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Offlinequikotte
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Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g
    #27038117 - 11/14/20 02:32 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Noob here.

I slowly worked my way up to 2grams of dried cubes, but I feel like I hit a wall.

At 2 grams, in the first half hour of the trip, I am overtaken by a sensation of pure, raw discomfort.

The first time I nearly panicked, the second time I kept relaxed but it was one of the most heavy and difficult experiences of my life.

After that first half hour the sensation went away and the rest of the trip was without major difficulties.

Is this normal, particularly at such low dosage?

Does this happen to other people?

My hope is that I can learn to deal with the sensation, but I was feeling already so close to my limit at 2 grams, I can't see how I could deal with 4 or 5.

PS:

The reason it's important for me to increase the dosage is that I suffer of treatment-resistant chronic depression; all clinical trials seem to use the equivalent of 4-5 grams but I don't see myself reaching anywhere near that and 2 grams doesn't seem to have much of an effect on my depression.

Other people seem to be perfectly fine with the same batch of shrooms at much higher dosages.

I take a Dimenhydrinate tablet to deal with the nausea.


Edited by quikotte (11/14/20 02:33 AM)


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: quikotte] * 6
    #27038298 - 11/14/20 07:14 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Low doeses suck. You get the uncomfortable come up and hardly if any tripping. Sounds like you have too much pre trip anxiety to go into a trip anyway though. I would avoid until you can be comfortable with letting go of that.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27038455 - 11/14/20 09:17 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

The discomfort and uncomfortableness will take some getting used to, you just have to have some quiet time to yourself so you can ride out the discomfort and relax and let go/surrender. Otherwise, try getting ahold of some Lemon Balm and use 3 to 4.5 grams of dried Lemon Balm leaf to make a tea and consume it with your mushrooms, it'll help smooth out/relax the come up intensity/discomfort.


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27038484 - 11/14/20 09:40 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Low doeses suck. You get the uncomfortable come up and hardly if any tripping. Sounds like you have too much pre trip anxiety to go into a trip anyway though. I would avoid until you can be comfortable with letting go of that.



I agree with the too-low dose.
come up is always uncomfortable for me. The better the trip / peak, the less comfortable the come up is.
It's like going through hell to reach heaven.
can be super psychotic stuff like last time I felt like my mind was being infiltrated by some dimensional mosquitoes and sucking my energy.
I started feeling like if I continue going down that path a bad trip would ensue, so I just shook it off by getting up from the bed.


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #27038489 - 11/14/20 09:41 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Also first time I have heard of someone ingesting diphenhydramine or whatever for the nausea. Might not be a good idea?


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OfflineskOsH
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #27038660 - 11/14/20 11:57 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I had a friend who only took 2g mushrooms when I suggested them for their depression, and i told them all the precautions they should take. They didn't respond well.

I think it is guilt/shame/paranoia that ruins trips


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OfflineTheEschatologist
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g *DELETED* [Re: skOsH] * 1
    #27038892 - 11/14/20 02:15 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: quikotte]
    #27039402 - 11/14/20 07:26 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

to be honest I've never felt such deep depression and sadness as I have on psychedelics a few times. It's a big part of why I don't trip, it's just depressing and an ordeal most of the time


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: Ezuma] * 1
    #27039411 - 11/14/20 07:29 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I don't want to tell you not to trip, but don't feel you have to trip for any reason. I was in a loop for years thinking I was somehow 'wrong' not to enjoy tripping, so I kept going back despite a dozen bad experiences (or more possibly) because I bought into the Mckenna crowd's rhetoric. Maybe they're just not right for you, or maybe its just the wrong time, or, maybe you just need to get accustomed to the come-up (they're always rough).

In short, don't feel you have to trip for any reason other than that YOU, truly, want to.


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: Ezuma] * 1
    #27039552 - 11/14/20 08:45 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

If you decide to pursue this then you will have to overcome that anxiety.
I think this is the hardest part that people have a tough time getting past. You are putting yourself in a situation where if you are not calm you are very likely to have a rough and bad time. The harder one fights this the more of a nightmare it becomes. This lesson can be carried over in every day life. Its tough and there are other ways of doing it.

Its like a fire alarm going off in your mind, sometimes the alarm is too sensitive and with out rationality.

Its not about going higher. Its about discipline, because as the dose increases, the awareness of our lack of control becomes obvious.


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OfflineRise against
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #27039621 - 11/14/20 09:58 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Take more


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InvisibleBlazer420
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: Rise against]
    #27039639 - 11/14/20 10:20 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

try 3 - 3.5 grams next time. Like Bod said, pre trip anxiety with not a high enough dose can bring discomfort.


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~ I used to get high on life, until I realized life was cut with morons ~
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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: Blazer420]
    #27039839 - 11/15/20 02:08 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Get through that shit

You dont need to feel like "oh i need to get to 4 or 5g"

No man. Jist eat your dose and see what happens.

Try not to fight it. You are psyching yourself out man. Youre own worry and fear of what might happen is worse than the actual experience.

Mushrooms are a medicine. Whatever happens is meant to. You need to learn to calm yourself.

Its so much better when you go into it and you arent fighting it.

Higher doses have higher rewards. Maybe just wait. Do some other things for a minute.

You eating right? Exercising? Time in nature? Reading and journal? Shit like that.

I di agree it sucks to go through the tough part and not get to the good part. And higher doses are better at that.

Its a learning process. If you want it you can overcome.

Low doses and microdoses can be a great benefit for depression and anxiety too man.

You dont need 5g.

This is your journey with the mushroom. Go into it with an open curious mind and see what happens. Just observe. Feelings and thoughts and what you experience. Thata fine. Accept it. Breathe. In. Deep breathe. you are here. You are fine. The medicine is doing its work. Breathe out.. Slow. In. Breathe. I am ok. I am fine. The medicine is doing its work.

Yeah man youre almost ready for 3g now


--------------------
Within You , Without You


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: Enkidu]
    #27039848 - 11/15/20 02:17 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Also dont worry about other people and this and that about what you heard or read.

Just focus on you and your experience and your interaction.

You have nausea ? Idk what that med is or if it might impact the experience or your experience or not.

But id try eating on relatively empty stomach. Have tea on the side with ginger and honey.

What type of setting are you dosing ...?

I would recommend night. Lights low. Meditative music.

When i dose i usually dose higher and lay face down on the floor eyes closed.

What exactly is the issue with 2g? Yeah idk. Thinking about it it might just be like others said and you need more.

Its like its not strong enough to give you the reward so the entire experience is just a come uo and a awe fuck whats gonna happen and nothing happens lol


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: Enkidu]
    #27039849 - 11/15/20 02:17 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

What was heavy and difficult about it..?


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Offlinequikotte
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: TheEschatologist]
    #27039908 - 11/15/20 03:41 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Unfortunately, anxiety is part of my depression.
However knowing that it might be anxiety and that it is normal should in fact help me reduce it.
I look forward to experiment again and see if this is the case, see if I can slowly learn to deal with it better.
Last time I managed to surrender completely and not fight the negative sensation, it was one of the most difficult experiences in my life but I want to see if it gets easier with practice.
Also knowing that at higher doses the problem might be lesser instead than greater makes me feel more optimistic.


I don't know how to describe the sensation other than "pure, raw discomfort".
"Wanting to be anywhere but there doing anything but that" but cranked up to 11.
The first time it gave me a pretty bad trip, at least while it lasted.
The second time I had a better idea of what to expect and managed to relax down and stay with the sensation without fighting it, at least consciously, it was extremely difficult and "heavy", but I managed.
I did not manage to "accept it", it felt physiologically impossible since the sensation itself was pure rejection of the here and now.
Hard and unpleasant as it was, I find this fascinating and look forward to try again just to understand it better.


For those curious, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimenhydrinate is an over-the-counter tablet for motion sickness that works with serotonin caused nausea, which I took under suggestion of a friend of mine who is a doctor.
While it is possible that it is interacting with the cubes, I had the sensation of discomfort also without it.




@TheEschatologist

I had about eight trips? All at very low doses. I had only two trips at 2g.

I don't expect to undo 20 years of depression in a few hours of trip, and I expect that I will need to experiment a lot, but for the time being my goal is to repeat the protocols of the successful clinical trials, since it's the most reliable information I have.

Nausea caused the only bad trip I had, I seem to be exceptionally prone to it and on top of that, I don't know why but whenever I have nausea for any reason, even without shrooms, it gives me panic.

Tea + Dimenhydrinate seems to keep it comfortably under control however.


> To answer your question straight yeah it's perfectly normal to have a lot of discomfort.
> I get a lot of discomfort at less than 2 grams these days so I don't even go that high. I've gotten a kind of reverse tolerance over time it seems.

Thank you.

Would you be able to describe your discomfort more specifically?
It would be very helpful to me.

I might take your suggestion to try lower doses more frequently, but right now I am curious to see if I can get the discomfort under control.

I will research syrian rue, thanks, seems promising.



@Ezuma

The bad sensation is only for the first half hour. The rest is not "enjoyable" but I find that it is very useful and very interesting in other ways.

You did well to quit it if it didn't work for you.


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: quikotte]
    #27039966 - 11/15/20 05:47 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

As others have stated, you may have actually taken too low a dose OP, and gotten locked in the shit-comeup with no pay off.

It's the shroom equivalent of blue balls.

Blue shrooms? Lol.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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OfflineTheEschatologist
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g *DELETED* [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27039974 - 11/15/20 06:03 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by TheEschatologist

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Edited by TheEschatologist (11/15/20 06:07 AM)


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InvisibleKaruna
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: quikotte]
    #27040203 - 11/15/20 09:17 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

It is quite normal to feel uncomfortable during the come up phase, I feel it's part of the therapeutic effect where your baggage has to come to the surface in order to work through it, then I come out the other side fine.

While some find that higher doses help to push past a 'neither here nor there' experience, perhaps it's not necessarily an approach for all. If you found less than 2 grams, which for many is a significant amount, to be fine then it maybe isn't a case of not taking enough. I think the advice to start low and if you feel like it work your way up is generally good.

If you do want to go higher then you don't necessarily have to take 4-5 grams. I remember a study where they used 0, 5, 10, 20 and 30mg of psilocybin, they found that many people reported powerful 'mystical' type experiences which correlated with the therapeutic effect at 20 and 30mg, with more reports of some negative effects at 30mg. The participants also reported positive experiences from the lower doses. I work out dried cubensis to be around the often recommended 3.5g for around 20mg of psilocybin and 30mg around 5g of mushrooms.

Have you tried taking the mushrooms as a tea to help with the nausea?


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OfflinePsychonautCX
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Re: Overwhelming negative sensation at only 2g [Re: Karuna]
    #27040465 - 11/15/20 12:18 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Something to consider is that 2g doesn’t always translate to a 2g trip. Depending on the species and strain (Golden Teachers and Penis Envy are considerably stronger than say the Pf Classic strain) and the tek you used (if any) a 2g dose of shrooms could turn into a 5g+ trip.

Also any medications you are taking can greatly affect how psychedelics work on you. For instance I take a medication that completely nullifies ALL psychedelic effects of LSD. Turning into a speedball like meth instead of a psychedelic.


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