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OfflineTomato_tuhmahto
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Registered: 10/14/20
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Re: Moisture in all my jars... Wtf [Re: Kizzle]
    #27053168 - 11/22/20 10:09 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Those jars are fine imo


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OfflineChardRich
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Registered: 04/16/19
Posts: 1,167
Loc: Upper Left USA
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Re: Moisture in all my jars... Wtf [Re: Tomato_tuhmahto]
    #27076298 - 12/06/20 10:59 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Well, I was so close. I had five LCs and so far, the spawn from three of them has made it about 2 weeks into colonization of substrate before producing trich :frown:

This is so infuriating. I have grain prep down to a t. Perfect moisture content and I leave them out for a week or so sometimes to make sure they are clean.

These LCs are from agar plates I cut 4 times to ensure clean myc.



This is the tub from the last jar I posted pics of. Two weeks into spawning, no signs of any mold, and then bam, a week before frutuing when the pins have just formed the trich hits. Third tub from three out of 5 lcs has gone bad. I assume it's on a matter of time before the next two show trich.

What's going on here??


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Edited by ChardRich (12/06/20 11:58 PM)


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OfflineChardRich
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Registered: 04/16/19
Posts: 1,167
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Re: Moisture in all my jars... Wtf [Re: ChardRich]
    #27076364 - 12/06/20 11:59 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Thank god the flow hood I ordered comes in the next few weeks.


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OfflineShroomoisseur
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Registered: 11/16/20
Posts: 138
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Re: Moisture in all my jars... Wtf [Re: ChardRich]
    #27076391 - 12/07/20 12:42 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Substrate it seems, if you culture is clean and grain is clean then what’s left?


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OfflineChardRich
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Registered: 04/16/19
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Re: Moisture in all my jars... Wtf [Re: Shroomoisseur]
    #27076397 - 12/07/20 12:49 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Dirty spawn. I asked the question, but I guess I knew better. Coir is contam resistant and won't harbor the trich. The dirty spawn will. That's why I never used to spawn wet jars!!


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InvisibleJosex
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Registered: 11/13/15
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Re: Moisture in all my jars... Wtf [Re: ChardRich]
    #27076446 - 12/07/20 01:49 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ChardRich said:


These LCs are from agar plates I cut 4 times to ensure clean myc.




Making clean inoculant is the easy part of this hobby, by far. I'd wager your LC's were clean. A contaminated LC would have shown clear signs shortly after inoculating those oats.

Quote:

ChardRich said:
Thank god the flow hood I ordered comes in the next few weeks.




If your problem is what I think it is, a FH is going to do nothing.

I think what's giving you those problems is the grain itself.
There's a tendency on this forum to think we kill all endospores with a 2 hrs cycle and IME that's simply ridiculous. If you run into a bad batch of grain you'd better switch grain or you're screwed.


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Invisibleshroower
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Registered: 06/10/06
Posts: 518
Loc: Europe
Re: Moisture in all my jars... Wtf [Re: Josex]
    #27076914 - 12/07/20 10:48 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

If I had to guess I'd say the culprit is probably your environment and/or coir or coir preparation. Endospores are produced by bacteria, you seem to have a mold problem.


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Moisture in all my jars... Wtf [Re: shroower]
    #27076927 - 12/07/20 10:54 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Bacteria weakens the colony and allows mold to get a foothold. Mold problems are usually caused by bacterial spawn.


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Invisibleshroower
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Registered: 06/10/06
Posts: 518
Loc: Europe
Re: Moisture in all my jars... Wtf [Re: Josex]
    #27076989 - 12/07/20 11:30 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

That could be; I'm just thinking that following sterilization of the grains and during the whole incubation period it didn't show evidence of bacterial contamination. If it is a problem with bacteria in this case the latency is really long, which makes me think the problem came after that.


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OfflineMarxcelium
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Registered: 05/12/20
Posts: 127
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Re: Moisture in all my jars... Wtf [Re: Josex]
    #27077138 - 12/07/20 01:10 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, man, switch up your grains and see how that goes.  I was having very similar issues with oats, but wheat has been a dream since I made the change.


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OfflineChardRich
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Registered: 04/16/19
Posts: 1,167
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Re: Moisture in all my jars... Wtf [Re: Josex]
    #27077175 - 12/07/20 01:42 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I would agree it has to bacteria allowing a path for the mold. How could the grains be the problem? I let them sit un-inocluated with no growth of any type of mold, and there is no mold during colonization of the grain.

That's why the whole point of this thread was my skepticism of the moisture in the jars, which to me, indicated bacteria.


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Moisture in all my jars... Wtf [Re: ChardRich]
    #27077231 - 12/07/20 02:08 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Nobody said anything about mold in your jars.

Quote:

ChardRich said:


I would agree it has to bacteria allowing a path for the mold.




This is what's all about. If you spawn iffy bacterial jars chances are you're going to see mold at some point.


You do what you want to do man, it's your grow. Just saying sometimes when you hit a wall, switching grains can make a hell of a difference. Working on your prep is also very important.


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OfflineChardRich
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Registered: 04/16/19
Posts: 1,167
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Re: Moisture in all my jars... Wtf [Re: Josex]
    #27077423 - 12/07/20 05:05 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I just doubt it's the grains. All my successful grows came from this exact grain prep, and I make sure they are as dry as can be before inoculating. Do rusty lids make any difference?


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Offlinemcnugget
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Re: Moisture in all my jars... Wtf [Re: ChardRich] * 1
    #27077664 - 12/07/20 07:26 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Try sterilizing your next batch for 3 hours.


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InvisibleSunny Skies
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Re: Moisture in all my jars... Wtf [Re: mcnugget]
    #27078288 - 12/08/20 07:11 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Try Foomans WBS tek with 1 bag of seed..you never know? have never had an issue and the seed is wet when loaded into the jars.


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OfflineTheBoJim
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Re: Moisture in all my jars... Wtf [Re: Josex]
    #27079260 - 12/08/20 06:46 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Josex said:
Quote:

ChardRich said:


These LCs are from agar plates I cut 4 times to ensure clean myc.




Making clean inoculant is the easy part of this hobby, by far. I'd wager your LC's were clean. A contaminated LC would have shown clear signs shortly after inoculating those oats.

Quote:

ChardRich said:
Thank god the flow hood I ordered comes in the next few weeks.




If your problem is what I think it is, a FH is going to do nothing.

I think what's giving you those problems is the grain itself.
There's a tendency on this forum to think we kill all endospores with a 2 hrs cycle and IME that's simply ridiculous. If you run into a bad batch of grain you'd better switch grain or you're screwed.




what makes a batch of grain bad?


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Invisibleshroower
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Registered: 06/10/06
Posts: 518
Loc: Europe
Re: Moisture in all my jars... Wtf [Re: Josex]
    #27079339 - 12/08/20 07:19 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

There's a tendency on this forum to think we kill all endospores with a 2 hrs cycle and IME that's simply ridiculous. If you run into a bad batch of grain you'd better switch grain or you're screwed.




Maybe not all but certainly most if you're hydrating the grains the right way. The problem with grains is not that endospores resist autoclave temperatures for hours, it's that the temperature sometimes doesn't reach the core of the grains in the middle of the jar.

I never had a quart jar of properly hydrated wheat or rye berries go bad to bacteria after 2h at 17 psi in 10+ years, on the other hand someone posted on discord an oat seedling in the middle of his colonized tub after doing a 5 minute simmer and going straight to the pressure cooker for 2h at 15psi. So, clearly that specific grain did not reach even close to 121C in the cycle or it couldn't possibly germinate, probably because it was too dry and heat couldn't reach it.


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OfflineFailboat
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Re: Moisture in all my jars... Wtf [Re: shroower]
    #27079345 - 12/08/20 07:26 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Kizzle explained the condensation in your jars. Those are pretty much perfect. That is how oats should look, and the moisture is irrelevant in this case


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Moisture in all my jars... Wtf [Re: Failboat]
    #27079821 - 12/09/20 02:07 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Quirkmeister92 said:
Kizzle explained the condensation in your jars. Those are pretty much perfect. That is how oats should look, and the moisture is irrelevant in this case




Fast forward 2 weeks, he spawned them and got mold from those perfect jars. Not making that up, you can read it here, if you have the time...


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Moisture in all my jars... Wtf [Re: shroower]
    #27079825 - 12/09/20 02:26 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

shroower said:
Quote:

There's a tendency on this forum to think we kill all endospores with a 2 hrs cycle and IME that's simply ridiculous. If you run into a bad batch of grain you'd better switch grain or you're screwed.




Maybe not all but certainly most if you're hydrating the grains the right way. The problem with grains is not that endospores resist autoclave temperatures for hours, it's that the temperature sometimes doesn't reach the core of the grains in the middle of the jar.

I never had a quart jar of properly hydrated wheat or rye berries go bad to bacteria after 2h at 17 psi in 10+ years, on the other hand someone posted on discord an oat seedling in the middle of his colonized tub after doing a 5 minute simmer and going straight to the pressure cooker for 2h at 15psi. So, clearly that specific grain did not reach even close to 121C in the cycle or it couldn't possibly germinate, probably because it was too dry and heat couldn't reach it.





First off, I want to make it clear that I'm not even sure that's OP's problem. Just brought up the subject of surviving endos as a possibility.


You guys living in the USA? Are just spoiled seriously. The quality of the grain you have there is just top-notch. You can get seed quality grain easily if you want but the feed grade you have there is also very good.

Where I live I can only get the worst shit imaginable, not exaggerating one bit. That's how you get to know what shit grain can do for ya. The slightest fuck up in the prep or an insufficient cycle of just 2 hours and I can expect bacteria. I've had so many instances where it was obvious bacterial spores did survive the PC that I could write a book.

Nonetheless, if you've been here on this forum long enough you get to know instances where even very well known cultivators experienced something like this at some point too.


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