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OfflineNikon Addict
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Aeruginascin Identified in Psilocybe cubensis Magic Mushrooms
    #27040457 - 11/15/20 01:15 PM (12 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

Aeruginascin seems to modify the pharmacological action of psilocybin to give an always euphoric mood during the ingestion of mushrooms.




Aeruginascin Identified in Psilocybe cubensis Magic Mushrooms


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OfflineskOsH
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Re: Aeruginascin Identified in Psilocybe cubensis Magic Mushrooms [Re: Nikon Addict]
    #27040603 - 11/15/20 02:36 PM (12 days, 14 hours ago)

Interesting read. I didn't even know about norpsilocin as well, or that so many non psilocybe mushrooms contain psilocybin.

I need to get a book on mushrooms in my area. That is fascinating stuff


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Invisiblebreeg89
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Re: Aeruginascin Identified in Psilocybe cubensis Magic Mushrooms [Re: skOsH]
    #27040913 - 11/15/20 05:50 PM (12 days, 11 hours ago)

So apparently we still know next to nothing about the targets of this. We know it binds 5HT2A, and that's about it. If it's really inducing euphoria, there must be other targets. Someone needs to do a thorough receptorome binding study.


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Aeruginascin Identified in Psilocybe cubensis Magic Mushrooms [Re: breeg89]
    #27041026 - 11/15/20 07:07 PM (12 days, 10 hours ago)

https://psychedelicreview.com/compound/4-oh-tmt/

5-meo-2-tmt has a much lower potency than psilocin as well, active in the 75-150 mg range according to tihkal, but everythings in different positions do don't know how much you can read into that...don't know what other TMT analogs are in tihkal.

I don't think the anecdotal reports of people who accidentally consumed psychedelic mushrooms are that great an information source to base such presumptions on, especially if coming from different population groups.

At what levels are aeruginascin present anyways? I'm betting they are fairly low.

edit: Just noticed where the article says "levels of aeruginascin in the mushrooms were comparable to those of psilocybin and baeocystin."

But doesn't say anything about psilocin, which I am guessing are much higher...unless it has unusually high levels of baeocystin hen aeruginascin content is probably minor.

Maybe there's something to it, but I'd like to see more evidence and at least a proposed method of action before I'd start believing it.

It could be as simple as Inocybe aeruginascens being less potent, so when accidental ingestion occurs they receive a lower dose and therefore less jarring experience.

Maybe someone here as some experience with Inocybe aeruginascens, and could chime in?

4-aco-tmt is a prodrug, and easily produced from 4-aco-dmt, if anyone really wanted to test it.


Edited by Holybullshit (11/15/20 07:43 PM)


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Invisiblebreeg89
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Re: Aeruginascin Identified in Psilocybe cubensis Magic Mushrooms [Re: Holybullshit]
    #27041044 - 11/15/20 07:18 PM (12 days, 9 hours ago)

^ agreed. I can't access the paper about the comparison between Inocybe aeruginascens and the "species with high levels of psilocybin and psilocin" (ref 4), but if it's just comparison of trip reports and not a controlled study then it doesn't mean much.


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OfflineMikeTesserect
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Re: Aeruginascin Identified in Psilocybe cubensis Magic Mushrooms [Re: Nikon Addict]
    #27041528 - 11/16/20 03:23 AM (12 days, 1 hour ago)

dysphoria and " ego death" are the negative side effects caused by high doses. how ppl find value in overdoses idk. from my experience those effects are suicidal and completely mad. poison is dose dependent


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OfflinePeterPumpkinEater
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Re: Aeruginascin Identified in Psilocybe cubensis Magic Mushrooms [Re: MikeTesserect]
    #27041736 - 11/16/20 08:30 AM (11 days, 20 hours ago)

is it synthesized? and for sale legally due to obscurity? Dose?


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OfflinePeterPumpkinEater
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Re: Aeruginascin Identified in Psilocybe cubensis Magic Mushrooms [Re: PeterPumpkinEater]
    #27041738 - 11/16/20 08:32 AM (11 days, 20 hours ago)

I have always heard "ego death" toted as a positive thing. Why do you say its negative? What then in your words are ego death? I'm not arguing just asking, don't really know tbh.


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OfflineNeurotech
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Re: Aeruginascin Identified in Psilocybe cubensis Magic Mushrooms [Re: MikeTesserect] * 1
    #27042189 - 11/16/20 01:28 PM (11 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

MikeTesserect said:
dysphoria and " ego death" are the negative side effects caused by high doses. how ppl find value in overdoses idk. from my experience those effects are suicidal and completely mad. poison is dose dependent




I have to respectfully disagree with the assumption that ego death and dysphoria are necessarily negative experiences. For many, ego death is the goal. It is the extreme of oneness and unity that is at the root of the psychedelic experience.Dysphoria, while inherently unpleasant, is often a useful emotion. Our unpleasant emotions, like dysphoria, anger, shame, anxiety - these are survival mechanisms that keep us out of danger. Trips can bring dysphoria to light and bring change. Analogy: If my hand is on a hot stove, I really want to feel the pain so I can make a change. No pain, no gain? Psychotherapy isn't an all good feeling experience either.


Edited by Neurotech (11/16/20 01:30 PM)


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OfflineI AM SWIM
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Re: Aeruginascin Identified in Psilocybe cubensis Magic Mushrooms [Re: MikeTesserect]
    #27042602 - 11/16/20 06:41 PM (11 days, 10 hours ago)

Quote:

MikeTesserect said:
dysphoria and " ego death" are the negative side effects caused by high doses. how ppl find value in overdoses idk. from my experience those effects are suicidal and completely mad. poison is dose dependent




Ego death isn't necessarily a negative side effect. It's subjective, hence why people dose to the point of Ego Death.


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Aeruginascin Identified in Psilocybe cubensis Magic Mushrooms [Re: Neurotech]
    #27043887 - 11/17/20 02:29 PM (10 days, 14 hours ago)

Quote:

Neurotech said:
Quote:

MikeTesserect said:
dysphoria and " ego death" are the negative side effects caused by high doses. how ppl find value in overdoses idk. from my experience those effects are suicidal and completely mad. poison is dose dependent




I have to respectfully disagree with the assumption that ego death and dysphoria are necessarily negative experiences. For many, ego death is the goal. It is the extreme of oneness and unity that is at the root of the psychedelic experience.Dysphoria, while inherently unpleasant, is often a useful emotion. Our unpleasant emotions, like dysphoria, anger, shame, anxiety - these are survival mechanisms that keep us out of danger. Trips can bring dysphoria to light and bring change. Analogy: If my hand is on a hot stove, I really want to feel the pain so I can make a change. No pain, no gain? Psychotherapy isn't an all good feeling experience either.




Look guys, this is in the context of people accidentally and unknowingly dosing active mushrooms...not psychonauts looking for self-improvement. In that context they are absolutely negative side effects.


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Invisiblebreeg89
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Re: Aeruginascin Identified in Psilocybe cubensis Magic Mushrooms [Re: Holybullshit]
    #27044655 - 11/17/20 11:08 PM (10 days, 6 hours ago)

Even when you're seeking ego death, it's not necessarily a pleasant experience. On the contrary, the way it overrides our normal mental processes that shape our perceived place in the universe is almost certain to cause disorientation and fear. The most positive aspect of ego death is when the mushrooms start to wear off and you can marvel at emerging from that experience with your sanity.


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OfflinePeterPumpkinEater
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Re: Aeruginascin Identified in Psilocybe cubensis Magic Mushrooms [Re: breeg89]
    #27044970 - 11/18/20 08:15 AM (9 days, 20 hours ago)

In that case I experienced ego death (?) once during the onset of a shroom trip.

Everything was getting racy as I was walking alone in the woods, the leaves and branches where "too much", I started getting bewildered and uncomfortable and was walking faster, worrying about having taken the shrooms and if it was a bad idea, and WTF was going to happen, but I soon forgot the discomfort and (I was unaware of the exact change or moment of change, or the transition from this panicked state to total and profound bliss), but as I walked up the slopes I came into sunlight at the edge of this precipitous hill with a large swathe of wild grasses in the sunlight, above which stood a coppice of tall and dense pine trees. I had been in the forest and mountain's shadow, and I mean I was soaring by the time I lay on this rock in the sun, the rock was in the open grassy area, and remember the phrase "go to the sky where the Indians fly on the wings of a regal eagle" I mean I was pretty high...
it felt amazing.

So would that "onset" be an ego death, where I totally forget myself and all the shit from my life? Or the point where I just totally forget?

Because it was I suppose the total absence of awareness of my life or me, I was just enraptured by nature and what I was feeling, and forgot myself (is that ego death?). As I walked further up the mountain, the sun was setting, and it became windy. The bushes where swaying in the sun beyond the shadowy pines on the higher slopes, and they looked like an ocean almost, of waves, swaying and undulating mesmerisingly in the late sunlight. I had the feeling of complete and total freedom and felt like I could just run into the bushes "forever", free and not care about anything, but realised I should get home, and that it was going to get dark and I had a long way down the mountain. As I walked down the sense of "returning" home was also a spiritual one. I suppose that was a positive type of ego death, and  a sort of rebirth? It was truly amazing... I'm glad I didn't run into the wilderness like a fool. In the past few years there have also been a lot of baboons around there, I'm SO fuckin' glad I didn't encounter those things, OMG... never tripping there again btw :wink:


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Aeruginascin Identified in Psilocybe cubensis Magic Mushrooms [Re: PeterPumpkinEater]
    #27045140 - 11/18/20 10:20 AM (9 days, 18 hours ago)

Ego death is very subjective, there is no real concrete definition. To me, if you were able to walk and aware of your body, I wouldn't call it what I experience as full on ego death...but it does seem like you were on the verge or experiencing it at a lower level.

Though I've only experienced it twice, and only once on mushrooms...the other time on ibogaine, a mix of whole and extract.
The ibogaine experience was MUCH more powerful, it was a complete and total and lasting out of body experience where my consciousnesses seemed to travel to the ends of the universe where I encountered what seemed to be an ethereal force taking the shape of an orb resembling a gassy planet which then intermingled with and took over my own thoughts.

I assume this was a projection of my subconscious or perhaps the mind cloud(which I very much believe to exist after having multiple experiences with my wife and close friends where we reliably experience a form of telepathy or simultaneous consciousness with each other on psychs, and witnessing evidence of the mind cloud while sober with relative strangers), resulting in many different epiphanies and the revealing of powerful truths on a variety of subjects, that I tried desperately to hold onto as the experience faded, it was such a magnitude and type of knowledge that it was more like it imprinted on me rather than leaving my with much I could convey with language.

And at the time I was having extreme ataxia, in the middle of opioid WD, so to be unaware of my body for a substantial amount of time seemed like an impossibility until it happened.

Ego death on cubes still resulted in an out of body experience, but I was still very much grounded to this plane and maintained a more linear form of thought. I had a similar experience on LSD as well, but it fell short of what I would label ego death.

When I was on LSD I begged for a pen and paper, as I felt it was so important to record what I was accessing...but one was not available and it was coming so fast I doubt I could have gotten anything of meaning down anyways.

High dose ibogaine trips are without a doubt some of the most powerful experiences I've ever had... but its not pleasant at all, even sans opioid WD. It's kind of like ketamine on top of tryps, but less dreamy and are still able to hold a linear train of thought.


Edited by Holybullshit (11/18/20 10:36 AM)


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OfflinePeterPumpkinEater
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Re: Aeruginascin Identified in Psilocybe cubensis Magic Mushrooms [Re: Holybullshit]
    #27046659 - 11/19/20 02:01 AM (9 days, 3 hours ago)

Ibogaine not pleasant at all yet you say it was amazing travelling to the orb at the end of the Universe...? How do you mean unpleasant? I don't like unpleasant things, I've once had an horrendous shroom trip, I was on my knees holding onto the blades of grass on our lawn with my head on the ground, and saw this red devil face with two horns, and our wooden table, made of swirls in the wood, where alive like Jupiter's eye, I mean it was really warping my mind - weirdly my friend from tripper friend from UK phoned right in the middle of the trip. I had a twitching thumb as the trip wore done... was a very bad experience. Otherwise  <3 shrooms all my other trips where sublime, that one onset was a bit panicky.

So I'm curious as to how unpleasant ibogaine is. Did it crack your opioid addiction? I will be honest based on what you said, no matter what, I shall never try it. Could you suggest that maybe I Should? I would use shrooms for neurological benefit as well as psycho-spiritual, or whatever... Maybe a little LSD, if it is from a trusted vendor... I'm totally against the totally recreational attitude persons have towards chems tbh, anyhoo.

That ego death sounds cool. I've never done DMT so I suppose that is an automatic ego death? The 5 or 15 minute DMT smoke-trip?

anyways...

ketamine on tryps, dang...!

I would like to use ketamine. I am curious if you wake up out of body in "the" real practical world rather than an hallucinogenic style reality. I've had a friend describe it and also saw a documentary about people who died" while on ketamine describing the surgery room and people in the room that they where not supposed to have... strange dissociative... very alluring. Also heard John Lilly say he also had a hellish / devilish experience on Ketamine...

Sorry for rambling and being opinionated, I  don't mean to offend or argue :wink:


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OfflineThe Thing
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Re: Aeruginascin Identified in Psilocybe cubensis Magic Mushrooms [Re: PeterPumpkinEater]
    #27046690 - 11/19/20 03:12 AM (9 days, 1 hour ago)

Hey fwiw ive been reading trip reports on Erowid everyday for near on 3 years now. It is an amazing resource and you will find so many answers to so many questions in there. I highly recommend a peruse.


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OfflineHolybullshit
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Re: Aeruginascin Identified in Psilocybe cubensis Magic Mushrooms [Re: PeterPumpkinEater]
    #27046785 - 11/19/20 07:18 AM (8 days, 21 hours ago)

Its physically unpleasant most of all, very strong ataxia, and its a mindfuck that comes with a fair bit of dysphoria. There's no giggling, no I love you man, no getting lost in patterns...its powerful, but not fun.

It did help with my addiction, but its no magic bullet, I relapsed later but it was the last time I did and it was only for a short period.

If you like taking heroic doses and pushing the limits and love to try novel substances for non-hedonistic purposes(which is me), sure give Ibogaine a try. But if you are the type who takes modest doses and don't like uncomfortable trips its probably not for you.

Although I could imagine micro-dosing ibogaine could be fruitful. Or taking small doses daily, or weekly, for an extended window to break other addictions.

I don't really think the one off mega dose is super helpful for people who already truly want to quit, but it could inspire those who are on the fence. I think moderate to lower doses at short intervals would probably be more helpful for addiction than a mega dose. It did help my push past the apex of WD, but I dosed twice 1 day apart.

Take note that I took large doses, more moderate doses would surely be more manageable...I might try Ibogaine again one day, at lower doses, but its not something I look back on fondly.

And don't knock ketamine on tryps, now thats amazing and enjoyable.

Quote:

That ego death sounds cool. I've never done DMT so I suppose that is an automatic ego death? The 5 or 15 minute DMT smoke-trip?




No, not at all, I don't think reaching that level with smoked DMT would be easy...even if you could smoke enough or did a bong hit its just not enough time for your mind to get out of the way.

For me, after reading all the reports on DMT, the first time I tried it, it was very underwhelming. But I had lots of psychedelic experience before smoking DMT. Yeah, its strong, yeah it comes on fast...but its very similar to mushrooms, it just comes on super fast so you can't ease yourself into it. I mean, I guess if you've never done high dose mushrooms or any dmt analog RCs then smoked DMT would blow your mind, but its really not as powerful as some people make it seem. Oral DMT+MAOI is more powerful than smoked DMT.

Honestly, I think a lot of people who write DMT trip reports take advantage of artistic freedom to embellish the narrative. Possibly in order to convey to the readers what they were feeling rather than what they were seeing; maybe just for attention or an attempt to make the experience more than it was. But all that talking to aliens nonsense is bullshit.


Edited by Holybullshit (11/19/20 07:53 AM)


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OfflinePeterPumpkinEater
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Re: Aeruginascin Identified in Psilocybe cubensis Magic Mushrooms [Re: Holybullshit]
    #27048335 - 11/20/20 05:07 AM (8 days, 2 minutes ago)

I may want to try DMT but I am a pussy when it comes to being a psychonaut, I really do not want to force boundaries when it comes to my psyche...
I don't think I would try ibogaine, I may read up on it. Its been likened to a meeting God type of experience, but from what you say, I don't think I want to meet him in that case :p

I've never done ketamine on tryps, or in fact any ketamine. I may want to try ketamine though, in a clinical setting - again I have had a pretty rough life, an unordinary one, and do not want to subject myself to psychological trauma - hence my love of shroomies :smile:

Oh, and thing, thanks for the reminder about Erowid, I totally forgot about Erowid for so many years. Was a big find for a while many years ago. a website on the margins of my awareness.


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Edited by PeterPumpkinEater (11/20/20 05:08 AM)


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