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OfflineGreens21
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Re: When should I introduce fruiting conditions? [Re: CableTV]
    #27042683 - 11/16/20 06:28 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah idk, I guess this is why I choose pasteurization. Obviously some people have had success with that method but I’ve never had my pasteurized coir contaminate. Is there any way to allow for field capacity? I only put 4 quarts of water to one brick of coir and I still have to squeeze out some of it. I feel like that would lead to a lot of excess water in the substrate


--------------------
I've been trying to justify you

In the end I will just defy you







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InvisibleJosex
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Re: When should I introduce fruiting conditions? [Re: Greens21]
    #27042706 - 11/16/20 06:39 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

You don't have to pasteurize coir, nor are you gonna see 20% better results from doing that. Coir just doesn't give a damn what you do to it, nor does myc.

Pasteurizing coir is useless because it doesn't have the beneficial bacteria that we seek to keep alive by pasteurizing, nor does it harbor harmful organism.

If you spawn grain to coir and it takes 3 weeks to colonize you can be sure is toast or you're keeping it near freezing temps. 5 days is the norm, 7 days Max.

Greenhouses/Marthas won't give ya 20% better results than monotubs. Monotubs are much easier to dial in, less costly and can put out killer flushes.

It's fine you want to take the complicated route for no reason, but new growers don't need any of that.


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OfflineCableTV
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Re: When should I introduce fruiting conditions? [Re: Josex]
    #27042719 - 11/16/20 06:45 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

i have a tub right now thats still colonizing and ive had it for 6 weeks lol. Lots of other have contamed but this one is still slowly colonizing. Its less than a 1/5 ratio for sure


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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: When should I introduce fruiting conditions? [Re: Greens21]
    #27042723 - 11/16/20 06:49 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Greens21 said:
Is there any way to allow for field capacity? I only put 4 quarts of water to one brick of coir and I still have to squeeze out some of it. I feel like that would lead to a lot of excess water in the substrate



There's a ratio of ml:Grams of coir floating around, but after making it so many times i know if I take an eco brick and add roughly a gallon it's right around field capacity with little squeezing or adding.

I don't need to parrot Josex on the pasteurize thing. It's not a problem, just unnecessary 99% of the time.


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OfflineGreens21
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Re: When should I introduce fruiting conditions? [Re: LtLurker]
    #27042728 - 11/16/20 06:55 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I’d be happy to challenge any grower here to a competitive grow.

MS syringe of the same variety from the same supplier (I’m not looking to compete to see who has a better clone, the crapshoot of MS makes it fair either way). I’ll pasteurize my coir, you don’t. I’ll use my greenhouse, you use your monotub. Let’s see if better methods don’t actually produce better results, both in terms of speed and yield.

The reality is that people are simply satisfied with the yields they get from their methods, but it doesn’t mean they’re the best. My greenhouse can get 50x the FAE while maintaining constant 99% humidity, two things that will never happen in a monotub, and will absolutely improve results.


--------------------
I've been trying to justify you

In the end I will just defy you







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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: When should I introduce fruiting conditions? [Re: Greens21]
    #27042737 - 11/16/20 07:01 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

A. It's not a competitive sport.

B. Compare MS grows? That's a silly and ineffective idea. You'd have to have the same consistent clone at least.

C. I have pasteurized coir, because it was crappy gardening coir and had so much other organics in it it would contam out without it(that 1% of the time).

D. You can't grow in 99% humidity because water wouldn't evaporate to encourage pinning.

E. IDK how you can even quantify FAE. I guess it has a "rate" but all you need to do is strike a balance between moisture and fae so it doesn't dry out or stay saturated.

F. The best way to increase yields is get good at sterile tek, build up your eye for maintaining a surface, and get yourself a good producing clone. Not fancy contraptions.


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: When should I introduce fruiting conditions? [Re: Greens21] * 1
    #27042746 - 11/16/20 07:05 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Greens21 said:
I’d be happy to challenge any grower here to a competitive grow.

MS syringe of the same variety from the same supplier (I’m not looking to compete to see who has a better clone, the crapshoot of MS makes it fair either way). I’ll pasteurize my coir, you don’t. I’ll use my greenhouse, you use your monotub. Let’s see if better methods don’t actually produce better results, both in terms of speed and yield.

The reality is that people are simply satisfied with the yields they get from their methods, but it doesn’t mean they’re the best. My greenhouse can get 50x the FAE while maintaining constant 99% humidity, two things that will never happen in a monotub, and will absolutely improve results.




Ok so you're basically saying people who don't pasteurize their coir and don't use Marthas are simply half-assing things and are content with mediocre results?

Please, just visit the thread "Post your cultuvation picture of the day" and take a look at the killer grows people have been posting just today.

I don't need a challenge, just show me your pics and I'll show you mine if you want.

I just hope the grows in your signature aren't what you consider a good grow, are they?


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OfflineGreens21
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Re: When should I introduce fruiting conditions? [Re: Josex]
    #27042760 - 11/16/20 07:17 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Those are pics from my very first grow 13 years ago, I don’t take pics of my grows anymore.

And sure, people have great results using simpler methods, but that doesn’t mean their results wouldn’t be better if they used better methods. But, they’re satisfied with the results that they get, so why would they do something more complicated if they’re already happy? I’m not that type of grower, I’d rather put in 10% more time and get 20% better results, as I said earlier. I don’t keep grows going year-round, I grow once a year, so yes, I make sure to maximize everything. If I had another harvest just around the corner, sure, I’d probably be fine with 80% too.


--------------------
I've been trying to justify you

In the end I will just defy you







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InvisibleJosex
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Re: When should I introduce fruiting conditions? [Re: Greens21]
    #27042763 - 11/16/20 07:20 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

How convenient you don't take pics anymore.

I don't have anything more to add or argue, let OP decide who to listen to.


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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: When should I introduce fruiting conditions? [Re: Greens21]
    #27042766 - 11/16/20 07:20 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

:justno:


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Invisiblemaxmush
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Re: When should I introduce fruiting conditions? [Re: Josex]
    #27042774 - 11/16/20 07:26 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Josex said:
You don't have to pasteurize coir, nor are you gonna see 20% better results from doing that. Coir just doesn't give a damn what you do to it, nor does myc.

Pasteurizing coir is useless because it doesn't have the beneficial bacteria that we seek to keep alive by pasteurizing, nor does it harbor harmful organism.

If you spawn grain to coir and it takes 3 weeks to colonize you can be sure is toast or you're keeping it near freezing temps. 5 days is the norm, 7 days Max.

Greenhouses/Marthas won't give ya 20% better results than monotubs. Monotubs are much easier to dial in, less costly and can put out killer flushes.

It's fine you want to take the complicated route for no reason, but new growers don't need any of that.




What he said :goodluck:


--------------------
Disclaimer: all information presented is intended for educational purposes only. All photos are only representations and not directly from the user.


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Invisiblemaxmush
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Re: When should I introduce fruiting conditions? [Re: LtLurker]
    #27042789 - 11/16/20 07:33 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LtLurker said:
A. It's not a competitive sport.

B. Compare MS grows? That's a silly and ineffective idea. You'd have to have the same consistent clone at least.

C. I have pasteurized coir, because it was crappy gardening coir and had so much other organics in it it would contam out without it(that 1% of the time).

D. You can't grow in 99% humidity because water wouldn't evaporate to encourage pinning.

E. IDK how you can even quantify FAE. I guess it has a "rate" but all you need to do is strike a balance between moisture and fae so it doesn't dry out or stay saturated.

F. The best way to increase yields is get good at sterile tek, build up your eye for maintaining a surface, and get yourself a good producing clone. Not fancy contraptions.




And this...

I recommend listening to solid advice. We are all here to learn, not condemn.


--------------------
Disclaimer: all information presented is intended for educational purposes only. All photos are only representations and not directly from the user.


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OfflineGreens21
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Re: When should I introduce fruiting conditions? [Re: maxmush]
    #27042808 - 11/16/20 07:49 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

A. It doesn’t have to be but it can be, why not? If the goal is to find the best methods why wouldn’t you make them compete against each other?

B. Agreed that comparing the same clone would be better, but it’s impractical. I don’t take pics of my grows for safety purposes, I’m sure you can understand I’m also not comfortable giving out my address or sending active shrooms through the mail.

C. Pasteurizing both defends against contams and allows for a symbiotic relationship between healthy bacteria and mycelium. Idk who got the idea that coir doesn’t contain healthy or unhealthy bacteria, literally everything on the planet that isn’t sterile has both.

D. Strange, I guess you should tell that to the shrooms that grow in 99% humidity in my greenhouse

E. FAE is about more than regulating surface moisture. Mycelium produces co2 which slows growth. Exchanging that co2 for oxygen encourages growth. I don’t understand how you couldn’t understand that fanning a tub with a lid twice a day isn’t quantifiably less fresh air exchange than having a fan blow fresh air directly into the tub in 3 second intervals for 15 minutes every two hours 24 hours a day. This prevents even the tiniest bit of co2 buildup at the surface level and is greatly beneficial to yield

F. Obviously improving your methods will improve your yields, but it doesn’t mean that the method can’t be further improved


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I've been trying to justify you

In the end I will just defy you







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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: When should I introduce fruiting conditions? [Re: Greens21]
    #27042833 - 11/16/20 08:03 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Dude you're ridiculous and half that comment is just wrong and misinformed. Totally makes sense that you maybe grow once a year and happy with your tek and what you think you know. It makes zero sense you seem to think you're an expert when you only grow once a year and clearly haven't read shit since you learned initially.

I'm not gonna fill this thread up with bickering anymore and let op make his choices and ask his questions. Good luck.


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OfflineGreens21
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Re: When should I introduce fruiting conditions? [Re: LtLurker] * 1
    #27042853 - 11/16/20 08:17 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, I’m wrong about everything which is why I produce better grows than the vast majority of what I see posted here. My MS grows have pinsets and yields that rival a lot of clone grows I see here, and obviously my clone grows are better than that. Guy thinks he learned more in two years of growing than I’ve learned in 13. You’ve learned teks that work well for you and you’re happy with, but that doesn’t make me wrong about anything.

I never claimed to be an expert but I do know a lot about one particular growing method. And I grow once a year these days. It wasn’t always like that, I have many grows under my belt.


--------------------
I've been trying to justify you

In the end I will just defy you







Edited by Greens21 (11/16/20 08:25 PM)


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: When should I introduce fruiting conditions? [Re: Greens21]
    #27042866 - 11/16/20 08:25 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Greens21 said:
Yeah, I’m wrong about everything which is why I produce better grows than the vast majority of what I see posted here. My MS grows have pinsets and yields that rival a lot of clone grows I see here, and obviously my clone grows are better than that. Guy thinks he learned more in two years of growing than I’ve learned in 13. You’ve learned teks that work well for you and you’re happy with, but that doesn’t make me wrong about anything.





Hey, you're challenging everybody and saying your shit is the best but then you said,

Quote:

Geen21 said:

Those are pics from my very first grow 13 years ago, I don’t take pics of my grows anymore.




I hope you realize nobody is going to take you seriously at this point and idk who you're trying to convince.

I really don't know how I managed to pull these grows without a Martha and without pasteurizing my coir, 



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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: When should I introduce fruiting conditions? [Re: Greens21]
    #27042878 - 11/16/20 08:30 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

co2 doesn't build up unless a container is air tight. Any fae prevents suffocation. That's like some weird 90's- early 2000's misconception to justify fanning(which isn't current practice anymore).

Your martha's not 99% humidity, your hygrometer isn't reading properly(or you're lying). Any commercial grow or large enough tent with controls has on/off set in a way for the humidity to drop for evaporation, then raises again. 100% humidity is a puddle, 99% is too dense for efficient evaporation. If you get growth in 99%, it's not gonna be consistent canopies.

Still sounds like you stopped learning when you first got a tek down. Cause your just regurgitating the same debunked things a lot of newbs hear from older books and sources.

Basic AF top fruited cake. Yielded ~1/2 oz.


Edited by LtLurker (11/16/20 08:33 PM)


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OfflineGreens21
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Re: When should I introduce fruiting conditions? [Re: Josex]
    #27042880 - 11/16/20 08:33 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Sure, I don’t blame anyone for not believing me, but that doesn’t make me wrong.

And I never said people couldn’t have successful grows using simpler teks, I said they could have better grows with more complicated teks. I honestly don’t even understand why anyone would be offended by that. A monotub produces very well in relation to the amount of work you have to put in, but that doesn’t mean that you couldn’t produce better in a properly setup greenhouse.

Like, genuinely, that’s not meant to be an attack on anyone but people are getting so riled up.


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I've been trying to justify you

In the end I will just defy you







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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: When should I introduce fruiting conditions? [Re: Greens21]
    #27042888 - 11/16/20 08:37 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Greens21 said:
Like, genuinely, that’s not meant to be an attack on anyone but people are getting so riled up.



it's not personal. This started cause you tried to claim pasteurized coir is superior. That's misinformation, people will correct you so the op and other readers know what the deal is. Then it segwayed into all this martha is superior stuff.


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OfflineGreens21
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Re: When should I introduce fruiting conditions? [Re: Greens21]
    #27042891 - 11/16/20 08:37 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


Any commercial grow or large enough tent with controls has on/off set in a way for the humidity to drop for evaporation, then raises again




Maybe you missed the part where I said a fan blows directly into the tub at three second intervals for 15 minutes at a time 24 hours a day. That’s when the evaporation happens. My surfaces remain moist with no puddles and my analog hygrometer reads 99% humidity for the remaining hour and 45 minutes out of every two hour period.

Quote:


co2 doesn't build up unless a container is air tight. Any fae prevents suffocation




I’m not talking about suffocation. The co2 levels at the surface of your substrate are absolutely higher than they are above, or outside of your tub. There can easily be enough co2 to impact growth rates without building up to a toxic level


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I've been trying to justify you

In the end I will just defy you







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