
    #2704374 - 05/20/04 03:46 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Read the book The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot. You will like it.


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: The Collective Consciousness And Our Shared Experience [Re: Source]
    #2704523 - 05/20/04 05:58 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Interesting stuff...

When you say:

"What we call 'physical reality' is actually the cumulative, outwardly projected idea of the entire human collective consciousness and unconsciousness. The external world is what we believe it to be."

Do you mean just human? I think that you can't discount animcals from the equation - they are conscious too, and we did all evolve from the same patch of slime, so if humans are connected in a collective unconscious (I think they probably are) then would you say animals are? I would.

"One might argue that in just the same way that reality cannot exist without consciousness, consciousness cannot exist without reality; However, whenever two apparently seperate things cannot exist independently from each other it is a dead giveaway that they are in fact two poles of the same phenomena. Reality is consciousness and consciousness is reality."

It sure does seem pointless to have a universe with no life. Obviously, the universe is hard-wired to produce consciousness (otherwise, why would it have?). I don't hold with dualism - ie that there is a spirit and a body which are discrete from each other, am I right in inferring from that quote that you agree with me? Our consciousness seems to be far too linked with our body - physical things such as illness, drugs and beautiful things have such a huge effect on our minds. However, I'm certainly not a reductionist that holds that our minds are merely biological computers. I have no idea what the alternatives to these viewpoints are though :P

"I could also pull out one of my books on quantum mechanics to support this point...but I don't feel like it."

Heisenberg's uncertainty principle blew my mind when I read up on it. I read a bit of stuff in this area a couple years ago, but I've forgotten most of it now. It made me think a LOT about the nature of things, though.

"So what are the implications? Well it seems mankind is locked in some sort of collective nightmare. The good news is that the nightmare is not real. The world is only one step of the collective imagination away from paradise."

Not real? In what way is it not real? I mean, sure, the universe may exist in our minds, but I don't think that makes it any less real. And also, I don't think this means that there is no objective reality, it's just that the objective reality is of a different nature. Science and logic still make sense either way.

"The biggest impact you can have on the world is to cast your vote for a world of paradise into the collective lot. When you do so, you enter paradise immediately and make the rest of the world a little less nightmarish for the rest of mankind as well."

Certainly you can make things better for yourself by treating the world as a paradise. I wouldn't say that the world is a collective nightmare before people do this though, I would say that the world is entirely neutral, and some enjoy existence, while some find it a bit of a drag.

As for your last point, I've always thought that psychedelic drugs fulfil this purpose better than anything else.

Thankyou for that thought-provoking post, I hope I didn't bore you too much, my train of thought sorta got hijacked and wouldn't stop
;-)


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OfflineMuppet
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Re: The Collective Consciousness And Our Shared Experience [Re: Source]
    #2704573 - 05/20/04 06:46 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

why would you want to escape:what:



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OfflineSource
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Re: The Collective Consciousness And Our Shared Experience [Re: Source]
    #2705409 - 05/20/04 01:37 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

deafpanda,

Thanks for the feedback! It's funny you mention other plants and animals because that same thought occured to me this morning. I really don't know what to do with that...I guess this is the kind of problem that one runs into when trying to make an empirical statement about reality. Perhaps, by nature of our seemingly more expansive consciousness we, as humans, have more influence in the creation of reality (this would also imply that individuals who are more aware have a greater impact on this reality).

Yeah, I do agree with you, there is no seperation of spirit from matter - they are two sides of the same coin. Reality (manifested phenomenon) is a reflection of spirit and spirit is a reflection of reality.

When I said the nightmare is 'not real', I mean it in the sense that it is a projection of consciousness and has no substance outside of consciousness. Like a dream. And like a dream we are limited as to what we can do by our beliefs about what we can do.

Have you ever had a lucid dream? By definition a dream is lucid as soon as you realize that you are dreaming. When you make this realization in a dream two things seem to happen - one...everything becomes less dream like and more vibrantly 'real', and two... you realize that all the limitations you carried in your dream (like gravity, time and space) are not absolutes at all. You can fly.

What we call 'physical reality' is very much like a dream. If we can realize this I believe we can become lucid in our waking life in the same way we become lucid in our dreams - and with the same results.

As for science, Is science really getting a bearing on a real, objective, static reality...or is it creating its own reality as it moves along?

So long as we continue to desire to change the external world to suit our needs...I'm sticking with calling collective reality a nightmare. Maybe I'm just pessimistic, but I hear people say they are 'happy' all the time and yet they continue to search for fulfillment through forcing others to act the way they want, or buying all kinds of crap, or taking drugs, or sex, or money...

This is a nightmare!

Psychedelics certainly do a great job of showing us aspects of ourselves that we don't otherwise see and giving us some clues and alarms to wake us up, but they are entirely personal. If ufo's and crop circles really are from our collective unconscious, then they are like a shared inter-personal psychedelic session.

Thanks!


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