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QM33
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Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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Atmospheric Sterilization and Sawdust Bag/Block Prep And Procedure?
#27040800 - 11/15/20 03:34 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hey Gis and Gials, ha,
So I'm trying to start a little farm in a garage. But I'm having a little trouble pulling the trigger on how I'm prepping my bags. I've been searching as hard as I can and I think I'm 99% there, but I don't know how much is outdated either, anyway.
So I want to steam/atmospheric sterilize my supplemented blocks. I wantto use tyvek sleeves..? I think. So I don't have to seal and cut them..? Making them more likely to be reused at least once potentially? Or maybe I should just seal it? My initial plan is use Tyvek, unsealed, steam from 8-14 hours??? In T style filter bags? AND I'm planning on moving these bags, "in a wheelbarrow", about 100 feet in the house. How much do I need to let them cool before removing from the steam vessel, with or without the tyvek? I imagined loading it early one day, it finishes at night, and I could unload it into a non sterile but clean room the next day, unload and reload, then once the bags are cool, wipe with iso in front of the hood and inoculate.And this is just a drum and a burner, with blocks for the burner. Planning on running 5 of them. Please help!!!
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SHROOMSISAY01
Mr. Shrooms


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Re: Atmospheric Sterilization and Sawdust Bag/Block Prep And Procedure? [Re: QM33]
#27040839 - 11/15/20 04:04 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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No need to seal or use Tyvek leave just fold the bags properly as they cool the bag will seal against its self and you will be fine. You want to let them cool for at least a day to make sure they seal before you open the drum.
Are you sure you want to run a gas burner that is a lot of work I have an electric sterilizer that is run by a PID and there is no work involved I press a button and come back the next day and unload. With a gas burner, you will constantly need to adjust it and babysit it while it is running. It is much cheaper to run an electric steamer also it cost me $1.80 to do 4 bags with my PID set up.
Fold bags...


I also run my PC from a PID as you can see in the pic so I don't have to babysit it either.
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QM33
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Registered: 04/09/20
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Loc: Oregon
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Re: Atmospheric Sterilization and Sawdust Bag/Block Prep And Procedure? [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#27040866 - 11/15/20 04:24 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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How long do you cook them for once they get to temp? How long does it take you to get to temp? I don't need to be worried about moving these outside?
And I've thought about making one of those things... PID? My original battle with it was that those electric heat elements, for a good one, range from 2500-6000 watts. And if I'm running 4 or 5, even 2 or 3, would be a huge load that I definitely couldnt supply right now. I by no means could trust my own electrical work. Idk I have considered it. I would love it. I have like 10k to spend on this startup and it's going quick, and I'm not trying to spend it all. I'm hoping I can get to the farmers markets within the year and try to consider getting some help on that. But even then I wasn't sure if I wanted something like a bubba barrel or whatever or build like a boiler that could supply the 4 or 5 vessels? Why wouldn't that be a better idea?
-------------------- OmManiPadmeHum,OmManiPadmeHum, OmManiPadMeHum... There are known knowns, there are known unknowns, there are also unknown unknowns. With great privilege comes great responsibility.
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QM33
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Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Atmospheric Sterilization and Sawdust Bag/Block Prep And Procedure? [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#27040871 - 11/15/20 04:26 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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And I'm kinda thinking propane can help get me to temp quicker. And I'm planning on starting a business from my home so keeping an eye on this and/or adding water or whatever shouldn't be a problem at first during startup, hopefully...
-------------------- OmManiPadmeHum,OmManiPadmeHum, OmManiPadMeHum... There are known knowns, there are known unknowns, there are also unknown unknowns. With great privilege comes great responsibility.
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QM33
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Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Atmospheric Sterilization and Sawdust Bag/Block Prep And Procedure? [Re: QM33]
#27040909 - 11/15/20 04:47 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've also considered getting tyvek suits and cutting and stitching, or even tyvek bags from uline, if I could make it work, but pretty much put a sawdust bag or two completely inside tyvek as it sterilizes, then I assume I could freely take it outside, or in the bathroom haha, and then remove the tyvek cover in the flowhood room, let the room clean and go. Essentially just making a tyvek layer around the spawn bag that can be removed before inoculation, keeping it sterile, maybe making even an iso wipe unnecessary..?
-------------------- OmManiPadmeHum,OmManiPadmeHum, OmManiPadMeHum... There are known knowns, there are known unknowns, there are also unknown unknowns. With great privilege comes great responsibility.
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SHROOMSISAY01
Mr. Shrooms


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Re: Atmospheric Sterilization and Sawdust Bag/Block Prep And Procedure? [Re: QM33]
#27040940 - 11/15/20 05:05 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quantom Moksha said: How long do you cook them for once they get to temp? How long does it take you to get to temp? I don't need to be worried about moving these outside?
And I've thought about making one of those things... PID? My original battle with it was that those electric heat elements, for a good one, range from 2500-6000 watts. And if I'm running 4 or 5, even 2 or 3, would be a huge load that I definitely couldnt supply right now. I by no means could trust my own electrical work. Idk I have considered it. I would love it. I have like 10k to spend on this startup and it's going quick, and I'm not trying to spend it all. I'm hoping I can get to the farmers markets within the year and try to consider getting some help on that. But even then I wasn't sure if I wanted something like a bubba barrel or whatever or build like a boiler that could supply the 4 or 5 vessels? Why wouldn't that be a better idea?
You would not run an element in each drum you would use one drum as your steam producer and then pipe the steam to each drum like what the fungus does...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYKZ6tv8d2rkGCMU_ja-b1Q
He has made a big one from a polypropylene tub but I don't know how that worked out for him.
I just noticed you said why not use a boiler that is exactly what you would want to do. How much mushroom do you plan on producing? What is your plan? PM me maybe I can help you out with some ideas. You can get about 60 5 lb bags in a drum so you are talking about 360 bags each run I hope you have help because you are talking about 550 lbs of mushrooms a week from those bags 1st flush.
once the bags are cool you will not have a problem with taking them outside. You are overthinking it. No need for Tyvek anything.
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SHROOMSISAY01
Mr. Shrooms


Registered: 01/22/17
Posts: 3,850
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Re: Atmospheric Sterilization and Sawdust Bag/Block Prep And Procedure? [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#27040957 - 11/15/20 05:20 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I forgot to mention you would be able to run them 2 to 3 times a week so with what you are planning you are talking about 1500 lbs of mushrooms a week can you sell that much can you produce that much? Remember you have the price of the bags and the sub. I am not trying to discourage you but I think that is a lot of mushrooms. Do you have an incubation room and a fruiting room big enough for that many bags?
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QM33
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Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Atmospheric Sterilization and Sawdust Bag/Block Prep And Procedure? [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#27040959 - 11/15/20 05:21 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ride on man I really appreciate your help. I probably will PM you at some point. And I guess my main turn off with a boiler is I will need to weld... I don't know if that's true I guess but I can't weld.
And your link took me to his channel not a video, but I think I've seen that video where he uses a old wine berry grate or whatever. I thought about building a steam shed or whatever but couldn't find alot of links for that and again, can't weld... And no electrical experience really...
And I can PM you more of my business plan, but I was shotting for 100 bags a day, along with 50 jars in my PC. I was assuming I could do 25 5lb bags in a 55drum, and I've been having a hard time gushing that even because alot of these "teks" aren't always telling you bag size they're using... But I'm scaling my production for 500 bags a week. And honestly I'm really just doing whatever works out. I have like 400sq feet and it's like 8 ft tall, a garage. I even want to push the loft space. Another thing that's just going to play out I guess is how long different strains will stay in there, mainly shitaki and beech maybe poplar are going to be the "lingerers" I guess. And I'm going to have to keep the reishis and lion's mane a bit warmer anyway, so I guess what I'm saying as far as how much I'll NEED to sterilize every day will eventually be based on how much room I have. And if I have blocks in there for up to 3 months I won't be able to push 500 a week for long. But I've recently learned I'll need to let these cool completely before removing them from the vessel..
If there are non welding, easily wired automated barrel options I'm interested, otherwise I'm Gunna need to save some money and hire someone to make that for me.
Appreciate you.
-------------------- OmManiPadmeHum,OmManiPadmeHum, OmManiPadMeHum... There are known knowns, there are known unknowns, there are also unknown unknowns. With great privilege comes great responsibility.
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SHROOMSISAY01
Mr. Shrooms


Registered: 01/22/17
Posts: 3,850
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Re: Atmospheric Sterilization and Sawdust Bag/Block Prep And Procedure? [Re: QM33]
#27040973 - 11/15/20 05:27 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I forgot to mention I run my steamer for 12 hour and it takes the steamer 45 mins to get to 208F which is where I run it at. But you will have to check and see how long to run your steamer by taking a thermometer and placing it in the middle of the top bag and watching it. Once it reaches the desired temp you will run your bags at then I add 10 hours.
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SHROOMSISAY01
Mr. Shrooms


Registered: 01/22/17
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Re: Atmospheric Sterilization and Sawdust Bag/Block Prep And Procedure? [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#27040991 - 11/15/20 05:37 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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weldless bulkhead...
Can you sell 750 lbs of mushrooms a week?
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SHROOMSISAY01
Mr. Shrooms


Registered: 01/22/17
Posts: 3,850
Loc: Virginia, USA
Last seen: 4 days, 2 hours
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Re: Atmospheric Sterilization and Sawdust Bag/Block Prep And Procedure? [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#27040996 - 11/15/20 05:41 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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remember I think 750 would be on the low side of what you would be producing. I get about 2 lbs per bag 1st flush and remember you will need room for the bags to continue growing if you are doing a 2nd flush. I don't know how much room you have and I want you to think this through.
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QM33
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Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Atmospheric Sterilization and Sawdust Bag/Block Prep And Procedure? [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#27041000 - 11/15/20 05:44 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well if one can hold 60 I could run 2 at half capacity one day, then 2 the next and that should actually work pretty well as far as letting them cool, and doing 500 bags a week. Can I sell that much? Idk. But I can try, and dry! I need to get a fridge setup but I just ordered cultures on agar, I'll have to grow that out and get jars going then bags so I have at least a month or so until I'll even be thinking about fruiting. I'm planning on going to the farmers market, even marketing on Nextdoor and Craigslist and any restraunts I can find. Maybe even starting a CSA where they can pay when I show up. I have some money saved. I've also wondered if I can maybe donate and get a tax break, to a food bank? Even donate dry product? And if I have to scale it back I think that's fine. And maybe I should have a better understanding of how long some of those slower strains will even be in there? I feel like those could drastically slow production even maybe if I felt overwhelmed. At this point I will just have my wife to help. 2000 bags =700 2 tons wood = 500 20 bags Wheat bran = 400 (maybe too much) 80 bags of oats= 375 Petri dishes= 90 Propane estimate =200 Misc. (Alc.,gloves,lysol,agar,)
So that's 2265 I feel like I'm forgetting something else. This doesn't include power, water, or space rent(if applicable) and I may be using buckets or tubing for oysters, and it's hard to say on power costs. I'm expecting 500 for utilities, so say 1500 on the prior costs is 3765. And if I can get 1 pound a bag. At 5$ a pound. That's 10000. I guess after costs it's only 6235 but that's 2000 a month profit. And that's really bare fucking minimum I'm thinking, idk if that could support me and my girl. But if I'm only getting 1 a pound I'll just not supplement ha! And then I could shit blocks everywhere lol. Idk I think the numbers are there... I'm going to see if I have an icubation room big enough! That also depends on the strains I'm pushing at the time and how full my fruiting garage is. I'm trying to do sporeless oysters, shitakios, lion's mane, reishis, enokis and beech, I'm probably going to get some poplar, what do you think? I haven't grown enokis, beech or poplar, I'm feeling fine on the enokis tho. I was going to do bottles but I think I'm Gunna do bags. I know it's alot of mushrooms. But this needs to support me and my girl. But will I have enough space? Idk yet. I have a 10*10 incubation room about, haven't measured. Already have a flow room but need to expand it, going to send the steam into the garage also. I'm hoping insulating and waterproofing is going to be as cheap as ide hope.
-------------------- OmManiPadmeHum,OmManiPadmeHum, OmManiPadMeHum... There are known knowns, there are known unknowns, there are also unknown unknowns. With great privilege comes great responsibility.
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QM33
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Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Atmospheric Sterilization and Sawdust Bag/Block Prep And Procedure? [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#27041011 - 11/15/20 05:55 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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And I can't sell 750. I know ide be pushing it with 500... But I'm also thinking if I'm selling as low as 5 a pound they will be gone. But also, I doubt they will sell that low. And if I can't sell them I'll dry them, or eat them, or give them away. Until the business comes. The way I see it if I can produced hundreds of pounds it's just a matter of time. I also want to get a processing license and find a kitchen to use. Make sauces and stuff... Maybe even just straight can them.
-------------------- OmManiPadmeHum,OmManiPadmeHum, OmManiPadMeHum... There are known knowns, there are known unknowns, there are also unknown unknowns. With great privilege comes great responsibility.
  Quantom Qups PROOF AND Soft Drops Turn your Swab to a Syringe and Syringe to Multiple Syringes! No Pours (QuantomStyal)Magic Fruit Leather DMT for IandI
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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤



Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Atmospheric Sterilization and Sawdust Bag/Block Prep And Procedure? [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#27041015 - 11/15/20 05:59 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I might start with 250 ha.. but I did really want to try and get it full... We will see. Much love on your ideas brotha!!
-------------------- OmManiPadmeHum,OmManiPadmeHum, OmManiPadMeHum... There are known knowns, there are known unknowns, there are also unknown unknowns. With great privilege comes great responsibility.
  Quantom Qups PROOF AND Soft Drops Turn your Swab to a Syringe and Syringe to Multiple Syringes! No Pours (QuantomStyal)Magic Fruit Leather DMT for IandI
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SHROOMSISAY01
Mr. Shrooms


Registered: 01/22/17
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Re: Atmospheric Sterilization and Sawdust Bag/Block Prep And Procedure? [Re: QM33]
#27041028 - 11/15/20 06:07 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't know how experienced of a grower you are but if you are experienced enough that sounds good. It is better to do one strain well then 5 strains poorly in my opinion. You are talking a lot of work with 500 bags a week doing them by hand. I hope you at least have a flow meter and know how to figure out water content of bags. If not check out the last link in my signature. I would also find soy hulls for my oyster strains and LM. I doubt you have a conditioned fruiting room so you are going to need to grow the strains that the temps will allow you to grow.
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QM33
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Registered: 04/09/20
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Loc: Oregon
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Re: Atmospheric Sterilization and Sawdust Bag/Block Prep And Procedure? [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#27041034 - 11/15/20 06:10 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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So if I wanted to make a super simple boiler, I could use 1 55 drum, add a dozen or two gallons of water,put it on a couple blocks and a burner, and use one of the weldless bulkheads, attach it to the lid, take a(what type??)hose from that bulkhead and find a way to split that for as many vessels I want to run (1-4) and run a hose from the split to the spawn containing vessels, where I would have another weldless bulkhead at the bottom that would recieve steam from the boiler? I could have valves allowing the steam to certain vessels? I could use similar bulkheads and valves to run the steam into my fruiting room of I choose, or vent outside?
-------------------- OmManiPadmeHum,OmManiPadmeHum, OmManiPadMeHum... There are known knowns, there are known unknowns, there are also unknown unknowns. With great privilege comes great responsibility.
  Quantom Qups PROOF AND Soft Drops Turn your Swab to a Syringe and Syringe to Multiple Syringes! No Pours (QuantomStyal)Magic Fruit Leather DMT for IandI
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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤



Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Atmospheric Sterilization and Sawdust Bag/Block Prep And Procedure? [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#27041045 - 11/15/20 06:19 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I feel what your saying on the strains but idk I feel like if I just did oysters ide be wasting my time.. I've never had a flow meter, what is it? I've seen it on fungiperfecti. and I know it's alot of work.. I've prepped 80 jars from rinse to finish in a day, and I've made 12 monotubs once in a day where I pasteurized the sub that morning. So I feel it on the work. But I'll be home. I'll be my own boss. I can get stoned. If I can pull this off at all I could really give a shit. It's better than working at a warehouse or flipping burgers. I can listen to music all day! Lol
Would soybean meal work..? And I am going to condition the growing room, probably 75% kept at 50-60 and 25% kept at 60-70 for reishis, lion's and maybe another one. I'm thinking a propane heater will be my best bet if I can set it up safely.
-------------------- OmManiPadmeHum,OmManiPadmeHum, OmManiPadMeHum... There are known knowns, there are known unknowns, there are also unknown unknowns. With great privilege comes great responsibility.
  Quantom Qups PROOF AND Soft Drops Turn your Swab to a Syringe and Syringe to Multiple Syringes! No Pours (QuantomStyal)Magic Fruit Leather DMT for IandI
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SHROOMSISAY01
Mr. Shrooms


Registered: 01/22/17
Posts: 3,850
Loc: Virginia, USA
Last seen: 4 days, 2 hours
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Re: Atmospheric Sterilization and Sawdust Bag/Block Prep And Procedure? [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#27041047 - 11/15/20 06:20 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Here is my advice just to keep you from going broke before you get started. I would start off with say 100 lbs if you can sell the 100 lbs it will be much easier to expand once you have already built it once. it is much better to have to expand and have people waiting for your mushrooms than to have mushrooms rotting in the refrigerator. It will be money wasted and been worse food wasted. But whatever you decide to do I will help in any way I can to get you to where you want to go.
Remember with that amount of mushrooms I hope you have a huge cooler to keep them in or you will not get them to customers until they look terrible and that will keep you from selling to future customers. Word will spread fast if they are not looking good and word will also spread fast if they look good and everyone will want what you have.
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QM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤



Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Atmospheric Sterilization and Sawdust Bag/Block Prep And Procedure? [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#27041060 - 11/15/20 06:28 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Word. I feel and hear you. And appreciate and love you! Keep you posted.
-------------------- OmManiPadmeHum,OmManiPadmeHum, OmManiPadMeHum... There are known knowns, there are known unknowns, there are also unknown unknowns. With great privilege comes great responsibility.
  Quantom Qups PROOF AND Soft Drops Turn your Swab to a Syringe and Syringe to Multiple Syringes! No Pours (QuantomStyal)Magic Fruit Leather DMT for IandI
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SHROOMSISAY01
Mr. Shrooms


Registered: 01/22/17
Posts: 3,850
Loc: Virginia, USA
Last seen: 4 days, 2 hours
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Re: Atmospheric Sterilization and Sawdust Bag/Block Prep And Procedure? [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
#27041111 - 11/15/20 07:03 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have to go wrap my furnace I will be back to answer you questions in a little while. A flow meter is how you put your water into the sub it measures it out so you have the proper water content in each bag it saves you a ton of time and effort a flow meter is one thing I would not go without...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-G3-4-Water-Flow-Control-LCD-Display-Flow-Sensor-Meter-Solenoid-Valve-Gauge/351677013062?hash=item51e1955c46:g:uq4AAOSwrddY7fsI
That is an example of a flow meter you ant at least a 3/4 I have a 1" that I use for mine.
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