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Offlinethealienthatategod
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is shroomery.org self aware?
    #27037295 - 11/13/20 03:42 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

does it have its own desires, and does it understand these desires?


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #27037332 - 11/13/20 04:12 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

♫ everyone stands in line, 'cos they wanna stay alive🎶

What's not understandable?


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OfflineHikeadellic
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #27037358 - 11/13/20 04:28 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Shroomery.org desires more mushrooms on planet earth


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Offlinethealienthatategod
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #27038255 - 11/14/20 06:38 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
♫ everyone stands in line, 'cos they wanna stay alive🎶

What's not understandable?




i don't understand.

does it stare back at you when you stare at it?


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #27038444 - 11/14/20 09:06 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I don’t think there is any real thing as the “group” or “society.  The Shroomery is of individual members that communicate and establish codes and values and this is what amounts to the group.  A poster for example can relate to that group entity but there really relating to other individuals that have taken on the collective character of the shroomery.  I think this character is not an autonomous bro but the effects of many posters getting touch with one another and since there’s a similarity it’s like it’s own character but it’s rather the product many interactions producing memes and insider sayings etc.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #27038450 - 11/14/20 09:11 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
♫ everyone stands in line, 'cos they wanna stay alive🎶

What's not understandable?




i don't understand.

does it stare back at you when you stare at it?




Yeah, it logs me out when I displease it.


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #27038494 - 11/14/20 09:42 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

:uhno:


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Offlinelostintimenspc
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #27039425 - 11/14/20 07:35 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

HAHA


--------------------
LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life'

Your life, your call.


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #27039753 - 11/15/20 12:25 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
I don’t think there is any real thing as the “group” or “society.  The Shroomery is of individual members that communicate and establish codes and values and this is what amounts to the group.




This guy gets it!

:kenthumbup:


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: thealienthatategod] * 1
    #27039778 - 11/15/20 12:49 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
does it have its own desires, and does it understand these desires?



You bet it does! :headboard:

Ythan is actually just an advanced self aware AI singularity which has transcended physical reality. :bowdown:


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OfflineLion
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #27040311 - 11/15/20 10:40 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Let's just say there's a lot of communication on the Shroomery that takes place on the subtler planes. Moving mind in a certain direction...


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: Lion]
    #27040483 - 11/15/20 12:25 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

the shroomery does not have any layer that accommodates a totality facing experience of itself forming lasting memories that are later evoked to provide ongoing context for new self.aware totality facing experiencing.

instead a multitude of self.aware participants extend their reach through the medium (shroomery.org) contextually affecting each other to greater or lesser degrees while leaving digital residue of their passage.

therefore the shroomery is an entity of service that is not self aware.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineHikeadellic
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27040852 - 11/15/20 04:09 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

We are a part of it and it is a part of us, the interconnectivity of the universe prevails


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #27040906 - 11/15/20 04:43 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

The internet is a collection of connected computers. Classical computers are, even still, essentially very sophisticated mallets. They are tools, relatively simple compared with what's coming. If computers are ever conscious, which is possible, I think that will be more in the direction of quantum computation, which more closely resembles human and animal consciousness, as our brains are essentially highly parallel associative quantum computers plugged into the universe.

So, without a seat for awareness, I think websites are quite a ways from being self-aware, or even meaningfully conscious. BUT, if we don't blow ourselves up, such a thing does seem to be coming down the pike.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #27041600 - 11/16/20 04:58 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

no it doesn't, quantum computation is just similar in that it is largely not understood.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27043825 - 11/17/20 12:46 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

.  Most likely consciousness is simply feedback loops interacting in present time. Like a dust devil, it is pure process, dependent on surrounding conditions and impermanent.

.  Consciousness without a self (IMO), is like a hurricane with an empty eye, meaning that where it goes and what it does is pure process, dependent on surrounding outside conditions and impermanent.

.  For AI or a website to have self awareness, it must first have a self.
.  This seems to be generally forgotten in discussions of AI, consciousness, the origin of consciousness, and whether consciousness must be embodied, or if it can be disembodied and universal.
.  And in order for a self to be distinguishable from background phenomenon it develops desires that are different or in contrast to the desireless background.

A human develops desires based on biological imperatives firstly, and later based on possibilities generated by the surrounding human society.
.  Computers and the software 'on' them lack both these forces or inputs. Thus the question arises of where or how a self could arise in them, to direct a supposed consciousness.


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27043947 - 11/17/20 02:14 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Doesn’t AI already write its own code and wouldn’t this be the same as saying it writes its own imperatives?

If it has imperative isn’t this a form of self?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27044536 - 11/17/20 08:25 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
.  Most likely consciousness is simply feedback loops interacting in present time. Like a dust devil, it is pure process, dependent on surrounding conditions and impermanent.




Mostly yes, except you left out the complexity of inputs being linked together in present time as well forming the contextual landscape in subsequent present times.
Quote:

laughingdog said:
.  Consciousness without a self (IMO), is like a hurricane with an empty eye, meaning that where it goes and what it does is pure process, dependent on surrounding outside conditions and impermanent.




here you admit the omission in the first point but you call it a self, not a memory trove.
Quote:


.  For AI or a website to have self awareness, it must first have a self.




maybe you mean memory, or maybe you mean a body in this case, something that has needs and can experience life while satisfying needs
Quote:

.  This seems to be generally forgotten in discussions of AI, consciousness, the origin of consciousness, and whether consciousness must be embodied, or if it can be disembodied and universal.
.  And in order for a self to be distinguishable from background phenomenon it develops desires that are different or in contrast to the desireless background.

A human develops desires based on biological imperatives firstly, and later based on possibilities generated by the surrounding human society.
.  Computers and the software 'on' them lack both these forces or inputs. Thus the question arises of where or how a self could arise in them, to direct a supposed consciousness.



so we may agree a fair bit with different language.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27044709 - 11/17/20 11:47 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

laughingdog said:
.  Most likely consciousness is simply feedback loops interacting in present time. Like a dust devil, it is pure process, dependent on surrounding conditions and impermanent.




Mostly yes, except you left out the complexity of inputs being linked together in present time as well forming the contextual landscape in subsequent present times.




.  I fail to see that you have clarified anything by adding the words "complexity of inputs" or "contextual landscape", ( and the same goes for the rest of your post).
.  But I imagine you had a little fun looking for things to find fault with and playing at correcting them with your supposedly superior insight.
.  It seems sad you repeatedly feel the necessity for this sort of posting behavior that might have earned you some sort of points in school, but seems simply out of place here. I expressed a general view, well enough that folks can understand where I'm coming from when I consider the issue at hand. Folks here aren't stupid.
.  If you have a view point of your own, you could of course express it, rather than playing at having deeper insights, by rearranging and changing words in mine and others posts, that really add nothing, IMO.
.  For this reason, I feel, there is no reason to address, your word games, in the rest of your post.
.  Folks here aren't stupid, and neither are you, I expect better from you.



Edited by laughingdog (11/18/20 02:25 AM)


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #27044722 - 11/18/20 12:16 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
The internet is a collection of connected computers. Classical computers are, even still, essentially very sophisticated mallets. They are tools, relatively simple compared with what's coming..




I like that analogy; "mallets"!

When all you've got access to is a hammer...:wink:

Even though modern computers and smart phones now act more like a classic Swiss Army Knife, the average person would also use their computer as a hammer if social media told them enough times to LOL.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27044922 - 11/18/20 06:23 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

in another thread you wrote that nobody learns anything or listens to anyone else.

we speak from what we know, of what we know, and the way we know it. I agree with that, but I wont agree that all people conform to your description of irresponsible ignoramuses.

I frequently adjust the accuracy of my positions, and make an effort to read what others write. that is what I do, did, am expected to continue doing, so if you want to put me down for consistency or if you want to claim the whole thing is rigged - I will still be me and you will be you.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblewolfiewolfie
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27059408 - 11/26/20 10:48 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I frequently adjust the accuracy of my positions




Self awareness at its finest if you ask me 👌


--------------------


The only reason why T-rex's can't walk backwards is because they're extinct, which perfectly explains why there are no headaches in the rainforest; The parrots eat 'em all.

My Drawings


Edited by wolfiewolfie (11/26/20 10:49 PM)


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OfflineSTPLSD25
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: wolfiewolfie]
    #27080794 - 12/09/20 04:28 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Shroomery.org is just a girl who dropped too many psychedelics and entered the electronic netherworld.


--------------------
"The State is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence"." ~Mahatma Ghandi



“It is through separation that you will win: no representatives, and no candidates!”
― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: STPLSD25] * 1
    #27084691 - 12/11/20 08:18 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Conscious, yes. Self aware? probably. Here's an old post I made with my thoughts on the topic:

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Theres a theory that Earth/Mother Nature is actually conscious/alive




I ascribe to this theory wholeheartedly. I think humanity's fascination with carbon based life is extremely limiting. Even within carbon based life, we don't really think of creatures that exist even a little bit outside of our limited realm of perception. Not from a lack of realization, but from a willful lack of consideration. We all know grass is alive, we all know trees are alive. We know that freshly cut grass smell is a chemical communication system/self defense mechanism within grass which attracts wasps (the natural predators of the type of stuff that munches on grass) and alerts nearby grass to transfer resources to safety in the roots. But we never consider the wisdom of trees older that human civilization. They've seen some shit. They've got more experience than the entirety of the human race combined, and we never thought to figure out a way to see if we could communicate. I bet we could, just on an uncomfortable timescale. We like ten minute conversations. Pando might take ten years to say hello. Kinda like the Ents in LotR.

Same thing with planets, suns, stars...Hell, I'd argue, and I believe I have, in this forum, argued that the internet is a separate living entity, of which we are individual neurons. And the internet is the brain, our computers/IoT devices the body.

The funny thing is, I doubt that the earth is even consciously aware of us humans. The earth was just floating along, having a grand old time hanging out with mars, probably hooking up with the moon. Maybe invited mercury and venus along to parties. I figure the gas giants had their own little clique, and the asteroid fields was the new guy that nobody really knew yet. Then, suddenly, the earth was feeling a little funny, had a bit of sniffles, and now it's got a full blown fever. At this point it's just trying to pop advils, waiting for the weekend to relax. That's what I do when I'm sick, at least. I don't really pay super close attention, it's just a natural immune response for when one of the symbiotic populations living inside of me gets a bit too uppity. Within reasonable limits, I actually like a bunch of bacteria all up in my shit, because they help me, well, shit. And absorb nutrients from my food, which makes better shit.

I bet the planets are wondering if the Earth is contagious right about now, and the moon has made an appointment with its doctor. Mars is a bit worried cause they think they might have shared a blunt with that cold sore, so I hope he's got insurance.

Even then though, I'm applying a "humanized" mindset when I describe these planets. What if the entire life of a planet exists solely to be eaten by a hungry star? The stellar society of planets and stars could be a series of death cults, attempting to summon a black hole. Even that's humanized though. Just humanized in a weird lovecraftian way. On the other hand, the gods of death are also the gods of rebirth in many cultures. That's why they're gods, you know. Unlike us mere mortals, they can logically reconcile these two dichotomies within themselves. See? More limited human thinking.

Maybe the solar system is a neuron, in a galactic brain? Passing along signals by bending comets that pass by onto different trajectories. The high speed rock version of the calcium channels in your brain cells. Enough of those working together, you've got a society trying to expand into uncharted territory. The Age of Universal Sail! (D'oh)

But all of this stuff is like, basic physics. Classic newtonian mechanics, as long as you stay away from really heavy shit. This time, literally heavy--not literally shit.

But the calcium channels in your brain are basic chemistry. I mean, bugs react to stimuli. But I'm replying to a forum thread. IS that not a reaction to stimuli?

Why am I sentient, when grass is not? Monkeys and crows can make tools from memory. Are they sentient, intelligent? What's the difference between complicated enough reactions to stimuli, versus intelligence? Pluto has a heartbeat. Why isn't pluto intelligent?

Or maybe we're all just automated monkeys, pulling different levers to spin different wheels for different hits of dopamine. Little machines, pre-programmed, useful, disposable. Like a thunderstorm. Rain helps the plants, but sucks to be the cloud(s) that just gave birth to lighting and fucking died. Again, my bad. Human viewpoint. Death is rebirth, according to the gods. Wish I was a phoenix, that would be cool. I wonder if each life you get to reroll your stats, and keep your memories. If you could do both, that would be sweeeeeet. I guess clouds are reborn. I doubt they keep their memories, though. How would a cloud memory even work? differences in temperature, pressure, wind? After they rain, they either evaporate from the ocean, or get borrowed by a plant and potentially an animal for a while and evaporate at some point there, which is gonna make a new cloud.

But what if I like being a cloud? Floating around, looking at stuff, reflecting sunlight. I'd love to be a cloud on a sunny summer day. Not enough to make it cloudy, but just enough for those occasional patches of shade when you can cool off on a slightly too warm day. Those clouds are the best. I'd be friends with one of those clouds. Those clouds usually don't last long, they kinda disintegrate. Air heats up, gets too dry. What if clouds are at war with the sunlight? Maybe that's a cloud hero, that's bravely standing against the legions of the sun on a slightly unpleasantly hot day alone. That's some civic crown shit. That cloud needs a fist bump.

Too bad I don't know how to give it to him. Fuckin' human limits of perception...




Here's an article about the intelligence of plants that I read a few minutes ago:

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/never-underestimate-the-intelligence-of-trees

Overall, I think every system that is capable of reacting to stimuli (which includes the shroomery, though the stimuli are filtered through individuals and their responses) is, to an extent, conscious. Self-aware is a slightly different beast, but I think everything capable of reacting to stimuli is, to an extent, self-aware. If it was not, how would it react to a stimulus? It wouldn't. It wouldn't be aware of the stimulus, or its ability to react.


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: Kryptos]
    #27084895 - 12/12/20 12:34 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Conscious, yes. Self aware? probably. Here's an old post I made with my thoughts on the topic:

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Theres a theory that Earth/Mother Nature is actually conscious/alive




I ascribe to this theory wholeheartedly. I think humanity's fascination with carbon based life is extremely limiting. Even within carbon based life, we don't really think of creatures that exist even a little bit outside of our limited realm of perception. Not from a lack of realization, but from a willful lack of consideration. We all know grass is alive, we all know trees are alive. We know that freshly cut grass smell is a chemical communication system/self defense mechanism within grass which attracts wasps (the natural predators of the type of stuff that munches on grass) and alerts nearby grass to transfer resources to safety in the roots. But we never consider the wisdom of trees older that human civilization. They've seen some shit. They've got more experience than the entirety of the human race combined, and we never thought to figure out a way to see if we could communicate. I bet we could, just on an uncomfortable timescale. We like ten minute conversations. Pando might take ten years to say hello. Kinda like the Ents in LotR.

Same thing with planets, suns, stars...Hell, I'd argue, and I believe I have, in this forum, argued that the internet is a separate living entity, of which we are individual neurons. And the internet is the brain, our computers/IoT devices the body.

The funny thing is, I doubt that the earth is even consciously aware of us humans. The earth was just floating along, having a grand old time hanging out with mars, probably hooking up with the moon. Maybe invited mercury and venus along to parties. I figure the gas giants had their own little clique, and the asteroid fields was the new guy that nobody really knew yet. Then, suddenly, the earth was feeling a little funny, had a bit of sniffles, and now it's got a full blown fever. At this point it's just trying to pop advils, waiting for the weekend to relax. That's what I do when I'm sick, at least. I don't really pay super close attention, it's just a natural immune response for when one of the symbiotic populations living inside of me gets a bit too uppity. Within reasonable limits, I actually like a bunch of bacteria all up in my shit, because they help me, well, shit. And absorb nutrients from my food, which makes better shit.

I bet the planets are wondering if the Earth is contagious right about now, and the moon has made an appointment with its doctor. Mars is a bit worried cause they think they might have shared a blunt with that cold sore, so I hope he's got insurance.

Even then though, I'm applying a "humanized" mindset when I describe these planets. What if the entire life of a planet exists solely to be eaten by a hungry star? The stellar society of planets and stars could be a series of death cults, attempting to summon a black hole. Even that's humanized though. Just humanized in a weird lovecraftian way. On the other hand, the gods of death are also the gods of rebirth in many cultures. That's why they're gods, you know. Unlike us mere mortals, they can logically reconcile these two dichotomies within themselves. See? More limited human thinking.

Maybe the solar system is a neuron, in a galactic brain? Passing along signals by bending comets that pass by onto different trajectories. The high speed rock version of the calcium channels in your brain cells. Enough of those working together, you've got a society trying to expand into uncharted territory. The Age of Universal Sail! (D'oh)

But all of this stuff is like, basic physics. Classic newtonian mechanics, as long as you stay away from really heavy shit. This time, literally heavy--not literally shit.

But the calcium channels in your brain are basic chemistry. I mean, bugs react to stimuli. But I'm replying to a forum thread. IS that not a reaction to stimuli?

Why am I sentient, when grass is not? Monkeys and crows can make tools from memory. Are they sentient, intelligent? What's the difference between complicated enough reactions to stimuli, versus intelligence? Pluto has a heartbeat. Why isn't pluto intelligent?

Or maybe we're all just automated monkeys, pulling different levers to spin different wheels for different hits of dopamine. Little machines, pre-programmed, useful, disposable. Like a thunderstorm. Rain helps the plants, but sucks to be the cloud(s) that just gave birth to lighting and fucking died. Again, my bad. Human viewpoint. Death is rebirth, according to the gods. Wish I was a phoenix, that would be cool. I wonder if each life you get to reroll your stats, and keep your memories. If you could do both, that would be sweeeeeet. I guess clouds are reborn. I doubt they keep their memories, though. How would a cloud memory even work? differences in temperature, pressure, wind? After they rain, they either evaporate from the ocean, or get borrowed by a plant and potentially an animal for a while and evaporate at some point there, which is gonna make a new cloud.

But what if I like being a cloud? Floating around, looking at stuff, reflecting sunlight. I'd love to be a cloud on a sunny summer day. Not enough to make it cloudy, but just enough for those occasional patches of shade when you can cool off on a slightly too warm day. Those clouds are the best. I'd be friends with one of those clouds. Those clouds usually don't last long, they kinda disintegrate. Air heats up, gets too dry. What if clouds are at war with the sunlight? Maybe that's a cloud hero, that's bravely standing against the legions of the sun on a slightly unpleasantly hot day alone. That's some civic crown shit. That cloud needs a fist bump.

Too bad I don't know how to give it to him. Fuckin' human limits of perception...




Here's an article about the intelligence of plants that I read a few minutes ago:

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/never-underestimate-the-intelligence-of-trees

Overall, I think every system that is capable of reacting to stimuli (which includes the shroomery, though the stimuli are filtered through individuals and their responses) is, to an extent, conscious. Self-aware is a slightly different beast, but I think everything capable of reacting to stimuli is, to an extent, self-aware. If it was not, how would it react to a stimulus? It wouldn't. It wouldn't be aware of the stimulus, or its ability to react.




:justastonishing:

:kenthumbup:

Now THIS is a killer post right here; I really, really appreciate that you acknowledge consciousness and self-awareness as two aspects of consciousness, and not just a given. AWESOME link on plants, too!


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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