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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: laughingdog]
#27044922 - 11/18/20 06:23 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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in another thread you wrote that nobody learns anything or listens to anyone else.
we speak from what we know, of what we know, and the way we know it. I agree with that, but I wont agree that all people conform to your description of irresponsible ignoramuses.
I frequently adjust the accuracy of my positions, and make an effort to read what others write. that is what I do, did, am expected to continue doing, so if you want to put me down for consistency or if you want to claim the whole thing is rigged - I will still be me and you will be you.
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wolfiewolfie
Just wingin' it.


Registered: 06/16/15
Posts: 2,177
Loc: Australia
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: I frequently adjust the accuracy of my positions
Self awareness at its finest if you ask me π
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The only reason why T-rex's can't walk backwards is because they're extinct, which perfectly explains why there are no headaches in the rainforest; The parrots eat 'em all. My Drawings
Edited by wolfiewolfie (11/26/20 10:49 PM)
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STPLSD25
Shaman


Registered: 10/14/20
Posts: 329
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Shroomery.org is just a girl who dropped too many psychedelics and entered the electronic netherworld.
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"The State is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence"." ~Mahatma Ghandi βIt is through separation that you will win: no representatives, and no candidates!β β Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
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Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,262
Last seen: 1 hour, 20 minutes
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: STPLSD25] 1
#27084691 - 12/11/20 08:18 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Conscious, yes. Self aware? probably. Here's an old post I made with my thoughts on the topic:
Quote:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: Theres a theory that Earth/Mother Nature is actually conscious/alive
I ascribe to this theory wholeheartedly. I think humanity's fascination with carbon based life is extremely limiting. Even within carbon based life, we don't really think of creatures that exist even a little bit outside of our limited realm of perception. Not from a lack of realization, but from a willful lack of consideration. We all know grass is alive, we all know trees are alive. We know that freshly cut grass smell is a chemical communication system/self defense mechanism within grass which attracts wasps (the natural predators of the type of stuff that munches on grass) and alerts nearby grass to transfer resources to safety in the roots. But we never consider the wisdom of trees older that human civilization. They've seen some shit. They've got more experience than the entirety of the human race combined, and we never thought to figure out a way to see if we could communicate. I bet we could, just on an uncomfortable timescale. We like ten minute conversations. Pando might take ten years to say hello. Kinda like the Ents in LotR.
Same thing with planets, suns, stars...Hell, I'd argue, and I believe I have, in this forum, argued that the internet is a separate living entity, of which we are individual neurons. And the internet is the brain, our computers/IoT devices the body.
The funny thing is, I doubt that the earth is even consciously aware of us humans. The earth was just floating along, having a grand old time hanging out with mars, probably hooking up with the moon. Maybe invited mercury and venus along to parties. I figure the gas giants had their own little clique, and the asteroid fields was the new guy that nobody really knew yet. Then, suddenly, the earth was feeling a little funny, had a bit of sniffles, and now it's got a full blown fever. At this point it's just trying to pop advils, waiting for the weekend to relax. That's what I do when I'm sick, at least. I don't really pay super close attention, it's just a natural immune response for when one of the symbiotic populations living inside of me gets a bit too uppity. Within reasonable limits, I actually like a bunch of bacteria all up in my shit, because they help me, well, shit. And absorb nutrients from my food, which makes better shit.
I bet the planets are wondering if the Earth is contagious right about now, and the moon has made an appointment with its doctor. Mars is a bit worried cause they think they might have shared a blunt with that cold sore, so I hope he's got insurance.
Even then though, I'm applying a "humanized" mindset when I describe these planets. What if the entire life of a planet exists solely to be eaten by a hungry star? The stellar society of planets and stars could be a series of death cults, attempting to summon a black hole. Even that's humanized though. Just humanized in a weird lovecraftian way. On the other hand, the gods of death are also the gods of rebirth in many cultures. That's why they're gods, you know. Unlike us mere mortals, they can logically reconcile these two dichotomies within themselves. See? More limited human thinking.
Maybe the solar system is a neuron, in a galactic brain? Passing along signals by bending comets that pass by onto different trajectories. The high speed rock version of the calcium channels in your brain cells. Enough of those working together, you've got a society trying to expand into uncharted territory. The Age of Universal Sail! (D'oh)
But all of this stuff is like, basic physics. Classic newtonian mechanics, as long as you stay away from really heavy shit. This time, literally heavy--not literally shit.
But the calcium channels in your brain are basic chemistry. I mean, bugs react to stimuli. But I'm replying to a forum thread. IS that not a reaction to stimuli?
Why am I sentient, when grass is not? Monkeys and crows can make tools from memory. Are they sentient, intelligent? What's the difference between complicated enough reactions to stimuli, versus intelligence? Pluto has a heartbeat. Why isn't pluto intelligent?
Or maybe we're all just automated monkeys, pulling different levers to spin different wheels for different hits of dopamine. Little machines, pre-programmed, useful, disposable. Like a thunderstorm. Rain helps the plants, but sucks to be the cloud(s) that just gave birth to lighting and fucking died. Again, my bad. Human viewpoint. Death is rebirth, according to the gods. Wish I was a phoenix, that would be cool. I wonder if each life you get to reroll your stats, and keep your memories. If you could do both, that would be sweeeeeet. I guess clouds are reborn. I doubt they keep their memories, though. How would a cloud memory even work? differences in temperature, pressure, wind? After they rain, they either evaporate from the ocean, or get borrowed by a plant and potentially an animal for a while and evaporate at some point there, which is gonna make a new cloud.
But what if I like being a cloud? Floating around, looking at stuff, reflecting sunlight. I'd love to be a cloud on a sunny summer day. Not enough to make it cloudy, but just enough for those occasional patches of shade when you can cool off on a slightly too warm day. Those clouds are the best. I'd be friends with one of those clouds. Those clouds usually don't last long, they kinda disintegrate. Air heats up, gets too dry. What if clouds are at war with the sunlight? Maybe that's a cloud hero, that's bravely standing against the legions of the sun on a slightly unpleasantly hot day alone. That's some civic crown shit. That cloud needs a fist bump.
Too bad I don't know how to give it to him. Fuckin' human limits of perception...
Here's an article about the intelligence of plants that I read a few minutes ago:
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/never-underestimate-the-intelligence-of-trees
Overall, I think every system that is capable of reacting to stimuli (which includes the shroomery, though the stimuli are filtered through individuals and their responses) is, to an extent, conscious. Self-aware is a slightly different beast, but I think everything capable of reacting to stimuli is, to an extent, self-aware. If it was not, how would it react to a stimulus? It wouldn't. It wouldn't be aware of the stimulus, or its ability to react.
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 2 hours
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Re: is shroomery.org self aware? [Re: Kryptos]
#27084895 - 12/12/20 12:34 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said: Conscious, yes. Self aware? probably. Here's an old post I made with my thoughts on the topic:
Quote:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: Theres a theory that Earth/Mother Nature is actually conscious/alive
I ascribe to this theory wholeheartedly. I think humanity's fascination with carbon based life is extremely limiting. Even within carbon based life, we don't really think of creatures that exist even a little bit outside of our limited realm of perception. Not from a lack of realization, but from a willful lack of consideration. We all know grass is alive, we all know trees are alive. We know that freshly cut grass smell is a chemical communication system/self defense mechanism within grass which attracts wasps (the natural predators of the type of stuff that munches on grass) and alerts nearby grass to transfer resources to safety in the roots. But we never consider the wisdom of trees older that human civilization. They've seen some shit. They've got more experience than the entirety of the human race combined, and we never thought to figure out a way to see if we could communicate. I bet we could, just on an uncomfortable timescale. We like ten minute conversations. Pando might take ten years to say hello. Kinda like the Ents in LotR.
Same thing with planets, suns, stars...Hell, I'd argue, and I believe I have, in this forum, argued that the internet is a separate living entity, of which we are individual neurons. And the internet is the brain, our computers/IoT devices the body.
The funny thing is, I doubt that the earth is even consciously aware of us humans. The earth was just floating along, having a grand old time hanging out with mars, probably hooking up with the moon. Maybe invited mercury and venus along to parties. I figure the gas giants had their own little clique, and the asteroid fields was the new guy that nobody really knew yet. Then, suddenly, the earth was feeling a little funny, had a bit of sniffles, and now it's got a full blown fever. At this point it's just trying to pop advils, waiting for the weekend to relax. That's what I do when I'm sick, at least. I don't really pay super close attention, it's just a natural immune response for when one of the symbiotic populations living inside of me gets a bit too uppity. Within reasonable limits, I actually like a bunch of bacteria all up in my shit, because they help me, well, shit. And absorb nutrients from my food, which makes better shit.
I bet the planets are wondering if the Earth is contagious right about now, and the moon has made an appointment with its doctor. Mars is a bit worried cause they think they might have shared a blunt with that cold sore, so I hope he's got insurance.
Even then though, I'm applying a "humanized" mindset when I describe these planets. What if the entire life of a planet exists solely to be eaten by a hungry star? The stellar society of planets and stars could be a series of death cults, attempting to summon a black hole. Even that's humanized though. Just humanized in a weird lovecraftian way. On the other hand, the gods of death are also the gods of rebirth in many cultures. That's why they're gods, you know. Unlike us mere mortals, they can logically reconcile these two dichotomies within themselves. See? More limited human thinking.
Maybe the solar system is a neuron, in a galactic brain? Passing along signals by bending comets that pass by onto different trajectories. The high speed rock version of the calcium channels in your brain cells. Enough of those working together, you've got a society trying to expand into uncharted territory. The Age of Universal Sail! (D'oh)
But all of this stuff is like, basic physics. Classic newtonian mechanics, as long as you stay away from really heavy shit. This time, literally heavy--not literally shit.
But the calcium channels in your brain are basic chemistry. I mean, bugs react to stimuli. But I'm replying to a forum thread. IS that not a reaction to stimuli?
Why am I sentient, when grass is not? Monkeys and crows can make tools from memory. Are they sentient, intelligent? What's the difference between complicated enough reactions to stimuli, versus intelligence? Pluto has a heartbeat. Why isn't pluto intelligent?
Or maybe we're all just automated monkeys, pulling different levers to spin different wheels for different hits of dopamine. Little machines, pre-programmed, useful, disposable. Like a thunderstorm. Rain helps the plants, but sucks to be the cloud(s) that just gave birth to lighting and fucking died. Again, my bad. Human viewpoint. Death is rebirth, according to the gods. Wish I was a phoenix, that would be cool. I wonder if each life you get to reroll your stats, and keep your memories. If you could do both, that would be sweeeeeet. I guess clouds are reborn. I doubt they keep their memories, though. How would a cloud memory even work? differences in temperature, pressure, wind? After they rain, they either evaporate from the ocean, or get borrowed by a plant and potentially an animal for a while and evaporate at some point there, which is gonna make a new cloud.
But what if I like being a cloud? Floating around, looking at stuff, reflecting sunlight. I'd love to be a cloud on a sunny summer day. Not enough to make it cloudy, but just enough for those occasional patches of shade when you can cool off on a slightly too warm day. Those clouds are the best. I'd be friends with one of those clouds. Those clouds usually don't last long, they kinda disintegrate. Air heats up, gets too dry. What if clouds are at war with the sunlight? Maybe that's a cloud hero, that's bravely standing against the legions of the sun on a slightly unpleasantly hot day alone. That's some civic crown shit. That cloud needs a fist bump.
Too bad I don't know how to give it to him. Fuckin' human limits of perception...
Here's an article about the intelligence of plants that I read a few minutes ago:
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/never-underestimate-the-intelligence-of-trees
Overall, I think every system that is capable of reacting to stimuli (which includes the shroomery, though the stimuli are filtered through individuals and their responses) is, to an extent, conscious. Self-aware is a slightly different beast, but I think everything capable of reacting to stimuli is, to an extent, self-aware. If it was not, how would it react to a stimulus? It wouldn't. It wouldn't be aware of the stimulus, or its ability to react.


Now THIS is a killer post right here; I really, really appreciate that you acknowledge consciousness and self-awareness as two aspects of consciousness, and not just a given. AWESOME link on plants, too!
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of oneβs ignorance." β Confucius
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