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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #27041959 - 11/16/20 11:47 AM (16 days, 17 hours ago)

And now we have all this totalitarianism and existential dread with no boogeyman to blame it on. :feelsbadman:


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #27041975 - 11/16/20 11:58 AM (16 days, 17 hours ago)

America isn't totalitarian, though.  You don't even really believe it is, either.  You're just engaging in hyperbole.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Enlil] * 4
    #27042055 - 11/16/20 12:48 PM (16 days, 16 hours ago)

You can make an argument that the dread of nuclear holocaust being gone is a good thing, but now instead of school drills for hiding from nukes we have school drills for hiding from mass shooters.

Not to mention climate change, depressed wages, etc.

Quality of life for both Americans and Soviets were higher in 1960 than they are now. Well, straight white American men.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #27042060 - 11/16/20 12:49 PM (16 days, 16 hours ago)

Oh and our government is still churning out IMMINENT NUCLEAR STRIKE ON AMERICA propaganda all the time.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #27042078 - 11/16/20 01:09 PM (16 days, 16 hours ago)

So purposely setting up false narratives to misled the US population on geopolitical military issues is now considered a good policy and the ends justifies the means?

So let me ask, since confidence has been eroded due to these constant lies from government officials, why should we believe anything they say going forward?
I'm sure this information would be a great recruitment tool for future military conflicts. :facepalm:


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: qman]
    #27042154 - 11/16/20 02:01 PM (16 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Oh and our government is still churning out IMMINENT NUCLEAR STRIKE ON AMERICA propaganda all the time.



Not at all in the same way it was in the 70's. 

Quote:

qman said:
So purposely setting up false narratives to misled the US population on geopolitical military issues is now considered a good policy and the ends justifies the means?



You made that up, though.  I've seen no evidence that this happened.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #27042421 - 11/16/20 05:34 PM (16 days, 12 hours ago)

The 70s sucked for a lot of reasons though.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27042432 - 11/16/20 05:37 PM (16 days, 12 hours ago)

You weren't even there, dude.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Enlil]
    #27042459 - 11/16/20 05:58 PM (16 days, 11 hours ago)

Everything had an avocado color, and shag carpet everywhere. My 78 Grand Marquis even has it.


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“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #27042502 - 11/16/20 06:32 PM (16 days, 11 hours ago)

Used to have a grand marquis, 02. Drove that fucker into the ground, great car.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27042513 - 11/16/20 06:41 PM (16 days, 11 hours ago)

Yes....they are built to take an absoulte beat down, have owned a few . My 78 has the 460 and it is mashed accordingly.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #27042872 - 11/16/20 10:27 PM (16 days, 7 hours ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Any way you look at it, the fall of the soviet union was a good thing for America.  The fact that Reagan accomplished it without open war is great.  I'm not sure there was a way to accomplish it with less suffering.




This is a bit like saying "either way you look at it, the death of the co-owner of my assets was a good thing for me. The fact that I accomplished that death without open suspicion is great."

Either way, under this logic, a surprise nuke in the middle of Beijing, as long as it was a crippling decapitation strike, is a good policy.


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Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Kryptos]
    #27042892 - 11/16/20 10:37 PM (16 days, 7 hours ago)

Like it or not, sovereignty exists, and the USSR had become a threat to American security. Right and wrong don't come into play. Either the tactics resulted in a better outcome for America or it didn't. I'm not convinced that nuking China would result in a good outcome for America.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #27043028 - 11/16/20 11:37 PM (16 days, 6 hours ago)

Seems like a short-sighted view.

Objectively, when it comes to questions of sovereignty, it would be best for the US to kill every non-American and take their shit. This would effectively remove all threats to America, economic, social, or military. Therefore, total war is objectively the correct course of action (for this purpose, let's just assume complete victory).

Of course, summary destruction of anything not "proper American" would make life worse for Americans, by limiting variety. I like taco Tuesday. Further, it limits economic and social opportunities in the future.

Similarly, we are seeing the after-effects of Reagan's use of the military as a GDP pump: The longest war in US history, in which that one onion article that was talking about young adults deploying to the military bases they were conceived in came true, along with the rest of the bullshit that fall into the MIC category, including that being a third of the national budget and the entire political party that wants the government to literally cut all services except the police and military.

What Reagan did was integrate the economy with the military. This had the effects of forcing the USSR to do the same, which led to a collapse of the USSR, as their military cannibalized more of their economy. Honestly, this was as much a warning for the future as it was a geopolitical win. Now there is a lot of economic interest in keeping that military doing their military thing.

We did something similar with healthcare. I calculated it out in in detail in conspiracy a while back, but something like 3% of the US GDP currently consists of medical billing. That's a big, 3% GDP decline sized argument against any sort of socialized health care. When 3% of the economy is people arguing over the price of medical care, that's a whole lot of people that would be extremely annoyed with the idea of the government paying the same out on a procedure basis using tax money. There's nothing left to argue about, and there goes 3% of your GDP! Think of my stock portfolio the children!

Heh, we're devoting our economy to the argument over, and distribution of, life and death.

Banks are probably sliding into this category as well, I assume being an opponent of something like postal banking.

The US is becoming a country of grift. Of everyone jumping in and getting while the getting's good, and leaving the next guy holding the bag. Trump is an obvious example, but one thing that I found really interesting was with the twisting of the BLM point about it taking a village to raise a child into "destruction of the nuclear family". That's an interesting development of the concept of "rugged individualism". What it's saying isn't just that it's your job to raise your kids, but also that it's explicitly not your job to help raise my kids. I, and only I, can legitimately decide on what I teach my children, and I get to shape their worldview and perspective.

This is how you create, at best, a feudal system of lords out for themselves using common folk as fodder. At worst, a complete atomization of society into isolated family units that rarely interact outside of their clans. A culture in which only you and your family matter, and fuck everybody else. A culture in which it is perfectly acceptable to take someone's watch when they aren't looking, and their wallet when they're looking for their watch. Because they don't matter unless they're family. And even then...eh?

I think Reagan, whether he knew it or (more likely) not, started that.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Kryptos]
    #27043034 - 11/16/20 11:41 PM (16 days, 6 hours ago)

I completely disagree. How do you figure it would be best to kill every non American? That sounds like a horrible idea.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Enlil]
    #27043047 - 11/16/20 11:46 PM (16 days, 5 hours ago)

Because it would remove all non-american threats by definition.


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Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Kryptos]
    #27043056 - 11/16/20 11:56 PM (16 days, 5 hours ago)

Why not kill everyone then? If the only goal is to remove danger, extinction is a surefire solution. You're really just making an argument from absurdity and completely ignoring the entire purpose of civilization.

Being a part of a global marketplace is beneficial to America.  Having nuclear weapons aimed at us by a superpower that has repeatedly threated to end our way of life...not so much.



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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #27043187 - 11/17/20 03:18 AM (16 days, 2 hours ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Because it would remove all non-american threats by definition.




Such a mindless fantasy, one wonders why even to bother considering it --- just for starters--- almost all our affordable goods are produced in China and southeast asia, by what is close to slave labor. At this point there is no way to change this.


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If it was, Buddha would have sold Hallmark cards.



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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: laughingdog]
    #27043786 - 11/17/20 02:17 PM (15 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Being a part of a global marketplace is beneficial to America.  Having nuclear weapons aimed at us by a superpower that has repeatedly threated to end our way of life...not so much.



How did they "repeatedly threated to end our way of life"?

As was explained in the documentary, the world realized that mutually assured destruction made war between the superpowers impossible to win, and many countries (including the Soviet Union) were ready to move towards a less hostile coexistence.  It was Reagan who rejected this and wanted to eliminate communism from the world, as it was becoming increasingly popular in poorer countries.


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Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27043816 - 11/17/20 02:42 PM (15 days, 15 hours ago)

Oh, let's see...maybe by putting nuclear missiles 100 miles from the U.S.


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