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Hiddenx
Stranger

Registered: 07/20/20
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Cultivation Problems
#27041659 - 11/16/20 06:21 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hi Shroomery Community,
Great to be a part of the community. First Time Poster.
During this pandemic , picked up mushroom cultivation and wanted to start off with cultivating Oyster Mushrooms ( Pleurotus Florida ) , I had few questions regarding the cultivation as i keep facing a lot of issues with contamination and slow colonization. I hope this helps other newbies who are starting out mushroom cultivation.
Substrate - Dried Paddy Straw - Steam Pasteurized
I have had few contamination problems , having Trich in my bags. I lost like 5 bags out of the 10 i made recently. I cleaned the whole place down with Bleach and Peroxide but the problem remains. I have tried soaking for more time like 10 to 16 hours , that was even worse , Bottom half of the bag would not be colonized and it start growing Trich or some other disease. I even tried putting drain holes at the bottom but still it didn't work , the mycelium would not spread to the higher moisture part of the bag. So for moisture level , 4 hours Soaking and 2 hours Pasteurization was good.
Questions :
1. Preventing Trichoderma? Having more time for soaking or more time in pasteurization? 2. If affected by Trichoderma , what solution can i use to fix the bag if possible? 3. How do you know when to harvest after the mushrooms start fruiting? 4. Few of the mushrooms , i started fruiting are kind of curling inside , I have my Humidity set at 95% and it is constantly at 95% , As for Fresh air , i have an Exhaust fan sending in fresh air through a filter. What wrong am i doing here? 5. Fruiting bodies are cracking and i haven't touched it also , what might be wrong.

Regards, Hiddenx
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coversall
إِنْ شَاءَ ٱللَهُ



Registered: 06/06/20
Posts: 2,749
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Re: Cultivation Problems [Re: Hiddenx]
#27041664 - 11/16/20 06:29 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I can't answer the questions around trich, afaik there isn't much you can do to manage it once it's there. In tubs people have tried, with mixed success to cut out infected parts of the sub. I think if you catch it early, and are gentle it _can_ work, but is fairly hit or miss.
Inside of a bag I'm not sure what your options are. Personally I'd just isolate the bag from the clean ones and let it grow for a while, see how it pans out. But I'd definitely be moving the bag to somewhere else.
Regarding when to pick oysters, grab them just before, or as the edges start to curl up. That's what I was taught. They can spore like crazy so bear that in mind.
With curled fruit, could be age, but they could be drying. I hand misted my blocks and directly misted the fruit which seems to prevent them cracking or curling (of course until they were older). Some fruit do just crack though, especially if they are growing quickly and aggressively.
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Hikeadellic
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Re: Cultivation Problems [Re: coversall]
#27041745 - 11/16/20 07:37 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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The trich that you can see is the reproductive stage of trich. The rest of it has spread undetected
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Hiddenx
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Registered: 07/20/20
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Re: Cultivation Problems [Re: coversall]
#27041981 - 11/16/20 10:01 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
coversall said: I can't answer the questions around trich, afaik there isn't much you can do to manage it once it's there. In tubs people have tried, with mixed success to cut out infected parts of the sub. I think if you catch it early, and are gentle it _can_ work, but is fairly hit or miss.
Inside of a bag I'm not sure what your options are. Personally I'd just isolate the bag from the clean ones and let it grow for a while, see how it pans out. But I'd definitely be moving the bag to somewhere else.
Regarding when to pick oysters, grab them just before, or as the edges start to curl up. That's what I was taught. They can spore like crazy so bear that in mind.
With curled fruit, could be age, but they could be drying. I hand misted my blocks and directly misted the fruit which seems to prevent them cracking or curling (of course until they were older). Some fruit do just crack though, especially if they are growing quickly and aggressively.
Ya i tried working with one of the bag which got trich/penicillin , Injected a bit of my fumigation solution and it kind of stopped the spread but the mycelium is struggling to colonize now so that kinda failed there :P.
Okay , There are some which are about to curl now , so its better to harvest them out. Once i finished harvesting , how should i start the second flush from the bag? Do i just scrape the top layer of the previous flush or just mist it one or twice?
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Hiddenx
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Registered: 07/20/20
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Quote:
Hikeadellic said: The trich that you can see is the reproductive stage of trich. The rest of it has spread undetected
Reproductive stage of Trich? Is there any way i can stop it before it starts sporulating?
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Hikeadellic
Fungi Fan



Registered: 08/31/20
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Re: Cultivation Problems [Re: Hiddenx]
#27042056 - 11/16/20 10:48 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah when its green its making babies, which means it already has a foothold that is generally undetectable. You need to improve your process to reduce trich. Trich is basically everywhere on the planet so its a very common problem we run into. It usually comes out during fruiting, but if the pins have started I usually let it ride till harvest.
Going from spore straight to grain is a method that works, but its not always the best method. If you go from spore to agar, then transfer to another agar, you can be pretty confident that its very clean.
You also might have a better time using smaller vessels. Big bags, and bags in general IMOP can have lots of issues. Increased size means longer colonization times which means increased chance of bad shit growing.
Jars are a really good method if you don't have any experience with them. They are smaller so they are easier to colonize. I think its a really good idea to have lots of small things going on over a few big things.
Welcome to The Shroomery!  
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Hiddenx
Stranger

Registered: 07/20/20
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Re: Cultivation Problems [Re: Hiddenx]
#27043173 - 11/17/20 01:02 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hikeadellic said: Yeah when its green its making babies, which means it already has a foothold that is generally undetectable. You need to improve your process to reduce trich. Trich is basically everywhere on the planet so its a very common problem we run into. It usually comes out during fruiting, but if the pins have started I usually let it ride till harvest.
Going from spore straight to grain is a method that works, but its not always the best method. If you go from spore to agar, then transfer to another agar, you can be pretty confident that its very clean.
You also might have a better time using smaller vessels. Big bags, and bags in general IMOP can have lots of issues. Increased size means longer colonization times which means increased chance of bad shit growing.
Jars are a really good method if you don't have any experience with them. They are smaller so they are easier to colonize. I think its a really good idea to have lots of small things going on over a few big things.
Welcome to The Shroomery!   
Trich making babies now! Uff! Currently reading up Paul Stamets book , will hopefully help me understand how and what i might be doing wrong.
The Spawn was like a week or two old and it took about 24 to 25 days to fully colonize a 5kg bag. Is that bad timing?
Ya , I'll probably switch to a smaller bag till i get the hang of it.
Thanks for welcome. Looking forward to posting questions and contributing to the community.
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
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Last seen: 2 months, 17 days
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Re: Cultivation Problems [Re: Hiddenx]
#27043181 - 11/17/20 01:13 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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On preventing trichoderma.
There are fungicides that can be used to prevent trich if you're using living myc IE: LC, agar etc.
Thiophante-methyl is used by white button mushroom farms as a drench for their casing as a preventative against trichoderma spp. Extremely effective. It's in the family of benzimidazole fungicides. You would have to find a way to adapt its use to what you're doing.
However it can be a costly affair and hard to obtain for the homegamer. A 10l jug of 50% t-methyl suspension concentrate cost me $1100. So if there's a more technique-driven methodology to prevention someone can offer go with that.
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
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Gnidrolog
Majestic Poobah



Registered: 11/10/20
Posts: 20
Loc: omotion
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Cultivation Problems [Re: starbones]
#27043254 - 11/17/20 03:52 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well hot diggety-dog. Is this effective even with relatively bacterial grain spawn?
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 2 months, 17 days
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Re: Cultivation Problems [Re: Gnidrolog]
#27043322 - 11/17/20 06:09 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Depends on the bacteria I guess? Some grain spawn can be made bacterial for trich prevention purposes.
Bacillus subtilis QST713 bacteria can be used to treat grain spawn for the prevention and defense against trichoderma spp. as well. Bayer sells different forms of it under their Jazz label. It comes in a dehydrated form you either coat your grain spawn in or mix with water and apply as a casing drench. It's marketed and sold specifically for use in mushroom farming. Commercial farming so it's not going to be cheap. It also helps to treat and prevent other harmful pathogens.
Again probably not easily accessible for the home gamer and most likely very costly.
Products like these are kind of taboo around here I guess. The focus is on technique over crutches but I say why not both? As psilocybin laws change around North America I think it's going to be important for people to get more comfortable with this kinda stuff. Especially those with their eyes on doing a large legal commercial grow.
I use bacillus thuringiensis israelensis for the control and prevention of fungus gnats already as it's completely harmless to my myc, mushrooms and myself but quickly acts as a larvacide against fungus gnats. I'd like to add bacillus subtilis to my toolbox as well soon.
There's also this from Bayer, still bacillus subtilis QST713 but not specifically marketed for mushroom cultivation. Really hard to shy away from the sub-$100 price tag though. Check the label online to see all the crazy shit this stuff controls in all sorts of different crops. It's organic and can be used up to harvest, fun stuff.

-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
Edited by starbones (11/17/20 06:29 AM)
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Gnidrolog
Majestic Poobah



Registered: 11/10/20
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Re: Cultivation Problems [Re: starbones]
#27043368 - 11/17/20 06:57 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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 Thank you x(a whole bunch) Been wondering about a bacillus co-culture, and you've sent me in the right direction.
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Hiddenx
Stranger

Registered: 07/20/20
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Re: Cultivation Problems [Re: starbones]
#27043371 - 11/17/20 06:59 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hikeadellic said: Yeah when its green its making babies, which means it already has a foothold that is generally undetectable. You need to improve your process to reduce trich. Trich is basically everywhere on the planet so its a very common problem we run into. It usually comes out during fruiting, but if the pins have started I usually let it ride till harvest.
Going from spore straight to grain is a method that works, but its not always the best method. If you go from spore to agar, then transfer to another agar, you can be pretty confident that its very clean.
You also might have a better time using smaller vessels. Big bags, and bags in general IMOP can have lots of issues. Increased size means longer colonization times which means increased chance of bad shit growing.
Jars are a really good method if you don't have any experience with them. They are smaller so they are easier to colonize. I think its a really good idea to have lots of small things going on over a few big things.
Welcome to The Shroomery!   
Trich making babies now! Uff! Currently reading up Paul Stamets book , will hopefully help me understand how and what i might be doing wrong.
The Spawn was like a week or two old and it took about 24 to 25 days to fully colonize a 5kg bag. Is that bad timing?
Ya , I'll probably switch to a smaller bag till i get the hang of it.
Thanks for welcome. Looking forward to posting questions and contributing to the community.  Quote:
starbones said: On preventing trichoderma.
There are fungicides that can be used to prevent trich if you're using living myc IE: LC, agar etc.
Thiophante-methyl is used by white button mushroom farms as a drench for their casing as a preventative against trichoderma spp. Extremely effective. It's in the family of benzimidazole fungicides. You would have to find a way to adapt its use to what you're doing.
However it can be a costly affair and hard to obtain for the homegamer. A 10l jug of 50% t-methyl suspension concentrate cost me $1100. So if there's a more technique-driven methodology to prevention someone can offer go with that.
Can Thiophante Methyl change the chemical composition of Mushroom? Won't that be harmful for human consumption. Read through some literature about using Thiophante with 50PPM and Formaldehyde 500PPM for substrate preparation. But it's purpose is for Drying since they tested the fruiting body after drying it.
Thiophante Methyl is pretty cheap here where i live as most of the country is into Farming , these chemicals are highly available but they are available as Powders and with 70% concentration. 100Gm is about 2 to 3$.
I'll try and order this and test it out with different soaking periods and see what difference i get.
Regards, Hiddenx
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Hikeadellic
Fungi Fan



Registered: 08/31/20
Posts: 1,227
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Last seen: 11 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Cultivation Problems [Re: Hiddenx]
#27043543 - 11/17/20 09:40 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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You might have a better time going to jars over bags. RR's website lets grow mushrooms is a great resource for tutorial videos. All of RR's notes on mushroom cultivation is a great read too. Bod's easy AF teks were very helpful.
Get a pressure cooker if you haven't yet. Also learn how to make agar ASAP. It is extremely useful and not that hard after you get the hang of it.
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 2 months, 17 days
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Re: Cultivation Problems [Re: Hiddenx]
#27043564 - 11/17/20 09:55 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hiddenx said: Can Thiophante Methyl change the chemical composition of Mushroom? Won't that be harmful for human consumption. Read through some literature about using Thiophante with 50PPM and Formaldehyde 500PPM for substrate preparation. But it's purpose is for Drying since they tested the fruiting body after drying it.
Thiophante Methyl is pretty cheap here where i live as most of the country is into Farming , these chemicals are highly available but they are available as Powders and with 70% concentration. 100Gm is about 2 to 3$.
I'll try and order this and test it out with different soaking periods and see what difference i get.
Regards, Hiddenx
T-methyl is used in the farming of white button mushrooms so no worries about human consumption if used as directed. There is a window that needs to be crossed between application and harvest though so for me it's only usefulness is in slow fruiting vars.
While the efficacy of bacillus subtilis is not as high as t-methyl it's far safer and probably a better idea for the home gamer as it can be applied safely even at the day of harvest. That and it's got that goofyass OMRI certification for being organic if one cares about that sort of thing. There is an impact on yield in testing with bacillus though.
Nothing will help you if your spawn is dirty though.
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
Edited by starbones (11/17/20 10:15 AM)
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