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Offlinemarmota89
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Registered: 11/11/20
Posts: 12
Last seen: 4 months, 9 hours
Should I Stay Away From Psychedelics? / Depersonalization and Derealization Disorder * 1
    #27042356 - 11/16/20 02:43 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Around 2016,(for about 3 months but like 1 day of 2 weeks, I experienced feelings of Derealization (DR) disorder without even knowing that what it is.
And sometimes the felling of derealization was triggered so hard that when it disappeared I wouldn't remember anything almost like a blackout from alcohol.
(I want to point that in that period I wasn't consuming anything [no weed, alcohol, tobacco]

The disorder reappeared around 15 Oct 2020, but this time with low feelings of Depersonalization (DP) disorder too. Strangely, I thinks it was triggered because I was doing a lot of research on life, psychedelics, world and all the deep topics. This November I smoked at a party some weed. The body high lasted about 3 days and after that the DR and low DP disorders are triggered constantly.

I try to do my best to stop it. I'm not doing anymore research on this after this post. I am listening to old music, doing activities and all the stuff to keep me connected.

But now I need your advice..
1. Should I stop learning about psychedelics?
2. Should I try them or do you think it will make my disorder worst?
3. Should I stop asking myself deep questions and just like put my mind into a cage and not think more than the reality we all see?

If you read until here, I am very thankful <3 And If you know to answer my questions and help me I would be even more. It's pretty sad to live like this. Just arriving in a place an then ask myself "How did I even get here?".

:ponder:


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InvisibleSchwifty.Bulbasaur
A pokémon on shrooms
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Registered: 07/18/20
Posts: 12
Re: Should I Stay Away From Psychedelics? / Depersonalization and Derealization Disorder [Re: marmota89]
    #27042443 - 11/16/20 03:43 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

hard for me to give you an informed answer about those disorder simply because I’ve never heard of them or looked into them whatsoever (and I should research before I respond but I don’t care enough to so at least I’m prefacing my answer with the extremity of my own ignorance) but anyways here’s my best shot at trying to be helpful for ya and also myself because I enjoy expressing my beliefs in order to further found myself... especially when talking mushrooms


*
(Also if anyone is reading this who is knowledgeable about cultivation, specifically mutated fruits, then please look at my recent post regarding multiple shrooms with caps growing one on top of each other, posted earlier today)
*

Alright my response:
Well I don’t even know what those “disorders” are but they sort of sound like what people say happens during ego death on psychedelics. I really don’t know much about ego death either but think I may have more or less experienced it before and actually think it to be something positive rather than something to be scared of and run from.
( after a while was exposed to mirror and completely shocked after looking at my own face attached to the body I had lived in my whole life... but then was just kinda like oh yeah wel I’m This spirit, me,  and am contained within this body that is able to connect itself to the world around)

but dude that last part you mention  #3 totally sounds dangerous/screwed up to me. That rhetoric especially “locking my mind in a cage” it’s like bro there’s people tryna do that to you all the time it’s already been happening whether you like it or not so I would hope/encourage you to keep questioning the world and life altogether because  you want your mind as free as can be and trying  to stop yourself from pursuing knowledge that you’re on the path to discovering ought to drive you crazier than whatever it is in the first place

And every second is a chance to start a new
you don’t have to wonder how you got there
you can just move on from where u are... and u don’t even have to do that

As for doing psychedelics idk how they will impact you or the things you have referred to as disorders but if you already experience stuff similar to ego death than yeah I would think psychedelics would make it stronger which you might consider to be worse 
but I think stronger in this case could be better cuz psychs can help ppl come to terms with how you feel and gain more understanding cuz that’s what I think ego death did for me, also the way I explained my experience with ego death was just sort of when I realized what had happened, that I had been reborn, all the dying and rebirth had already happened by the time I looked in the mirror and realized what had occurred


--------------------



Mush love & respect


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InvisibleSchwifty.Bulbasaur
A pokémon on shrooms
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Registered: 07/18/20
Posts: 12
Re: Should I Stay Away From Psychedelics? / Depersonalization and Derealization Disorder [Re: Schwifty.Bulbasaur]
    #27042474 - 11/16/20 04:09 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Also sounds like you may not be used to getting fucked up if the weed had you high for three days, pardon my crass vocab just seems best way to get point across. But anyways shrooms are the only psychedelic I recommend to people in general so I would advise against you trying anything else to begin with if you do decide to “take the plunge” figuratively speaking because shrooms will most likely be the least mentally/physically exhausting out of the common psychs, and by far the most reliable in my opinion when consider all the research chemicals and substitute drugs that suppliers can call lsd,mdma, or dmt


--------------------



Mush love & respect


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist
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Registered: 03/02/15
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Re: Should I Stay Away From Psychedelics? / Depersonalization and Derealization Disorder [Re: marmota89] * 2
    #27044765 - 11/18/20 01:12 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

1. Never stop learning about psychedelics

2. When in doubt, wait it out (in terms of dosing and tripping)!


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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InvisibleRhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher
Other


Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 785
Re: Should I Stay Away From Psychedelics? / Depersonalization and Derealization Disorder [Re: marmota89]
    #27044809 - 11/18/20 03:20 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Before I take a crack at answering your questions, were you diagnosed by a clinician with depersonalization-derealization disorder? I gather you probably were but I just want to make sure you have talked to a professional about this as well not just the shroomery.

If you have been diagnosed then psychedelics will likely make the symptoms worse. Although psychedelics don't have dissociative effects as intense as drugs in the dissociative class for example, they definitely do cause a degree of dissociation. Because they alter and often inhibit your sense of self, your depersonalization symptoms may intensify under the influence. Equally, they cause hallucinations of the outside world which can cause the outside world to seem even more unreal, leading to intensified derealization.

Obviously hallucinations involving the self and external environment may be a bit different than the dissociative effects of depersonalization & derealization, but they can definitely interact in a way that intensify both.

Mental disorders, especially those that alter one's sense of reality or self need very special care & attention given as to avoid serious psychological dangers that can come from pairing psychedelics with them. depending on the severity of the disorder, it is often best to avoid hallucinogens unfortunately.

I do not think you should necessarily stop asking deep questions or being curious about the nature of psychedelics. I do think it may be a good idea to at very least put your curiosity about using psychedelics on hold, at least until you have a better understanding of your disorder and maybe speak with a therapist, preferably one who is open to discussing psychedelics if you are interested further.

Maybe it may benefit you to think more about the nature of reality, physics, spirituality, or whatever similar metaphysical constructs if thinking of psychedelics make you feel like you want to pursue or try them. But I think censoring your thoughts is really a last resort and unless your disorder is very severe, this is a last resort (which I'm not ruling out as a possibility but this is rare and only a professional can determine this with you). There are probably other coping strategies that don't interfere with your identity & interests if you ask me.


--------------------

:cookiemonster: Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks:elmo:

:awesomenod: Easiest No-Pour Agar Method: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers:awesomenod:


Edited by Rhizomorph (11/18/20 03:22 AM)


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OfflineTreb88
Stranger
Registered: 12/04/21
Posts: 8
Last seen: 11 months, 21 days
Re: Should I Stay Away From Psychedelics? / Depersonalization and Derealization Disorder [Re: Rhizomorph]
    #28008286 - 10/20/22 06:40 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Not sure how this fits into the Shroomery world but seems as good a place as any to be brutally honest.

I want it all to be over. I don't understand what I need to do to not feel like this.

I have lived a privileged life. I have a lovely wife. I have the most lovable Black Labrador named Wallace. I have a loving family. I have a good job with a good boss in a good company.

Yet I am so miserable purely because I can't stop feeling miserable and I can't seem to change that.

A year ago I left my old job, for the second time after working myself to the brink. I was massively burnt out and took one thing out of leaving that job. I needed to learn to sit with my thoughts and do nothing. I was always on the go - sports, music, work, friends, gambling you name it.

I started meditating again, I started running every second day. I waged a war on my mental health which I have unequivocally lost. Every period of 'good mental wellbeing' doesn't seem to last and one morning I will just wake up knowing I am back in the waters of depression/anxiety trying not to drown.

I am on five different medications none of which I want to be on, I want to explore the world of psychedelics without the clashing of most mainstream medications. I normally have 1mg of clonazepam a day - every day for around 12 months - up until the last couple of weeks where I have either had none or 0.5mg tablets each day. Sure you could argue that my latest downturn is to do with the withdrawal from an addictive benzodiazepine but my brain doesn't like to listen to reason. It would prefer to explore far fetched ideas that further aggravate constant feelings of helplessness and hopelessness.

The main thoughts that plague me are:

This is never going to get better. What is the point of trying to get better, you have tried everything and it obviously hasn't worked.

I have made this all up; I am obviously living in some mental hospital making this all up. That explains the constant deja vu,the physical shaking, the fact that doing none of the 'scientifically' proven ways to improve your mental health seem to work. That you verbally resigned from your job, barely make it through the work weeks only to get asked why you haven't graded yourself as 'performing well' in your performance review, which is where your boss thinks you should be. That you thought mushrooms that grow in the ground might have the answers to your messed up thoughts. That your wife miscarried at 20 weeks, on christmas day, with her dementia riddled mother staying with us. Then 16 months of complications stopping you from trying again while her mum passes away and you fall deeper into depression and guilt about your thoughts about wanting to end it (with her? end it all? you can't tell any more). Meanwhile all your friends are having children and you have to be pluck up the energy to be happy for them, which you are, but you wonder just what you did to deserve this.

I now have in my possession weed, LSD, and psilocybin mushrooms. I really want the psychedelic space to be a part of my healing but that would mean me coming off my prescribed medications and I don't feel I'm ready for that - even though you can't exactly say that they work overly effectively.

Does anyone have a similar experience to me - being deathly miserable for the main reason that you are deathly miserable. Being on long term prescribed medication but wanting to come off them (to try psychedelics)?


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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9,284
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Re: Should I Stay Away From Psychedelics? / Depersonalization and Derealization Disorder [Re: Treb88]
    #28008777 - 10/21/22 05:17 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

You should honestly make your own thread for this.
2 year old thread isn't getting traffic and the content is not the same as yours.


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OfflineH3inz
Stranger


Registered: 09/25/22
Posts: 10
Last seen: 2 days, 6 hours
Re: Should I Stay Away From Psychedelics? / Depersonalization and Derealization Disorder [Re: DERRAYLD] * 1
    #28008847 - 10/21/22 06:38 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

I can only say what I would recommend if you were exactly like me. So this is what I would recommend to myself:

       
  • 1. Find a way to keep yourself away from benzodiazepines. (But don't get into trouble for not following doctors instructions) Unless you are an elderly patient, they mostly are only temporary fix that gets you addicted and makes the problem worse what ever you took them for. (I have experience with that too.)
       
  • 2. Magic mushrooms can be powerful antidepressants, they relieved my anhedonia and they made me feel interested in stuff again. And yes this is also a scientiffic way for treating depression, it has been scientiffically investigated and also a method that is officially used in canada (sometimes at least)
       
  • 3. Weed unfortunately doesn't play well with mental problems in the long term. (it can relieve depression short term) Certainly don't mix weed and magic mushrooms.
       
  • 4.There are still TDCS and EEG neurofeedback that you haven't tried. An EEG machine can be obtained for relatively cheap (open eeg). TDCS machine can be built at home, it's an easy circuit just make sure you measure everything before using and do not use anything more powerful than a 9 volter battery. Bad contacts can give you scars on your forehead though, so if you use sponges make sure the metal parts are inside of them (covered with the sponge part)
       
  • 5.If you kill yourself then you'l be leaving your dog and your wife. Just like some other people who don't kill themselves discard their close people and move on. It's not a nice thing to do at all.

Anyway I hope you find help and good luck.


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OfflineTreb88
Stranger
Registered: 12/04/21
Posts: 8
Last seen: 11 months, 21 days
Re: Should I Stay Away From Psychedelics? / Depersonalization and Derealization Disorder [Re: H3inz]
    #28139675 - 01/14/23 03:29 PM (1 year, 14 days ago)

Sorry for the late reply but appreciate your response.

Never heard of a TDCS machine before, not sure I'd trust myself to make one at home 😳 how often do you use it and what benefit do you find it gives you?


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Anonymous #1

Re: Should I Stay Away From Psychedelics? / Depersonalization and Derealization Disorder [Re: marmota89]
    #28141899 - 01/15/23 07:35 PM (1 year, 12 days ago)

Quote:

marmota89 said:
Around 2016,(for about 3 months but like 1 day of 2 weeks, I experienced feelings of Derealization (DR) disorder without even knowing that what it is.
And sometimes the felling of derealization was triggered so hard that when it disappeared I wouldn't remember anything almost like a blackout from alcohol.
(I want to point that in that period I wasn't consuming anything [no weed, alcohol, tobacco]

The disorder reappeared around 15 Oct 2020, but this time with low feelings of Depersonalization (DP) disorder too. Strangely, I thinks it was triggered because I was doing a lot of research on life, psychedelics, world and all the deep topics. This November I smoked at a party some weed. The body high lasted about 3 days and after that the DR and low DP disorders are triggered constantly.

I try to do my best to stop it. I'm not doing anymore research on this after this post. I am listening to old music, doing activities and all the stuff to keep me connected.

But now I need your advice..
1. Should I stop learning about psychedelics?
2. Should I try them or do you think it will make my disorder worst?
3. Should I stop asking myself deep questions and just like put my mind into a cage and not think more than the reality we all see?

If you read until here, I am very thankful <3 And If you know to answer my questions and help me I would be even more. It's pretty sad to live like this. Just arriving in a place an then ask myself "How did I even get here?".

:ponder:



Was this induced by trauma? Its a common trauma response.
But it’s not always a trauma response.
Been 2 years since last episode?
Are you seeing anyone or taking any Rx?


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Anonymous #1

Re: Should I Stay Away From Psychedelics? / Depersonalization and Derealization Disorder [Re: Treb88]
    #28141910 - 01/15/23 07:41 PM (1 year, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Treb88 said:
Not sure how this fits into the Shroomery world but seems as good a place as any to be brutally honest.

I want it all to be over. I don't understand what I need to do to not feel like this.

I have lived a privileged life. I have a lovely wife. I have the most lovable Black Labrador named Wallace. I have a loving family. I have a good job with a good boss in a good company.

Yet I am so miserable purely because I can't stop feeling miserable and I can't seem to change that.

A year ago I left my old job, for the second time after working myself to the brink. I was massively burnt out and took one thing out of leaving that job. I needed to learn to sit with my thoughts and do nothing. I was always on the go - sports, music, work, friends, gambling you name it.

I started meditating again, I started running every second day. I waged a war on my mental health which I have unequivocally lost. Every period of 'good mental wellbeing' doesn't seem to last and one morning I will just wake up knowing I am back in the waters of depression/anxiety trying not to drown.

I am on five different medications none of which I want to be on, I want to explore the world of psychedelics without the clashing of most mainstream medications. I normally have 1mg of clonazepam a day - every day for around 12 months - up until the last couple of weeks where I have either had none or 0.5mg tablets each day. Sure you could argue that my latest downturn is to do with the withdrawal from an addictive benzodiazepine but my brain doesn't like to listen to reason. It would prefer to explore far fetched ideas that further aggravate constant feelings of helplessness and hopelessness.

The main thoughts that plague me are:

This is never going to get better. What is the point of trying to get better, you have tried everything and it obviously hasn't worked.

I have made this all up; I am obviously living in some mental hospital making this all up. That explains the constant deja vu,the physical shaking, the fact that doing none of the 'scientifically' proven ways to improve your mental health seem to work. That you verbally resigned from your job, barely make it through the work weeks only to get asked why you haven't graded yourself as 'performing well' in your performance review, which is where your boss thinks you should be. That you thought mushrooms that grow in the ground might have the answers to your messed up thoughts. That your wife miscarried at 20 weeks, on christmas day, with her dementia riddled mother staying with us. Then 16 months of complications stopping you from trying again while her mum passes away and you fall deeper into depression and guilt about your thoughts about wanting to end it (with her? end it all? you can't tell any more). Meanwhile all your friends are having children and you have to be pluck up the energy to be happy for them, which you are, but you wonder just what you did to deserve this.

I now have in my possession weed, LSD, and psilocybin mushrooms. I really want the psychedelic space to be a part of my healing but that would mean me coming off my prescribed medications and I don't feel I'm ready for that - even though you can't exactly say that they work overly effectively.

Does anyone have a similar experience to me - being deathly miserable for the main reason that you are deathly miserable. Being on long term prescribed medication but wanting to come off them (to try psychedelics)?



How long has this been going on?
Your post is from October
How are you currently?


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InvisibleMsMoonshoes
Moonfaced Moonchild
Female


Registered: 07/25/22
Posts: 26
Re: Should I Stay Away From Psychedelics? / Depersonalization and Derealization Disorder [Re: Anonymous #1] * 1
    #28142410 - 01/16/23 07:21 AM (1 year, 12 days ago)

I had very severe CPTSD related disassociation for many years, starting from childhood until about two years ago. I used psychedelics fairly consistently for a long time, and I was fine. I even felt various improvements for short periods following both mushroom and acid trips.

That being said, I ended up doing EMDR with a licensed therapist, as well as talk therapy, the later of which I've been doing actively for three years. The EMDR treated and mostly eradicated the disassociative episodes in only three sessions, as it closes and reformed the neuropathways in my brain that had been damaged due to sustained trauma.

I'd say tripping is fine, though follow basic precautions and start slow. The depersonalization will likely need to be treated separately, and while psychedelics can sometimes help, your mileage may vary.

If you have a mental health professional you're working with, I'd give them a heads up so you can prepare to deal with anything that comes up from the trip. If you aren't in therapy, I would get into it first. This isn't a condition that tends to comes out of nowhere, and treating the root cause is important.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Should I Stay Away From Psychedelics? / Depersonalization and Derealization Disorder [Re: MsMoonshoes]
    #28142511 - 01/16/23 09:07 AM (1 year, 12 days ago)

Quote:

MsMoonshoes said:
I had very severe CPTSD related disassociation for many years, starting from childhood until about two years ago. I used psychedelics fairly consistently for a long time, and I was fine. I even felt various improvements for short periods following both mushroom and acid trips.

That being said, I ended up doing EMDR with a licensed therapist, as well as talk therapy, the later of which I've been doing actively for three years. The EMDR treated and mostly eradicated the disassociative episodes in only three sessions, as it closes and reformed the neuropathways in my brain that had been damaged due to sustained trauma.

I'd say tripping is fine, though follow basic precautions and start slow. The depersonalization will likely need to be treated separately, and while psychedelics can sometimes help, your mileage may vary.

If you have a mental health professional you're working with, I'd give them a heads up so you can prepare to deal with anything that comes up from the trip. If you aren't in therapy, I would get into it first. This isn't a condition that tends to comes out of nowhere, and treating the root cause is important.



EMDR is a miracle for some people. Difficult while doing it but the aftermath is miraculous.


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