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Offlinequikotte
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Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g
    #27038117 - 11/14/20 02:32 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Noob here.

I slowly worked my way up to 2grams of dried cubes, but I feel like I hit a wall.

At 2 grams, in the first half hour of the trip, I am overtaken by a sensation of pure, raw discomfort.

The first time I nearly panicked, the second time I kept relaxed but it was one of the most heavy and difficult experiences of my life.

After that first half hour the sensation went away and the rest of the trip was without major difficulties.

Is this normal, particularly at such low dosage?

Does this happen to other people?

My hope is that I can learn to deal with the sensation, but I was feeling already so close to my limit at 2 grams, I can't see how I could deal with 4 or 5.

PS:

The reason it's important for me to increase the dosage is that I suffer of treatment-resistant chronic depression; all clinical trials seem to use the equivalent of 4-5 grams but I don't see myself reaching anywhere near that and 2 grams doesn't seem to have much of an effect on my depression.

Other people seem to be perfectly fine with the same batch of shrooms at much higher dosages.

I take a Dimenhydrinate tablet to deal with the nausea.


Edited by quikotte (11/14/20 02:33 AM)


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: quikotte] * 6
    #27038298 - 11/14/20 07:14 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Low doeses suck. You get the uncomfortable come up and hardly if any tripping. Sounds like you have too much pre trip anxiety to go into a trip anyway though. I would avoid until you can be comfortable with letting go of that.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27038455 - 11/14/20 09:17 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

The discomfort and uncomfortableness will take some getting used to, you just have to have some quiet time to yourself so you can ride out the discomfort and relax and let go/surrender. Otherwise, try getting ahold of some Lemon Balm and use 3 to 4.5 grams of dried Lemon Balm leaf to make a tea and consume it with your mushrooms, it'll help smooth out/relax the come up intensity/discomfort.


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27038484 - 11/14/20 09:40 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Low doeses suck. You get the uncomfortable come up and hardly if any tripping. Sounds like you have too much pre trip anxiety to go into a trip anyway though. I would avoid until you can be comfortable with letting go of that.



I agree with the too-low dose.
come up is always uncomfortable for me. The better the trip / peak, the less comfortable the come up is.
It's like going through hell to reach heaven.
can be super psychotic stuff like last time I felt like my mind was being infiltrated by some dimensional mosquitoes and sucking my energy.
I started feeling like if I continue going down that path a bad trip would ensue, so I just shook it off by getting up from the bed.


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #27038489 - 11/14/20 09:41 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Also first time I have heard of someone ingesting diphenhydramine or whatever for the nausea. Might not be a good idea?


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OfflineskOsH
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #27038660 - 11/14/20 11:57 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I had a friend who only took 2g mushrooms when I suggested them for their depression, and i told them all the precautions they should take. They didn't respond well.

I think it is guilt/shame/paranoia that ruins trips


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OfflineTheEschatologist
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g *DELETED* [Re: skOsH] * 1
    #27038892 - 11/14/20 02:15 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: quikotte]
    #27039402 - 11/14/20 07:26 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

to be honest I've never felt such deep depression and sadness as I have on psychedelics a few times. It's a big part of why I don't trip, it's just depressing and an ordeal most of the time


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: Ezuma] * 1
    #27039411 - 11/14/20 07:29 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I don't want to tell you not to trip, but don't feel you have to trip for any reason. I was in a loop for years thinking I was somehow 'wrong' not to enjoy tripping, so I kept going back despite a dozen bad experiences (or more possibly) because I bought into the Mckenna crowd's rhetoric. Maybe they're just not right for you, or maybe its just the wrong time, or, maybe you just need to get accustomed to the come-up (they're always rough).

In short, don't feel you have to trip for any reason other than that YOU, truly, want to.


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: Ezuma] * 1
    #27039552 - 11/14/20 08:45 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

If you decide to pursue this then you will have to overcome that anxiety.
I think this is the hardest part that people have a tough time getting past. You are putting yourself in a situation where if you are not calm you are very likely to have a rough and bad time. The harder one fights this the more of a nightmare it becomes. This lesson can be carried over in every day life. Its tough and there are other ways of doing it.

Its like a fire alarm going off in your mind, sometimes the alarm is too sensitive and with out rationality.

Its not about going higher. Its about discipline, because as the dose increases, the awareness of our lack of control becomes obvious.


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OfflineRise against
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #27039621 - 11/14/20 09:58 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Take more


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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: Rise against]
    #27039639 - 11/14/20 10:20 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

try 3 - 3.5 grams next time. Like Bod said, pre trip anxiety with not a high enough dose can bring discomfort.


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: Blazer420]
    #27039839 - 11/15/20 02:08 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Get through that shit

You dont need to feel like "oh i need to get to 4 or 5g"

No man. Jist eat your dose and see what happens.

Try not to fight it. You are psyching yourself out man. Youre own worry and fear of what might happen is worse than the actual experience.

Mushrooms are a medicine. Whatever happens is meant to. You need to learn to calm yourself.

Its so much better when you go into it and you arent fighting it.

Higher doses have higher rewards. Maybe just wait. Do some other things for a minute.

You eating right? Exercising? Time in nature? Reading and journal? Shit like that.

I di agree it sucks to go through the tough part and not get to the good part. And higher doses are better at that.

Its a learning process. If you want it you can overcome.

Low doses and microdoses can be a great benefit for depression and anxiety too man.

You dont need 5g.

This is your journey with the mushroom. Go into it with an open curious mind and see what happens. Just observe. Feelings and thoughts and what you experience. Thata fine. Accept it. Breathe. In. Deep breathe. you are here. You are fine. The medicine is doing its work. Breathe out.. Slow. In. Breathe. I am ok. I am fine. The medicine is doing its work.

Yeah man youre almost ready for 3g now


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: Enkidu]
    #27039848 - 11/15/20 02:17 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Also dont worry about other people and this and that about what you heard or read.

Just focus on you and your experience and your interaction.

You have nausea ? Idk what that med is or if it might impact the experience or your experience or not.

But id try eating on relatively empty stomach. Have tea on the side with ginger and honey.

What type of setting are you dosing ...?

I would recommend night. Lights low. Meditative music.

When i dose i usually dose higher and lay face down on the floor eyes closed.

What exactly is the issue with 2g? Yeah idk. Thinking about it it might just be like others said and you need more.

Its like its not strong enough to give you the reward so the entire experience is just a come uo and a awe fuck whats gonna happen and nothing happens lol


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: Enkidu]
    #27039849 - 11/15/20 02:17 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

What was heavy and difficult about it..?


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Offlinequikotte
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: TheEschatologist]
    #27039908 - 11/15/20 03:41 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Unfortunately, anxiety is part of my depression.
However knowing that it might be anxiety and that it is normal should in fact help me reduce it.
I look forward to experiment again and see if this is the case, see if I can slowly learn to deal with it better.
Last time I managed to surrender completely and not fight the negative sensation, it was one of the most difficult experiences in my life but I want to see if it gets easier with practice.
Also knowing that at higher doses the problem might be lesser instead than greater makes me feel more optimistic.


I don't know how to describe the sensation other than "pure, raw discomfort".
"Wanting to be anywhere but there doing anything but that" but cranked up to 11.
The first time it gave me a pretty bad trip, at least while it lasted.
The second time I had a better idea of what to expect and managed to relax down and stay with the sensation without fighting it, at least consciously, it was extremely difficult and "heavy", but I managed.
I did not manage to "accept it", it felt physiologically impossible since the sensation itself was pure rejection of the here and now.
Hard and unpleasant as it was, I find this fascinating and look forward to try again just to understand it better.


For those curious, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimenhydrinate is an over-the-counter tablet for motion sickness that works with serotonin caused nausea, which I took under suggestion of a friend of mine who is a doctor.
While it is possible that it is interacting with the cubes, I had the sensation of discomfort also without it.




@TheEschatologist

I had about eight trips? All at very low doses. I had only two trips at 2g.

I don't expect to undo 20 years of depression in a few hours of trip, and I expect that I will need to experiment a lot, but for the time being my goal is to repeat the protocols of the successful clinical trials, since it's the most reliable information I have.

Nausea caused the only bad trip I had, I seem to be exceptionally prone to it and on top of that, I don't know why but whenever I have nausea for any reason, even without shrooms, it gives me panic.

Tea + Dimenhydrinate seems to keep it comfortably under control however.


> To answer your question straight yeah it's perfectly normal to have a lot of discomfort.
> I get a lot of discomfort at less than 2 grams these days so I don't even go that high. I've gotten a kind of reverse tolerance over time it seems.

Thank you.

Would you be able to describe your discomfort more specifically?
It would be very helpful to me.

I might take your suggestion to try lower doses more frequently, but right now I am curious to see if I can get the discomfort under control.

I will research syrian rue, thanks, seems promising.



@Ezuma

The bad sensation is only for the first half hour. The rest is not "enjoyable" but I find that it is very useful and very interesting in other ways.

You did well to quit it if it didn't work for you.


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: quikotte]
    #27039966 - 11/15/20 05:47 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

As others have stated, you may have actually taken too low a dose OP, and gotten locked in the shit-comeup with no pay off.

It's the shroom equivalent of blue balls.

Blue shrooms? Lol.


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OfflineTheEschatologist
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g *DELETED* [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27039974 - 11/15/20 06:03 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

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Edited by TheEschatologist (11/15/20 06:07 AM)


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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: quikotte]
    #27040203 - 11/15/20 09:17 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

It is quite normal to feel uncomfortable during the come up phase, I feel it's part of the therapeutic effect where your baggage has to come to the surface in order to work through it, then I come out the other side fine.

While some find that higher doses help to push past a 'neither here nor there' experience, perhaps it's not necessarily an approach for all. If you found less than 2 grams, which for many is a significant amount, to be fine then it maybe isn't a case of not taking enough. I think the advice to start low and if you feel like it work your way up is generally good.

If you do want to go higher then you don't necessarily have to take 4-5 grams. I remember a study where they used 0, 5, 10, 20 and 30mg of psilocybin, they found that many people reported powerful 'mystical' type experiences which correlated with the therapeutic effect at 20 and 30mg, with more reports of some negative effects at 30mg. The participants also reported positive experiences from the lower doses. I work out dried cubensis to be around the often recommended 3.5g for around 20mg of psilocybin and 30mg around 5g of mushrooms.

Have you tried taking the mushrooms as a tea to help with the nausea?


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OfflinePsychonautCX
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: Karuna]
    #27040465 - 11/15/20 12:18 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Something to consider is that 2g doesn’t always translate to a 2g trip. Depending on the species and strain (Golden Teachers and Penis Envy are considerably stronger than say the Pf Classic strain) and the tek you used (if any) a 2g dose of shrooms could turn into a 5g+ trip.

Also any medications you are taking can greatly affect how psychedelics work on you. For instance I take a medication that completely nullifies ALL psychedelic effects of LSD. Turning into a speedball like meth instead of a psychedelic.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: TheEschatologist]
    #27040804 - 11/15/20 03:36 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheEschatologist said:
For therapy, some people respond better to more frequent medium doses than infrequent high doses over the long term. Especially if you have some kind of trauma and/or persistent mental health issue, that kind of thing can't be fixed overnight with a single big trip or two. I know the desperation in wanting to heal fast and just be better, but IME it takes time to whittle down that mountain.






This is a really good point.  Just because a lot of the studies, for whatever reason, have looked at the effects of a single dose doesn't mean that's the most effective way or even desirable.  I've tripped many many times now, and am bipolar, and done them at the peak of the depressive phase as well, and one thing that they really do is reset the cycle to the other side.  They also bring the good feelings and reconnect to better things, but the effects really seem cumulative.

:snoopyes:


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27040943 - 11/15/20 05:10 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

There are exceptions to be made though imo. My gf for example is someone who could really benefit from Psychedelic therapy, but she hardly ever has enough time or the right headspace to dive in, plus she's a bit hesitant/nervous/anxious/fearful about it. She could definitely benefit from regular or occasional dosing with lighter to moderate dosages but i think she would benefit most from a bit more of a fully immersive dosage especially since she's not in the position to dose more frequently/occasionally, so trying to get her the most out of an experience once in a blue moon would probably be the better way to go, for her, imo. People really need that mystical experience and perspective shift and higher understanding of things.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: Sabnock]
    #27041359 - 11/15/20 10:52 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I know people who could benefit but aren't sold enough to try it.  But it's not either/or, it's a combination of approaches and the individual should probably find their best one.  They'll know when it works.


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: TheEschatologist]
    #27041480 - 11/16/20 12:55 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheEschatologist said:
Ah ok, thanks for your reply. Having done 2 medium dose (~2g) trips, I reckon you you’re right around where you should be on the adjustment scale. My first trips at that level were also really tough because I didn’t know how to swim in the current yet, so to speak. The more experiences you get under your belt the more you get used to it, though that’s not to say it ever gets super easy. Over time one learns how to engage and work with the discomfort as opposed to just white knuckling it and hoping you’ll make it to the other side. So keep persevering!

To try and describe the quality of the discomfort – that’s difficult to put into words as you know. I dug up a post I made a while ago describing my 4g trip, paraphrasing: ‘my awareness of every second of the trip was divided into crystal clear conscious milliseconds, and every millisecond was filled a desperate repetition of the same plea "make it stop, make it stop, make it stop..." Because of the time dilation it basically felt like an eternity of hell. It was a state of utter rejection of everything i felt or was in that moment.’ That’s kind of melodramatic in retrospect but when you’re in it it’s indescribably uncomfortable. Can only compare it to a non-drug induced panic attack really.

I’m just spitballing here but in IME chronic depression carries an element of disassociation/self-rejection which gets amplified by mushrooms. This makes it tough to just accept the experience and go with it, because you need to accept yourself first to do that, but the psychedelic is dissolving the boundaries that were holding back the aspects of yourself that you fundamentally don’t like. Hence the struggle.

I hear you re the nausea, some folks have a kind of instinctual fear of throwing up which gets magnified when on psychs. I find forcing myself to purge helps, but yeah everyone’s different so best use whatever means you need to manage it.




The bolded quote there is probably a large variable for you!


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OfflineMrStinkyShrooman
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27041655 - 11/16/20 06:19 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Last trip, a week ago. Mushrooms lead me to good old cleansing purge. Felt absolutely great afterward. :heart:
Aya crowd for years tell everybody about magical purging and it's effects.


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: quikotte]
    #27041947 - 11/16/20 09:40 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

As most have pointed out, lower doses can cause such a phenomenon (all "pre-trip" or "come-up" anxiety, no emergence into a psychedelic state).

My most disturbing, uncomfortable and hellish experience was on just 1g.

However, I think, once you get used to lower doses, that usually gives way to some pretty therapeutic experiences.

When I started my journey, my ego was too afraid to dive into standard (3g+) doses. So I played around at the 1-2g range. After some time, I got used to that dose range and had overwhelmingly good experiences. But you need to temper your expectations when using lower doses. If you expect a full psychedelic experience on 1-2g of average strength, non-PE cubes, you might have a bad time because the expectation won't come to fruition.

However, if you just let the experience take you, those lower doses can be incredibly beneficial.

Overall, I now prefer higher doses (3g+ or 1.5g+ of PE/APE) but I do them infrequently (once every 1-2 months). If I want to use mushrooms more frequently, I like micro-dosing or using lower doses as they don't have as long an integration period and can be incredibly beneficial in the immediate.


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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: quikotte]
    #27041998 - 11/16/20 10:14 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Low doses certainly have their value.  I have a friend who trips all the time but he swears by 1 gram / 1 hit trips.  That's where he gets his value and anything beyond that is too much for him.  I tend to get the most out of 5g / 3+ hit trips but I certainly dont knock lower doses either.  It is all subject to be difficult or incredible in my book :sun:


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Offlinequikotte
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: TheEschatologist]
    #27042218 - 11/16/20 01:08 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

@TheEschatologist

I don't think that in my case the discomfort is connected with self-rejection.
It was a very pure sensation. It wasn't about me.

But yes, the rest of what you describe seems to match my experience very well.

Did you learn to deal with it eventually?






@Karuna

Yes, I did read that study. Tripping at 2g is very interesting and valuable, but doesn't seem to have much of an effect on my depression.

Doing tea is pretty much obligatory for me: I have no problems eating mushroom in general, but cubes give me hard nausea.


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OfflineTheEschatologist
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g *DELETED* [Re: quikotte] * 1
    #27043158 - 11/17/20 12:36 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: quikotte]
    #27043197 - 11/17/20 01:29 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Another thing to keep in mind, too, OP, is depending on frequency, dosages can and will do different things!

I.E. 2g dry once a year will impact you differently than a tolerance built around 2g dry once a month, or once every two weeks, etc.


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OfflineWeebleWobble
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27043375 - 11/17/20 07:02 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

This is your depression coming to the surface.  You gotta surrender.  I agree, at a higher dose you might be able to push through it.  Surrender and release.


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OfflineWeebleWobble
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: Psicomb]
    #27043376 - 11/17/20 07:04 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Psicomvb said:
Low doses certainly have their value.  I have a friend who trips all the time but he swears by 1 gram / 1 hit trips.  That's where he gets his value and anything beyond that is too much for him.  I tend to get the most out of 5g / 3+ hit trips but I certainly dont knock lower doses either.  It is all subject to be difficult or incredible in my book :sun:




I get benefit from low doses but didn't at first.  I was too closed off.  You gotta crack the shell open and a high dose is often needed for that.  Once you are open you can release trauma just by meditating properly and a low dose trip is just advanced meditating really.


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: WeebleWobble]
    #27043502 - 11/17/20 09:02 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Listen to what your conscience is telling you and make the necessary changes to get to a place where you have a fulfilling experience on the low doses before trying anything higher. Obviously.


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OfflineEarthwormJim
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: PsychonautCX]
    #27044215 - 11/17/20 04:43 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PsychonautCX said:
Something to consider is that 2g doesn’t always translate to a 2g trip. Depending on the species and strain (Golden Teachers and Penis Envy are considerably stronger than say the Pf Classic strain) and the tek you used (if any) a 2g dose of shrooms could turn into a 5g+ trip.

Also any medications you are taking can greatly affect how psychedelics work on you. For instance I take a medication that completely nullifies ALL psychedelic effects of LSD. Turning into a speedball like meth instead of a psychedelic.



I totally second this. Meds can definitely have a negative affect on your trip. Also I've noticed that I get that incredibly uncomfortable come up/body-load on PE. Not so much on others


--------------------
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup:pipesmoke2:
Everything I post is a figment of someone's imagination. Maybe yours. Maybe mine. Likely both:om:

I see shrooms of blue
In tubs of white
That will keep me tripping
All through the night
And I think to myself
What a wonderful world:trippinbawelz:


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Offlinequikotte
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: TheEschatologist]
    #27062894 - 11/29/20 11:39 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

So I tried 3g and it went really well.

It took some preparation and it wasn't easy to find the day when I was feeling well enough to go into it, but it was worth it.

For some time I felt genuinely happy, and it's something that happens very, very rarely to me, I see how this could help in the longer term with my depression.

I did experience the difficult bit, same intensity, same overwhelming discomfort, same difficulty, but it was very short and I think I can distract myself if I don't want to deal with it.
I'm still very interested in trying to learn to deal better with it and it's nice to know that I have the option to escape it, but it's not my priority.

So thanks a lot for the aggregate wisdom, it was very helpful.


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OfflineTheEschatologist
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: quikotte]
    #27063842 - 11/29/20 11:58 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Great to hear OP! Here's to hoping it becomes a reliable tool down the line for helping with your depression :raisemyglass: Best regards


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Offlinekapps
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #27065676 - 12/01/20 12:59 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
The better the trip / peak, the less comfortable the come up is.
It's like going through hell to reach heaven.





That's exactly how I feel it as well. All of my shroom trips (about 3.5 to 4.5g per trip on average) are very difficult and demanding in the first hours. The greater the dose the more so. I accept this as part of the experience with shrooms. I have the feeling that the better I deal with my daemons on the come up and sometimes at the peak, the better becomes the second part of the trip. This is a very introspective experience for me and I cannot imagine to take shrooms for partying for this reason mainly.


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Offlinefigjam
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: TheEschatologist]
    #27065737 - 12/01/20 03:28 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TheEschatologist said:
How many trips have you had so far? IME mushrooms take a while to adjust to and learn how to work with - best to ease into it if you're still starting out on the journey so to speak.

And I wouldn't beat myself up too hard about not being able to handle higher doses at the moment if I were you. If 2 grams is giving you back all that you can handle right now, work with that for a while and chew on those lessons first, then push deeper down the line if you feel you've worked through what they're consistently showing you.

Also, don't invest too much in the idea that higher doses are necessarily much better for treating depression. I also have a history of MDD (and poor response to medication) and in my early mushroom taking days I thought I needed to "crack the nut" or something with a high dose and it would "show me the light" and just fix my poor mental health in one swoop. That didn't happen though - I took 4 grams and it was horribly intense and not particularly therapeutic.

For therapy, some people respond better to more frequent medium doses than infrequent high doses over the long term. Especially if you have some kind of trauma and/or persistent mental health issue, that kind of thing can't be fixed overnight with a single big trip or two. I know the desperation in wanting to heal fast and just be better, but IME it takes time to whittle down that mountain.

Re the nausea, consider letting the purge come first and then taking something for nausea after throwing up. I know this sounds counter-intuitive but purging while coming up can be a way to clear out some anxiety which otherwise just hangs around and kind of sours the trip as a whole.

To answer your question straight yeah it's perfectly normal to have a lot of discomfort. I get a lot of discomfort at less than 2 grams these days so I don't even go that high. I've gotten a kind of reverse tolerance over time it seems.

You say it doesn't feel like the mushrooms are helping with the depression. To this I'd say: 1) try doing medium doses (i.e. that are not unbearable) more frequently as opposed to pushing towards a super high dose; and 2) maybe look into working with syrian rue (or an ayahuasca analog homebrew if you're so inclined). Rue is a much more targeted and forgiving way to medicate for depression because it is literally a plant based MAOI and doesn't come with the psychological stress that classical psychedelics can bring. I used it every week for more than a year and a half and it really did wonders for my depression over that period. Again, the consistency was key. But there's no way I could've done mushrooms every week like that, so rue was superior for that specific purpose. Also there's no reason why you can't work with more than one thing, alternating of course. There's also ketamine but I'd say that's a last resort because of the addictive potential and cost factor.

Feel free to PM me if you'd like to chat more about depression and psychs, it's the reason I started using them about 3 years ago and I'd say they've been more helpful than meds or therapy. It's just all about find what works best for you and rolling with that

Kind regards, E




:whathesaid:


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: kapps]
    #27067854 - 12/02/20 09:30 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I would only take shrooms for partying with no more than 2g from the start, but if I were able to ride out the come up of a higher dose in solitude somewhere, that would make an epic psychedelic party mood


Edited by InnerWisdom (12/02/20 09:30 AM)


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #27067875 - 12/02/20 09:39 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

The come down on high doses with people makes for a remarkable experience if its the right people

Only been blessed with that a few times


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: Enkidu]
    #27067968 - 12/02/20 10:39 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enkidu said:
The come down on high doses with people makes for a remarkable experience if its the right people

Only been blessed with that a few times




:whathesaid:

If you're tripping hard enough, your trips are generally "separate" (because you're all glued to the ground/bed/etc) but once everyone is coming down, the space for connection with each other is bigger than at most points in one's life.


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