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Sittin_On_A_Toilet
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Registered: 10/17/20
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My first month learning this hobby - Learn from my mistakes! 1
#27039803 - 11/15/20 01:13 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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First, a huge thanks to this community; I've spent probably 200 hours reading posts here. About a month ago I started with my first spore syringe (B+), and since have developed healthy, contam free growth on agar, completed 20+ agar transfers, prepped 7.5 LBS bulk WBS that went into myco bags, and inoculated with whole colonized agar dishes. Anyone more experienced reading this I do have some questions, but I'm going to post those on my grow log I'll make seperate from this post.
To anyone just starting to get into this hobby, there are an INSANE amount of different teks out there. You will see teks that: contradict other teks, require more expensive equipment, cut out steps from other similar teks, ect. This post is aimed at getting you over the information overload stage and into actually doing something. The best ways to learn this hobby is to read EVERYTHING, take notes, and dive in!
FIRST AND FOREMOST, JUST BUY A DAMN PRESSURE COOKER AND DON'T TAKE SHORTCUTS ON THE FIRST STEP. If you're short on cash get a small one and do many batches. But I highly recommend getting AT LEAST a 23 Qt Pressure Cooker.
I ordered my spore syringe, where do I start?
First, make sure you're thinking about things in order. Don't plan how many pounds you want to harvest per week while waiting on your first spore syringe to arrive. In my opinion, the ONLY things a beginner just starting should be thinking about are: 1. Preparing everything you need to maintain a sterile substrate and inoculation environment. (hint: A simple Still Air Box (SAB) and good sanitation discipline are all you need to work with Agar) 2. Choosing a Tek to take you from spore syringe to stable colonization (Agar makes this sooooo easy, here's the first tek I used to prep agar jars: No Pour Technique . I found this Tek recently and might've tried it instead of the mason jar no pours intially: No Pours in Little Tupperware
Here are a couple pictures of my most aggressively growing jar from the no pour Tek:


The no pour agar is the way to go for your first experience with agar. If your mason jar lids have an inoculation port, you can drip and drag spore solution across agar without ever opening the sterile agar. Do this on 10+ jars and hopefully your syringe will be sterile enough so at least 1 jar will have no contam. I only had 1 contam out of 10, and it was because I forgot the seal on 1 jar.... Even if all the jars contaminate, agar is your only hope of salvaging the spore syringe (you can seperate healthy growth from contam on agar through a few transfers).
But there are downsides to using a no pour technique like I did: The lids are opaque and I cannot see the growth well. It's very difficult to eliminate excess water/condensation. I can't use petri dishes with the no pour tech because they melt in the pressure cooker.
I recently tried a 'pour agar' technique and ended up not reheating it enough to melt it all so it was kinda chunky. But I said screw it and poured them anyways. Here's 1 of 3 plates where I am practicing isolating into a 'monoculture' from a rhyzo section of growth in my super aggressive jars:

But regardless of how YOU want to go from syringe to colony, focus on eliminating the need for a spore syringe. Because I consistently do agar to agar transfers, I have no need for my spore syringe any more. Starting from a spore syringe is like growing a tree from a seed. Starting with colonized agar is like growing a tree from well established roots.
Ok, what do I do with all these colonized agar plates?
I decided to use Wild Bird Seed (WBS) as my bulk substrate. Because the pandemic, mason jars are hard to find so I ordered 'myco bags' with a fresh air exchange (FAE) filter. Here is the Tek I use to prep my grain bags: Frank's WBS Prep . Right as I pull the bags out of the PC I seal them at the very tip.
After sterilization I put the bags in my sterilized SAB within my sterilized 'clean room' (the less pet/human traffic room the better!). Then I open 1 agar dish, cut it into 6-8 sections, place lid back on agar, cut the WBS bag seal, remove the agar lid, flip the agar upside down in the grain bag, and use the scalpel to scoop them into the bag. I then seal the bag inside my SAB. This is as far as I've made it with bulk substrate, I'm about a week in since inoculating. Will create another post dedicated to my first spawn/casing experiments.
Here's 1 of my bags, about 50% colonized after only 6 days! Bag pictures are really hard to see.

Other random advice:
DO NOT get lost in minute details. Remember, mushrooms grow on literal shit. For example, your mushrooms won't care if your bird seed is 48% carbs vs 50% carbs. Don't be alarmed when agar, liquid culture, bulk substrate, casing, ect recipes made by different trusted cultivators will often vary widely.
Deviating from a Tek without knowing what you're doing will cause you to fail. For example, if you followed the recipe for bulk rye berry substrate prep, but used WBS instead, the WBS would be a massive clumpy mess. That's because you cannot boil WBS, only a slight simmer. Rye is boiled for 10 mins.
Just like in cooking, it's critical to learn to rely on your own senses instead of exact temps/times from a Tek writer. Learn what properly hydrated WBS feels like.
Get a simple species to start with (golden teachers or B+) and don't worry about incubating. While heat will speed up colonization, it will speed up bacterial contamination growth much more. Be patient.
Don't try to jump straight into a bulk grow from your spore syringe. Keep in mind, a simple tek and a fast tek are 2 different things. You will always have better results if you don't look for shortcuts. If you need to wait 24 hours for something to soak don't stop halfway through. Don't worry about your speed of colonization at first. Just keep practicing, reading, and taking notes on your experiments.
Last but not least, my favorite resource I've found on this site: Bodhisatta's Simplified Cultivation Methods
Bodhisatta convinced me through his posts/comments to start with agar from my spore syringe. At the time I was going to go from spore syringe to liquid culture fist (apparently a bad idea). His videos are very in depth and cover everything you can think of, all the way down to wrapping an agar plate. So many things in this hobby seem very simple, but learning proper technique is very important.
Thanks for reading, I'm looking forward to becoming a part of this community.
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GrinchGrower
N00B



Registered: 10/02/20
Posts: 682
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: My first month learning this hobby - Learn from my mistakes! [Re: Sittin_On_A_Toilet]
#27039825 - 11/15/20 01:42 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm in learning mode myself and find all the different nuances pretty fascinating. Your point about relying on your senses is partly true I think. You definitely can make small adjustments to improve your process based on your environment/space/tools etc. I think it is important to make incremental changes so you can track what works and what doesn't though. Good choice on going to agar!
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Sittin_On_A_Toilet
Stranger
Registered: 10/17/20
Posts: 16
Last seen: 3 years, 19 days
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Re: My first month learning this hobby - Learn from my mistakes! [Re: GrinchGrower]
#27040149 - 11/15/20 08:50 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes! It's great to try to research why 2 teks are different. The answer is usually both teks work fine and its a preference. But sometimes you find controlled grows where someone actually took the time to prove out that their tek was superior to another popular opinion or way of growing.
How did you go from your first syringe to something fully colonized?
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Sittin_On_A_Toilet
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Registered: 10/17/20
Posts: 16
Last seen: 3 years, 19 days
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Re: My first month learning this hobby - Learn from my mistakes! [Re: Sittin_On_A_Toilet]
#27041076 - 11/15/20 06:41 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Today I prepped ~11 Lbs of dry Walmart WBS. Ended up with ~300 oz of hydrated WBS, unfortunately I only had enough bags and jars to use ~200 oz. But at least I know the rough conversion from dry WBS to hydrated WBS and cups to hydrated oz.
WBS Prep: Rinsed VERY well 5x with cold water, soaked 20 hrs w/ 4 cups strong coffee and 2 tbsp gypsum, brought to barely a simmer, pulled off heat when al dente, steam dried for ~1 hour until WBS reached ~85F, loaded into jars/bags, wait 20 mins, wipe off any condensation, seal bags and close lids.
I was able to fit 3 small myco bags, 2 quart jars, and 1 half pint jar on the first sterilization round. Next round hopefully I can fit the remaining 2 large myco bags, and 3 half pint jars
Some conversions I tracked this time: 11.14 lbs dry WBS = 178.6 oz dry WBS 178.6 oz dry WBS = 292.2 oz hydrated WBS So 292.2/178.6 = 1.63 wet to dry ratio = every 1 oz dry gives me 1.63 oz wet If I need 50 oz hydrated WBS, I would need 50/1.63=30.7 oz dry WBS ****This number probably varies quite a bit depending on the brand WBS and the preparation tek used. But should give you a ball-park of how much WBS to prep based on how many jars/bags you need to fill.
(292.2-178.6)/178.6 = .63 hydration ratio (I want to track this number and see how it changes based on soak time, simmer time, and steam drying technique. Will be interesting to also track a subs hydration ratio vs avg colonization time and yield)
I filled a variety of vessels for experimental purposes (still getting the hang of colonization): Half Pint Mason Jar = ~4 oz hydrated WBS = need ~2.5oz dry WBS per Quart mason jar = ~15 oz hydrated WBS = Small myco bag w/ filter = ~22 oz hydrated WBS (weight) = 4 cups (volume) Large myco bag w/ filter = ~44 oz hydrated WBS (weight) = 8 cups (volume)
Questions I have so far - Has anyone else tracked what I call the 'hydration ratio', (hydrated WBS weight - Dry WBS weight)/Dry WBS weight - Condensation seems to always be present, should I wait longer for my WBS to cool off before loading? Is it even a real issue? I'm currently not quite setup to do the steam drying right, so my method is very time intensive (gently scooping and turning the WBS every 5 mins during the steam dry). I'm planning on building a giant wire mesh tray so I could spread 10 lbs out at like 1" thick layer. - Does anyone have a good 'rule of thumb' for the addition of Gypsum and coffee? Most teks are a little wishy washy (use a 'handful' gypsum per 4 cups dry WBS) and vary a lot (some call for a very small amount of gypsum, some a lot more). What has worked best for you guys? - I think I have a PC issue. I have a 23 QT Hawkins BIGBOY PC. After letting the steam vent for 10 mins, when I put the weight on I almost immediately hear a slight hiss. After ~12 mins of adding the weight it will DUMP loads of steam before dropping back down. If I catch it happening, I can barely touch the weight after a couple secs of steam purging and it will fall back into position. The small leak I'm hearing is definitely coming from the weight/nipple interface, but I don't see anything wrong with either surface. I've found the perfect stove setting so it still pops it's top every ~30 mins or so. I ordered a pressure gauge I'll be adding to it so I can monitor what is actually happening.
Happy Growing!
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Frozen Jedi
nooberist


Registered: 10/17/20
Posts: 26
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: My first month learning this hobby - Learn from my mistakes! [Re: Sittin_On_A_Toilet]
#27041162 - 11/15/20 07:56 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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You're doin great man!
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GrinchGrower
N00B



Registered: 10/02/20
Posts: 682
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: My first month learning this hobby - Learn from my mistakes! [Re: Sittin_On_A_Toilet]
#27041222 - 11/15/20 08:38 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sittin_On_A_Toilet said: How did you go from your first syringe to something fully colonized?
I don't want to jack your thread with all the details, but you can check out my start here:
- GG Agar Test - GG BRF PFC
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Sittin_On_A_Toilet
Stranger
Registered: 10/17/20
Posts: 16
Last seen: 3 years, 19 days
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Re: My first month learning this hobby - Learn from my mistakes! [Re: GrinchGrower]
#27049369 - 11/20/20 06:27 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm 10-12 days in on my first bags that were inoculated with agar wedges that were first generation from a multiculture B+ syringe. I'm not really loving bags, I did a few mason jars I had lying around and thought it was much easier. I had trouble sealing the bags. First I tried packing tape on the 1st 4 bags. Terrible idea, at least for me I'm not neat enough. Ten I tried a bag sealer, but it didn't seal a bag with the sides folded well. Finally, zip ties. ZIP TIES ARE PERFECT
Taking pictures of bags also sucks, my jars are crystal clear. Anyways, so far it looks like only 1 bag of the initial 3 contaminated. Below are my first round (packing tape bags).:
I'm 99% this bag is contaminated with mold (#2 in the original post). I should've known since it grew so much faster than the other bags. I can't see any myc 'veins', it's just a webby greyish mess. This bag is in quarantine to see if I get any opposing feedback. I'm dumping it this weekend otherwise.

Another pic of contam

Next bag - #1 I think this one is ready to spawn, but I'm going to wait until another is 100%. Crazy air grabbers reaching up out of this clump.

The least colonized area

Next Bag #3: Not as good as #1, but going along nicely. The myc I'm getting grows very thick with little veins or puffs. But very pure white.

Another #3

Hopefully Bag #1 and #3 are actually what I want. Please let me know you thoughts. I plan to use Bod's easy AF spawn and tub teks once I have another bag 100%. My agar growth has slowed down recently. It also has been cold. I'm setting up a small space heater set to 68F. The room the agar is in probably gets down to 62-65 at night. At least they're up high in a dresser, with my spawn bags colonizing 1 drawer below. Hoping the heat from 20 lbs WBS helps too.
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Frozen Jedi
nooberist


Registered: 10/17/20
Posts: 26
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: My first month learning this hobby - Learn from my mistakes! [Re: Sittin_On_A_Toilet]
#27050508 - 11/21/20 02:03 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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looks like good progress man! Hope your agar work is coming along too.
FJ
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