Home | Community | Message Board


High Mountain Compost
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

North Spore Shop: Bulk Substrate

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 25,254
Loc: California, US Flag
Last seen: 1 hour, 21 minutes
Reagan's Secret War
    #27040540 - 11/15/20 03:04 PM (17 days, 14 hours ago)

I just watched a fascinating documentary called "Reagan's Secret War".

After mutually assured destruction appeared to make WWIII impossible to win, many countries started moving towards a better and more peaceful coexistence with the Soviet Union.

Of course, Reagan didn't want any part of coexisting with communism, so he:

a)  Ramped up US military spending and made it appear that the US was getting ready for a potential attack, to include military exercises along Russia's border, and launched the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI), intimidating the Soviet Union into putting 50% of its GDP into its defense, crippling its production of other things.

b)  Teamed up with religious extremists in Afghanistan against the Soviet Union to get them to spend even more on their military.

c)  Tricked the Soviets into thinking the US military was more powerful than it actually was.

d)  Provided Soviet spies with technology and software that had Trojan Horses built in to ensure they would fail over time.

e)  Worked with Saudi Arabia to cut oil prices to reduce Soviet oil income.


But the main focus of the documentary was how Reagan created a "Deception Committee" which, among other things, successfully tricked Sweden, a neutral country, into letting it to get used by the US military as a sort of 'unsinkable aircraft carrier' by allowing US military aircraft in Sweden close to the Soviet Union.  Here is that story:

In October 1981, a Soviet sub ran aground in Swedish territory.  A Swedish military commander who first showed up to the scene couldn't believe the stupidity of the sub's captain, but was ordered not to interview the captain for answers.  A Swedish dive team found evidence that the sub intentionally ran itself aground and actually pushed itself into shallower waters than it could handle.  But the media reported the incident as evidence of Soviet spying and aggression against Sweden.

In spite of this incident, the Swedes still elected Olof Palme as their Prime Minister who was a Social Democrat and vocal against US imperialism.  Olof Palme was very much disliked by the elites in Sweden, who sided with the US and Britain.

After this incident, periscopes were continuously spotted in Swedish waters, stoking fears of Soviet aggression.  Swedish experts who were interviewed said they knew Soviet submarines don't just stick their periscopes out of the water for the world to see, especially when they're in Swedish waters.  And the Soviets said they weren't their subs, and even invited the Swedes to bomb the shit out of any subs they thought were Soviet in Swedish waters.  Of course, no subs were ever sank, but the media ran with the story of Soviet aggression and pubic fear of Soviet aggression rose from 27% to 83%.  Even the Soviet ambassador to Sweden said he was surprised at how easy it was for the media to manipulate public opinion like that in a democratic country like Sweden.

Years later, it was discovered that the Swedish military knew these were NATO periscopes, and the US Deputy Chief of Navy operations admitted with a smile that the US "could have been" behind the Soviet sub grounding and the mysterious periscopes that were spotted.

But at the end of the day, Communism was defeated and capitalism and the military industrial complex won, so perhaps it was worth it?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleEnlilM
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 53,012
Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27040844 - 11/15/20 06:06 PM (17 days, 11 hours ago)

Sounds like solid tactics that paid off.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 5,291
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 6 hours, 28 minutes
Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27040874 - 11/15/20 06:29 PM (17 days, 11 hours ago)

Reagan was balling Star Wars and the USSR spent themselves out on the bluff.

To answer the 2nd question, the military industrial complex has run a muck....undoubtedly, right now Joe is getting intel reports that would scare the shit out of anyone(like past presidents) concocted of some truth and defense contract interests. I see no sign that the MIC is going away soon.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (11/15/20 08:34 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 25,254
Loc: California, US Flag
Last seen: 1 hour, 21 minutes
Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #27041225 - 11/15/20 10:38 PM (17 days, 7 hours ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Sounds like solid tactics that paid off.



Yes, it paid off for the military industrial complex and the elite.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleEnlilM
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 53,012
Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27041229 - 11/15/20 10:42 PM (17 days, 7 hours ago)

The cold War was a miserable time to live in America. Winning that war made life much better here.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 25,254
Loc: California, US Flag
Last seen: 1 hour, 21 minutes
Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Enlil]
    #27041244 - 11/15/20 10:57 PM (17 days, 6 hours ago)

Agreed, because Reagan scared the shit out of the world as evidenced by this documentary.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleEnlilM
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 53,012
Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27041247 - 11/15/20 10:58 PM (17 days, 6 hours ago)

The cold war fear predated Reagan's presidency.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 25,254
Loc: California, US Flag
Last seen: 1 hour, 21 minutes
Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Enlil]
    #27041260 - 11/15/20 11:06 PM (17 days, 6 hours ago)

Sure, but as I mentioned above and as noted in the documentary, the fake American news of Soviet aggression made Swedish fear of Soviet aggression rise from 27% to 83%.  I'm sure the Swedes weren't the only ones to hear the fake fear mongering.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleEnlilM
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 53,012
Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27041265 - 11/15/20 11:09 PM (17 days, 6 hours ago)

I'm not talking about the swedes. I grew up with constant warnings and drills for impending nuclear holocaust. Ending that was the best thing Reagan accomplished


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 5,291
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 6 hours, 28 minutes
Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27041285 - 11/15/20 11:18 PM (17 days, 6 hours ago)

Not doubting US propaganda (we had the Red Scare, too)you referance; however, the economic differences between the US and USSR helped fuel the Cold War itself. Didnt USSR refuse trade with the West? We have a war economy; so not sure what the Russians expected.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (11/15/20 11:19 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 25,254
Loc: California, US Flag
Last seen: 1 hour, 21 minutes
Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #27041474 - 11/16/20 02:42 AM (17 days, 3 hours ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Not doubting US propaganda (we had the Red Scare, too)you referance; however, the economic differences between the US and USSR helped fuel the Cold War itself.



I think it was a fear of communism gaining in popularity in poorer countries.

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Didnt USSR refuse trade with the West? We have a war economy; so not sure what the Russians expected.



They wanted to be as self sufficient as possible, but they traded with the West for whatever they wanted/needed.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 25,254
Loc: California, US Flag
Last seen: 1 hour, 21 minutes
Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #27041475 - 11/16/20 02:43 AM (17 days, 3 hours ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I'm not talking about the swedes. I grew up with constant warnings and drills for impending nuclear holocaust. Ending that was the best thing Reagan accomplished



Why were in fear of nuclear holocaust then and not now?  Fear mongering about communism I think.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBrian Jones
Club 27
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 8,204
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 15 hours, 32 minutes
Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27041695 - 11/16/20 09:01 AM (16 days, 20 hours ago)

Part of it was seeing that the domino theory was not going to play out.

But yeah, anticommunism was just about a secular religion in the U.S.

Then the MIC shifted to being all about oil, but it has become apparent that we don't need the Middle East's oil, so I'm not sure how they will sell it now. I expect it will be about China; their growing economic dominance, their potential military alliance with Russia.

Then there's radical Islam. Maybe we don't need their oil, buy you can buy a lot of weapons with oil money. I would fear ICBMs in some of those countries more than I was of the USSR. Everyone seems to hate Iran now, so see how that progresses.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleEnlilM
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 53,012
Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #27041808 - 11/16/20 10:20 AM (16 days, 19 hours ago)

Any way you look at it, the fall of the soviet union was a good thing for America.  The fact that Reagan accomplished it without open war is great.  I'm not sure there was a way to accomplish it with less suffering.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 28,251
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 8 hours, 37 minutes
Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #27041826 - 11/16/20 10:33 AM (16 days, 19 hours ago)

We couldn’t just not waged a global war against communism :shrug:


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleEnlilM
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 53,012
Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27041835 - 11/16/20 10:36 AM (16 days, 19 hours ago)

Okay, so how would we bring about the fall of the Soviet Union?


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBrian Jones
Club 27
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 8,204
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 15 hours, 32 minutes
Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Enlil]
    #27041890 - 11/16/20 11:13 AM (16 days, 18 hours ago)

I think Gorbachev had more to do with it than "we" did, and the process began earlier with Andropov.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleEnlilM
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 53,012
Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27041898 - 11/16/20 11:16 AM (16 days, 18 hours ago)

I agree, and I'd go further in saying that the Soviet Union was going to fail economically regardless.  Still, the fall of the USSR was good for America, so our leaders should have done everything they could to encourage it.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBrian Jones
Club 27
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 8,204
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 15 hours, 32 minutes
Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Enlil]
    #27041920 - 11/16/20 11:24 AM (16 days, 18 hours ago)

Reagan gave them a good hard shove, but it cost us an awful lot of money for something that was going to happen anyway.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleEnlilM
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 53,012
Re: Reagan's Secret War [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27041928 - 11/16/20 11:31 AM (16 days, 18 hours ago)

Like me, you're old enough to remember the cold war "verge of WWIII" mindset we lived in.  I'm glad that's over, as much as it may have cost.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

North Spore Shop: Bulk Substrate

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* The secret war on Iraq Xlea321 627 1 12/28/02 05:25 AM
by Buddha5254
* New US Nuclear Plan. 7 Countries Named Targets. Ellis Dee 1,705 17 03/13/02 01:06 AM
by Jammer
* Ronald Reagan, 93, dies
( 1 2 3 4 all )
daba 4,573 60 06/09/04 12:14 PM
by unbeliever
* Hiroshima mayor says world moving to war...
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
Edame 7,764 105 08/09/03 04:24 AM
by Autonomous
* War people, why do you support the war?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
rhizo 7,953 145 07/05/06 11:56 AM
by Phred
* World War 3??? LiquidSmoke 1,117 14 12/21/02 11:15 AM
by johnnyfive
* The war on (certain) drugs Psilocybeingzz 488 1 01/27/03 06:01 AM
by Xlea321
* Arming Iraq and the Path to War dee_N_ae 881 3 04/18/03 11:10 PM
by JohnnyRespect

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
607 topic views. 2 members, 2 guests and 6 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic ]
Search this thread:
Everything Mushrooms
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2020 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.038 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 14 queries.