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EagerNoob42
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"Rolling"(wrapping) cakes in coir rope/twine? 🤷
#27042203 - 11/16/20 12:46 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Disclaimer: my username clearly and unabashedly shows my lack of/desire for knowledge on all things mycology.
I'm on my second PF grow now, but have been gobbling up info on all things bulk and agar for a while now.
In reading about coir, it got me wondering if it could be used for rolling cakes., so i hit the trusty search engine and found some relatively "recent", i.e. "not 10-20 years old" threads where Pasty and Faht chimed in (as well as Logical Chaos and RR IIRC) Saying it was definitely doable, but that there are difficulties to making it stick.
They recommended just burying in coir/verm and casing for the most part because of this, and fruiting in a shoebox. (also the classic cake to bulk method)
This got me to thinking firstly, "what if you bound the coir to the cake with hemp twine", which I quickly abandoned once I realized there was probably COIR twine.
A quick google shows its a thing, so I'm wondering if it would be a good experiment to simply gently and loosely wind some wet coir rope around and around a pf cake like a nice coiled casing, and fruited in an SGFC?
Seems like it would greatly increase surface area/evaporation/FAE compared to burying and casing cakes, while greatly increasing surface humidity compared to rolling in verm or loose coir.
Again, I'm not a moron, but I'm a kindergartener here, so please be nice and if this is a dumb idea that's not even worth trying, please help me understand why instead of just brushing it off and saying something like "don't try to reinvent the wheel with your level of experience. Stick to the teks."
I promise I'm absolutely sticking to the teks for the forseeable future, and I don't even have coir and my cakes are already rolled in verm and waiting to pin, but I can't help my insatiable curiosity and was curious what the wizards here think.
(Seriously, I spent hours going through the novelty grows yesterday and some of y'all *cough*RR*cough* are fucking alchemists)
PS, I'm familiar enough with spawning cakes to bulk, and I'm not asking about that tek, I'm specifically wondering about the potential efficacy of using coir rope in place of a verm roll.
✌😁🤘
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Greens21
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Re: "Rolling"(wrapping) cakes in coir rope/twine? 🤷 [Re: EagerNoob42]
#27042213 - 11/16/20 12:56 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you want to experiment then go for it, and log your results, but idk why you would go through all that work hoping to make a slight improvement to a meagerly producing method when you could just spawn the cakes to coir which has been proven time and again to produce much more than cakes
-------------------- I've been trying to justify you In the end I will just defy you
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EagerNoob42
Trying my best


Registered: 09/07/20
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Re: "Rolling"(wrapping) cakes in coir rope/twine? 🤷 [Re: Greens21]
#27042226 - 11/16/20 01:15 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Again, I knew that answer was coming, which is why I specifically said that's not what I was asking about. I'm fully aware that spawning to bulk produces more fruit than the PF method, but that's not relevant to the post at all.
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EagerNoob42
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Registered: 09/07/20
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Re: "Rolling"(wrapping) cakes in coir rope/twine? 🤷 [Re: EagerNoob42]
#27042230 - 11/16/20 01:17 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
EagerNoob42 said: Again, I knew that answer was coming, which is why I specifically said that's not what I was asking about. I'm fully aware that spawning to bulk produces more fruit than the PF method, but that's not relevant to the post at all.
Upon re-reading that, I may have come off as rude, and I apologize. Ijust knew that answer was coming regardless of its relevence and got annoyed. Genuinely sorry though, wasn't my intention.
Edited by EagerNoob42 (11/16/20 01:27 PM)
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Greens21
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Re: "Rolling"(wrapping) cakes in coir rope/twine? 🤷 [Re: EagerNoob42]
#27042273 - 11/16/20 01:45 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I guess I’m more asking why you want to do it? If you’re just curious by nature then give it a go and let us know what happens, but if you’re looking to do it in order to improve your grows (which is how I interpret anyone asking for advice) then I just don’t understand
-------------------- I've been trying to justify you In the end I will just defy you
Edited by Greens21 (11/16/20 01:51 PM)
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LtLurker
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Re: "Rolling"(wrapping) cakes in coir rope/twine? 🤷 [Re: Greens21]
#27042355 - 11/16/20 02:42 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Search for casing cakes or cased cakes. I know people have done it, i can't recall the results being significantly better than normal cakes. It's just for surface conditions for cubes, so if you can maintain a regular cake fine then I don't think it's gonna make much difference.
Coir twine though, looks tightly compressed. Myc may have a hard time penetrating it. Probably not the best thing to attempt casing with.
"Seems like it would greatly increase surface area/evaporation/FAE compared to burying and casing cakes, while greatly increasing surface humidity compared to rolling in verm or loose coir." I don't see how it's more surface area, and i think it would restricting fae cause myc can easily colonize some verm.
Edited by LtLurker (11/16/20 03:09 PM)
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tryptkaloids
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Re: "Rolling"(wrapping) cakes in coir rope/twine? 🤷 [Re: LtLurker]
#27042392 - 11/16/20 03:12 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Worth an attempt even if its simply for the novelty, as stated its not going to increase results, but It might make a sgfc a little more forgiving
-------------------- "Remember, kids, the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down" -adam savage Flowchart for Recommended plan of action. Learn the tried and true way to grow mushrooms Use the Damn search engine After you know what you're doing, take a break Pick a book, Make some chips! Josex said:Don't take the site seriously bro, ain't worth it.
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Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
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Re: "Rolling"(wrapping) cakes in coir rope/twine? 🤷 [Re: EagerNoob42]
#27042741 - 11/16/20 07:02 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Jesus has no one seen pics of my cakes that I post all the time? They're ALL coated in coir and it works like a charm. 
Quote:
Greens21 said: a meagerly producing method
Huh? Maybe check out the pics in my sig or at least have a successful cake grow first before commenting on how it sucks?  Here is how it looks when I harvest around 8 half pint cakes
 
Quote:
EagerNoob42 said: Again, I knew that answer was coming, which is why I specifically said that's not what I was asking about. I'm fully aware that spawning to bulk produces more fruit than the PF method, but that's not relevant to the post at all.
Yes dude it sure can be frustrating and irritating as hell when a grower asks about how to grow cskes and he gets an answer that's about how to grow bulk but not to worry here's a very specific post in relation to your inquiry in the OP.
So, coating cskes in coir is actually very easy. Takes a tad more time than rolling them in dry verm but it's well worth it what you'll have to do to make it work is to just moosten the coir more before applying in to the cakes. Normally hydrated coir doesn't stick to the cskes at all and falls off very easily as you've noticed I'm sure, but give it a try following my advice and see how better it works. There are several advantages of citing in moist coir, one of them being that your cakes will be much better protected from too fast evaporation if you're using a SGFC and if you're using a Water Tub you won't have to mist at all gl
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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LtLurker
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Re: "Rolling"(wrapping) cakes in coir rope/twine? 🤷 [Re: Mateja]
#27042745 - 11/16/20 07:05 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sorry homey. I have been away for a bit and haven't had tabs on everyone's projects, i just recall seeing cased cakes. Think last i saw from you was the Humidity chamber.
This dude was talking about coir twine though. Like wrapping string around a cake? It sounds a bit different than typical coir casing.
Edited by LtLurker (11/16/20 07:07 PM)
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Greens21
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Re: "Rolling"(wrapping) cakes in coir rope/twine? 🤷 [Re: Mateja] 1
#27042754 - 11/16/20 07:11 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mateah said: Jesus has no one seen pics of my cakes that I post all the time? They're ALL coated in coir and it works like a charm. 
Quote:
Greens21 said: a meagerly producing method
Huh? Maybe check out the pics in my sig or at least have a successful cake grow first before commenting on how it sucks?  Here is how it looks when I harvest around 8 half pint cakes
 
Thank you for proving my point. That is pretty much a best case scenario for cakes and is a meager harvest. Compare those 8 pint cakes to 8 pints of grain spawned to 8 quarts of coir if you’re unsure of what I mean. Yes, cakes produce meager harvests
-------------------- I've been trying to justify you In the end I will just defy you
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Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
Loc: Here
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Re: "Rolling"(wrapping) cakes in coir rope/twine? 🤷 [Re: LtLurker]
#27042773 - 11/16/20 07:25 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Greens21 said:
Quote:
Mateah said: Jesus has no one seen pics of my cakes that I post all the time? They're ALL coated in coir and it works like a charm. 
Quote:
Greens21 said: a meagerly producing method
Huh? Maybe check out the pics in my sig or at least have a successful cake grow first before commenting on how it sucks?  Here is how it looks when I harvest around 8 half pint cakes
 
Thank you for proving my point. That is pretty much a best case scenario for cakes and is a meager harvest. Compare those 8 pint cakes to 8 pints of grain spawned to 8 quarts of coir if you’re unsure of what I mean. Yes, cakes produce meager harvests

Idk if you're just butthurt that I called you out on posting nonsense or if you really think you're making some kind of relevant point here?
One 1/2 pint cake contains around 60g of dry BRF and a qt jar of rye contains around 300g of dry rye. Trust me you don't want to get into discussing BE comparisons between bulk substrates and cakes. And if you want to be fair in your statement why don't you compare the yield between a cake and two table spoons of grain spawned? You don't seem to know anything about the efficiency of 'meagerly producing methods'
Edited by Mateja (11/16/20 07:28 PM)
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Greens21
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Re: "Rolling"(wrapping) cakes in coir rope/twine? 🤷 [Re: Mateja]
#27042797 - 11/16/20 07:36 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Who cares what BE you get? You spent the money on the materials, you spent the time producing the grow and you dedicated the space to make it all happen, and you produced less than someone who did all the same things but with better producing methods
-------------------- I've been trying to justify you In the end I will just defy you
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Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
Posts: 7,948
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Re: "Rolling"(wrapping) cakes in coir rope/twine? 🤷 [Re: Greens21]
#27042804 - 11/16/20 07:47 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've actually never cared to calculate BE for any of my grows I don't just don't think BE is all that important to be honest. What I will say tho is that when I'm fruiting cakes and it's near harvest time, standing above the tub looking straight down the fruits fill up the entire tu. To the point that you can't even see the substrates you just see the fruits thus looking more or less exactly like a full canopy bulk substrate from the above perspective. So with that said it should be perfectly clear to anyone that you can grow a tub full of mushrooms wall to wall using the bulk method OR using the PfTek, so that kind of contradicts your statement that you somehow can not grow tubs full of mushrooms using cakes?
Listen man, I'm not trying to have an argument with you here I'm simply saying that your post about 'meagerly producing method' is extremely misleading to say the least, andnof course also very irrelevant in that case. Have a nice day
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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Greens21
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Re: "Rolling"(wrapping) cakes in coir rope/twine? 🤷 [Re: Mateja]
#27042818 - 11/16/20 07:56 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ok, how many wall to wall flushes do you get out of your cakes? How does the mass of each fruit compare? All I know is that you showed me a pic of a harvest from 8 pints of BRF and, while it’s a great harvest for cakes, it looks significantly smaller than a first flush from a tub I’d make with 8 pints of grain spawned to coir. That’s all I’m saying, sorry if I offended you by calling it “meager,” but comparatively I feel that it is.
-------------------- I've been trying to justify you In the end I will just defy you
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LtLurker
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Re: "Rolling"(wrapping) cakes in coir rope/twine? 🤷 [Re: Greens21] 1
#27042842 - 11/16/20 08:10 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes, and we should all take your word over the general consensus of the growers here that document and grow regularly. 
OP just wanted to grow some cakes and you wanna turn it into a dick measuring contest while refusing to show your dick.
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Mateja


Registered: 07/14/16
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Re: "Rolling"(wrapping) cakes in coir rope/twine? 🤷 [Re: Greens21]
#27042843 - 11/16/20 08:10 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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You didn't offend me per se but you offended the collective effort here that's about posting relevant information and about expressing it in a non misleading way. I'm also sorry if I made you feel bad in any way, I personally don't enjoy calling people out for misinfo but when Its one of those extreme cases and new growers are involved reading those posts then I have to step in and correct.
And to answer your post, you are still stuck at comparing the nutrients density and water content of 300g of grain + a couple of pounds coir with the nutrient and water content of 60g powered grain (rice flour)
A bulk substrate of 1 qt of grain spawned with coir will weight around 1500g depending on the spawn ratio, one BRF substrate fruited will weight around 75g. It should be beyond obvious for anyone that a substrate weighing 1500g will produce more than a substrate weighting 75g so what's the point in pointing out something that obvious? Do you see my point of view now? A sub weighting one and a half kilo produces more than a sub that weighs 20 times less.
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
Edited by Mateja (11/16/20 08:12 PM)
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Greens21
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Re: "Rolling"(wrapping) cakes in coir rope/twine? 🤷 [Re: Mateja]
#27042989 - 11/16/20 09:18 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yes, and we should all take your word over the general consensus of the growers here that document and grow regularly. 
Really, the consensus here is that cakes produces as well as spawned tubs? That’s definitely not my impression.
You sound angry, and I really don’t know why
-------------------- I've been trying to justify you In the end I will just defy you
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Greens21
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Re: "Rolling"(wrapping) cakes in coir rope/twine? 🤷 [Re: Mateja]
#27042994 - 11/16/20 09:22 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mateah said: You didn't offend me per se but you offended the collective effort here that's about posting relevant information and about expressing it in a non misleading way. I'm also sorry if I made you feel bad in any way, I personally don't enjoy calling people out for misinfo but when Its one of those extreme cases and new growers are involved reading those posts then I have to step in and correct.
And to answer your post, you are still stuck at comparing the nutrients density and water content of 300g of grain + a couple of pounds coir with the nutrient and water content of 60g powered grain (rice flour)
A bulk substrate of 1 qt of grain spawned with coir will weight around 1500g depending on the spawn ratio, one BRF substrate fruited will weight around 75g. It should be beyond obvious for anyone that a substrate weighing 1500g will produce more than a substrate weighting 75g so what's the point in pointing out something that obvious? Do you see my point of view now? A sub weighting one and a half kilo produces more than a sub that weighs 20 times less.
But you’re still talking about BE at the end of the day. In general, growers have to grow covertly, meaning limited space. If a grower has space for one tub, then why would they grow 8 pint cakes in the same space that they can grow 10 lbs of substrate? Why would they spend a month and a half growing 4 oz of shrooms when they can spend a month and a half growing a pound and a half of shrooms?
There’s just a lot to factor in besides the weight of flour.
-------------------- I've been trying to justify you In the end I will just defy you
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EagerNoob42
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Re: "Rolling"(wrapping) cakes in coir rope/twine? 🤷 [Re: Mateja] 1
#27043766 - 11/17/20 12:06 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ok, so all arguments over BE and tubs versus cakes (which atleast some of you seem to understand was never the topic I was discussing in the first place, maybe I should simplify and clarify everything to one question.
Mateah: since you have experience rolling cakes in coir, my question is this:
What are your thoughts on the idea of using course coir thread wrapped around the cake to get 100% coverage and better water retention rather than your current coir cake method?
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mushhead
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Re: "Rolling"(wrapping) cakes in coir rope/twine? 🤷 [Re: EagerNoob42]
#27043851 - 11/17/20 01:07 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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this got way out of hand. So I think that hydrated coir is better than hydrated coir rope... Here's why, with coir it's pretty simple to get it to stick to your cakes, just don't over hydrate it and make sure your cakes are hydrated. Coir casings work awesome for cakes and usually produce better yields this way.
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