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schulbus
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Using spores directly from Cubensis?
#27037759 - 11/13/20 09:07 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hello, I'm not really an expert when it comes to growing shrooms (had three grow kits in the past and one growing right now) and have a simple question to which i actually couldn't find an answer. Maybe I'm just not good at googling.
So i have some McKennaiis growing in a growkit and was thinking about doing some "simple" PF-tek in the future. I saw some tutorials about making my own sporeprint and transforming this into a syringe.
my question is, could i just drop the "sporing" cap onto my substrate over night and let the spores transfer this way, instead of doing it with foil/paper? Of course they wouldn't penetrate like with a syringe, but nature doesn't do that either as far as i know ^^
sorry if i seem like a total noob, and if this question was answered before i would be happy if someone could provide me a link 
Thanks anyways and best regards
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


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Re: Using spores directly from Cubensis? [Re: schulbus]
#27037768 - 11/13/20 09:11 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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No.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
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Re: Using spores directly from Cubensis? [Re: schulbus] 1
#27037801 - 11/13/20 09:40 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Making a good syringe is far more difficult than making agar. New growers tend to look for ways to cheat the system with shortcuts, those "shortcuts" invariably prove to be more work than they bargained for. They're also heavy on syringe worship.
Spore syringes suck balls, noobs are always using them as an excuse to bypass agar. Prints are better by far to work with,(unless working with a PE variety) don't "print" to a sub, this would be foolish. Print properly,fuck syringes, make agar, cook grain.
Agar is as easy as making jello shooters. If you can operate a stove you can sterilize grain, it's literally the "hardest" part. If you can shovel seeds into a jar and turn a burner on you're gtg, if not, well...don't grow mush, buy more kits.
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schulbus
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Re: Using spores directly from Cubensis? [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27038231 - 11/14/20 06:05 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'll definitely look into agar.
why would it be foolish to print directly to a (already sterilized) substrate? like i said, nature also just drops the spores on the ground. Is it just about possible contamination or are there other reasons?
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
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Re: Using spores directly from Cubensis? [Re: schulbus]
#27038235 - 11/14/20 06:07 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Try it
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
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Re: Using spores directly from Cubensis? [Re: schulbus]
#27038243 - 11/14/20 06:23 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
schulbus said: I'll definitely look into agar.
why would it be foolish to print directly to a (already sterilized) substrate? like i said, nature also just drops the spores on the ground. Is it just about possible contamination or are there other reasons?
Because nature isn't sterile, and your small plot of sub is a very tiny sample. Spores don't germinate successfully everywhere they drop, hence the magnitude of spore load, competition is everywhere.
Your cap and gills will be covered in the microscopic spores of competitor fungus species and bacteria which will take hold pretty quickly. You will end up with a trichoderma/bacteria farm rather than whatever you had planned. This is exactly the reason you want to make agar, so that if and when you have competition, you select mycelium to be isolated from the competition and place it in a clean environment away from molds and bacteria.
The outdoor natural environment has balances in the ecosystem that do not exist in your "sterile" environment, you will be creating an ecological niche for competition. The goal is to create an ecological niche for your desired species by ensuring that your selected species is the only available option.
This is done with agar. Not by blasting bacteria laden spore water into an ecological vacuum like a frain jar. Same with "printing" directly to a substrate. Tis foolish.
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schulbus
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Re: Using spores directly from Cubensis? [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27038699 - 11/14/20 12:27 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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But i wasn't talking about getting those prints from "nature" i was talking about getting them from my grow-kit. Wouldn't those other bacteria already have contaminated the mycelium and shrooms if they were present?
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bodhisatta 
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Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: Using spores directly from Cubensis? [Re: schulbus]
#27038705 - 11/14/20 12:29 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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No, we don't grow in clean-rooms
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
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Re: Using spores directly from Cubensis? [Re: schulbus]
#27038716 - 11/14/20 12:38 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes I know what you meant.
"Wouldn't those other bacteria already have contaminated the mycelium"
No. When mycelium colonized the substrate it becomes pretty much impervious to outside competition.
When mushrooms fruit from the surface they are obviously exposed to the environment (your room or whatever) and there are countless bits of pollen, skin particles, bacteria, mold spores etc floating around your grow area. Although your tenacious mycelium is good to go, the gills under your caps are collecting this airborne particulate which will be mingled with your cubensis spores. If you then remove the cap to dump spores into a sterile medium you'll be introducing those contaminants as well. Now if you grew your mushrooms in vitro and could maintain that sterility then yes you could transfer spores to say brf that way but why fucking bother.
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




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Re: Using spores directly from Cubensis? [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#27038820 - 11/14/20 01:48 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: No, we don't grow in clean-rooms
As mentioned by Bodhi, fruiting in a clean room just isnt practical. Mushroom spores will always be dirty due to the unavoidable conditions of fruiting.
However, u can make them pretty clean using a couple of techniques such as printing caps on top of a metal screen and/or "pre-printing" the caps for an hour or two which contains most of the contaminates that are released from the underside of the shroom cap.
My current experiment with this type of printing here has yielded some green and brown mold:

I have yet to try the pre-printing/metal screen printing, but after this recent attempt, Im definitely going to try it.
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Stipe-n Cap


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Re: Using spores directly from Cubensis? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 1
#27038841 - 11/14/20 01:53 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Even with pre-printing you're not going to have much success dropping spores on top of a sterilized or pasteurized sub, unless you fruit in vitro and somehow maintain sterility while moving the cap to some medium. Even if you could why would you?
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




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Re: Using spores directly from Cubensis? [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27038874 - 11/14/20 02:05 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Very true. U would need some pretty advance technology to filter out infectious spores between your live shroom cap and the sterilized clean substrate.
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




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Re: Using spores directly from Cubensis? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#27039021 - 11/14/20 03:32 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I wanna know the secrets of the Spore Syringe companies. How do they make a totally-clean spore syringe I wonder?
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Pearl
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Re: Using spores directly from Cubensis? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#27039056 - 11/14/20 03:54 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's the love they put in. Counteracts the bad...
(I'm assuming that query was sarcastic?)
Edited by Pearl (11/14/20 03:54 PM)
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schulbus
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Re: Using spores directly from Cubensis? [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27039682 - 11/14/20 11:20 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
p9hu7 said:
When mushrooms fruit from the surface they are obviously exposed to the environment (your room or whatever) and there are countless bits of pollen, skin particles, bacteria, mold spores etc floating around your grow area. Although your tenacious mycelium is good to go, the gills under your caps are collecting this airborne particulate which will be mingled with your cubensis spores. If you then remove the cap to dump spores into a sterile medium you'll be introducing those contaminants as well.
that makes a lot of sense. if it was possible via the easy way i imagined I'm sure that info would be out there.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
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Re: Using spores directly from Cubensis? [Re: schulbus]
#27039997 - 11/15/20 06:52 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes.
Spores are not very practicle even if you could ensure sterility. They have their place, obviously, but it always starts on agar. Live, clean mycelium is preferable in most cases.
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