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Offlinemorrowasted
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Infant Antibiotic Exposure is significantly associated with several childhood-onset health conditions, including autism, asthma.
    #27042736 - 11/16/20 07:01 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(20)30785-0/fulltext


says macrolides are associated with overweight and asthma, sulfonamides with overweight in boys, cephalosporins with autism and food allergies, and penicillins with a number of things depending on sex

a few benefits associated with them though- reduced risk of learning disabilities and such, depending on the specific type and sex

interesting that the difference in effect between sexes is so striking.

men and women have different immune systems


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Offlinegopher
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Re: Infant Antibiotic Exposure is significantly associated with several childhood-onset health conditions, including autism, ... [Re: morrowasted]
    #27042757 - 11/16/20 07:14 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

could their be some merit to the anti-vaxxers autism claims then?


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Infant Antibiotic Exposure is significantly associated with several childhood-onset health conditions, including autism, ... [Re: gopher]
    #27042772 - 11/16/20 07:24 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

gopher said:
could their be some merit to the anti-vaxxers autism claims then?



Are you claiming that the infections themselves protect against autism? Lol, no, i don't think so.

I think the suspicion is that commensal bacteria in the body play a vital role in early life development and that antibiotics kill them off which interferes with that development. Especially in the case of asthma and food allergies. typically the commensal bacteria result in a tolerogenetic effect, you get rid of them and immune systems problem can happen. in the case of autism maybe the immune system plays a role or maybe the drugs themselves just have neurotoxic effects during critical developmental periods


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Infant Antibiotic Exposure is significantly associated with several childhood-onset health conditions, including autism, ... [Re: gopher]
    #27042809 - 11/16/20 07:49 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

gopher said:
could their be some merit to the anti-vaxxers autism claims then?



Autism is a genetic condition that can be detected in vitro. It is not caused by anything that happens to children after they are born. Commonly autistic symptoms are not realised by parents until their child does not develop as expected, after which immunisation, infant infections, and many other things may have occurred.

Correlation does not imply causation.

I read through the study and it appears to be an exercise in correlation. There is nothing to say that the childhood illnesses themselves, that required treatment with antibiotics, were not the cause of the later illness. Like who would have thought that a poorly baby would be more likely to grow to be a poorly child?  :rolleyes:. Seem likely to anyone else? Rather than the cause of being poorly the treatment that stopped them dying as infants.

Science is such a fucking sham sometimes these days.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Infant Antibiotic Exposure is significantly associated with several childhood-onset health conditions, including autism, ... [Re: Northerner]
    #27042816 - 11/16/20 07:54 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Autism is a genetic condition that can be detected in vitro.


Huh???  first of all I'm fairly certain you meant to say in utero and second of all, since when? must have happened sometime in the last few hours :rofl:


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Infant Antibiotic Exposure is significantly associated with several childhood-onset health conditions, including autism, ... [Re: gopher]
    #27042823 - 11/16/20 07:58 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

gopher said:
could their be some merit to the anti-vaxxers autism claims then?




vaccines and antibiotics are not at all the same thing, so I should think no


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Offlinegopher
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Re: Infant Antibiotic Exposure is significantly associated with several childhood-onset health conditions, including autism, ... [Re: morrowasted]
    #27042825 - 11/16/20 07:58 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

in vitro is like a petri dish right?


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Infant Antibiotic Exposure is significantly associated with several childhood-onset health conditions, including autism, ... [Re: gopher]
    #27042828 - 11/16/20 08:00 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

gopher said:
in vitro is like a petri dish right?



basically. it literally means "in glass". outside of the whole organism in some kind of other receptacle.


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Infant Antibiotic Exposure is significantly associated with several childhood-onset health conditions, including autism, ... [Re: morrowasted]
    #27042862 - 11/16/20 08:23 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Ah okay, it's just markers and disposition that can be detected. There's no definitive test per se for autism, I had down syndrome confused with it.

I read the final summary in full this time and it also came with the same conclusion as me, that the results do not indicate causation. That it may well be other factors, but it's interesting nonetheless.

Sorry to rant in your thread man.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Infant Antibiotic Exposure is significantly associated with several childhood-onset health conditions, including autism, ... [Re: Northerner]
    #27042879 - 11/16/20 08:31 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Obviously there is no causative relationship established here, it isn't a controlled trial. The data is still reasonably compelling. We've never done controlled trials to "prove" that cigarettes "cause" cancer, but we have extremely compelling correlational data to indicate that it's the case.


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Infant Antibiotic Exposure is significantly associated with several childhood-onset health conditions, including autism, ... [Re: morrowasted]
    #27042920 - 11/16/20 08:50 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

There's no control group of untreated infant infections in the study though to show whether or not childhood disease could be causal of health issues later on, whereas there's plenty of never smokers.

Infant mortality from infections used to be a significant issue, in fact mortality from infections in general was a common way to go. Antibiotics have ended that.

That different antibiotics correlated with different possible conditions in the study also correlates with what those antibiotics were used for. Different classes of antibiotics are used against different infections.

I'm not saying that's what it is either, just pointing out another thing the study could correlate.


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Infant Antibiotic Exposure is significantly associated with several childhood-onset health conditions, including autism, ... [Re: Northerner]
    #27042949 - 11/16/20 08:59 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

It is interesting though. Antibiotics are pretty intense things and just kill everything in their path. If it wasn't life or death (which is often the case with infant bacterial infection) I would definitely not give them to a child of mine.


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Offlinegopher
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Re: Infant Antibiotic Exposure is significantly associated with several childhood-onset health conditions, including autism, ... [Re: Northerner]
    #27042960 - 11/16/20 09:03 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

they made me take antibiotics after my surgery, they didnt even tell me till after they pumped them into me, I pulled out my IV and asked to go home, and they then told me I had to put the IV in and I cant go home till tomorrow cause they have to give me antibiotics for like 24 hours, I didnt think of taking probiotics after, but I probably should have


--------------------
For most of the normies out there, an operating system is just a bootloader for Google Chrome.

Since Disney has obtained tremendous value from the public domain, knows how important the public domain is, and is firmly determined to never contribute anything to it.

My pronouns are He and Him, and my adjectives are Fat and Jazzy

:kratom:


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Infant Antibiotic Exposure is significantly associated with several childhood-onset health conditions, including autism, ... [Re: gopher]
    #27042984 - 11/16/20 09:16 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah it's heavy stuff gopher, I can tell why you didn't want prophylactic antibiotics.

I had acute bacterial prostatitis once and had to take a 6 week course of antibiotics to get over it. Was truly awful, better than being eaten alive starting at my prostate though. I don't know much it has effected me coming forward but it sure beats being dying in agony.


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OfflineYokal
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Re: Infant Antibiotic Exposure is significantly associated with several childhood-onset health conditions, including autism, ... [Re: Northerner]
    #27044613 - 11/17/20 09:21 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

If you take your kud to the doctor for every nook and bump of course theyll end up with that diagnosis


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OfflinePsion
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Re: Infant Antibiotic Exposure is significantly associated with several childhood-onset health conditions, including autism, ... [Re: Yokal] * 1
    #27044635 - 11/17/20 09:44 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

antibiotics are, as the name implies, anti- bacteria. they kill a broad range of bacteria in your body. think of them as a poison gas cloud that destroys EVERY little bacterium they can get their nasty poison particles on when you injest it. problem is, it doesn't discriminate from friend or foe. your healthy gut flora get wiped out along with the bad nasty bacteria as well, which basically means it's a hard reset for your body, leaving you with a hope and a prayer that the good bacteria reestablish themselves before the bad ones move in. (and that you aren't missing key good bacteria after the reset.)

problem is, some bacteria tend to resist this antibiotic poison - and the survivors now pass this resistance on, living on in your gut. which means you can develop resistance to that antibiotic over time, if you say, get a nasty staph infection and don't follow the directions. "oh, i feel fine, i won't bother taking the last 5 days of antibiotic, i don't need it." BAD. IDEA. those last 5 days are to help wipe out any last survivors of that infection, to ensure that no resistant staph bacteria survive and multiply, leaving you with a rebound of staph and one less option to kill it off.

oh, and the viruses? they're not bacteria. antibiotics do absolutely nothing to em, they're just laughing at it. same as any fungi/yeast you might have inside you.

vaccines, on the other hand, are essentially like handing dead/disabled corpses of a microbe or enemy intell of the same to your bodies soldiers and saying "here. see this? this is a BAD THINGIE. KILL THIS BAD THINGIE.", causing the bodies defenses to rise up and create antibodies against that virus/bacteria/microbe. it's very specific to said microbe, and if it evolves too much, it can evolve too much to the point the body no longer recognizes it as a threat again, rendering a vaccine useless. (hence why flu vaccines are only partly effective - there's hundreds of flu strains. you'd need a supervaccine encompassing all these different strains of flu to effectively eliminate influenza from earth - possible but not very easy. instead they just predict which flu strains are likely to circulate each year and add those to the flu shot.)

td;lr: anti-vaxxers have no leg to stand on here with this revelation. vaccines are incredibly specific to a single microbe. they do not harm the gut flora like antibiotics do.


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Infant Antibiotic Exposure is significantly associated with several childhood-onset health conditions, including autism, ... [Re: Psion]
    #27045481 - 11/18/20 12:32 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

yay i might get some money out of this

i was diagnosed autistic and had severe asthma as a child but i still feel the tism


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Offlinelowbrow
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Re: Infant Antibiotic Exposure is significantly associated with several childhood-onset health conditions, including autism, ... [Re: gopher]
    #27045484 - 11/18/20 12:36 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

The rate of autism went up since the Penn and Teller episode of Bullshit was first aired.  What do want to bet it corresponds with childhood vaccination percentages?


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Inf [Re: morrowasted]
    #27045594 - 11/18/20 01:54 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:


a few benefits associated with them though- reduced risk of learning disabilities and such, depending on the specific type and sex






Along with not dying from common bacterial infections as well.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Inf [Re: badchad]
    #27045649 - 11/18/20 02:28 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

ima get so rich off this penicillin guy


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