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DavidF
voyageur

Registered: 11/01/20
Posts: 12
Last seen: 20 days, 17 hours
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Psilocybe aztecorum in Vermont? 1
#27035283 - 11/12/20 01:30 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I posted a week ago with this find but my pictures were crap. Fortunately two more came up. These were found growing in a garden off a porch (mine:) The caps were slimy when wet. The stems twirly and hollow. Both bruised blue/green. The spore purple. Here some pics:








It would obviously be super cool if these were Psilocybe aztecorum. If not that, can we say they are edible? If they are not active or they are weak that is okay, but I want to know if they might be confused with something dangerous.
Thank you
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rud_dudl
Stranger

Registered: 10/16/18
Posts: 129
Last seen: 4 months, 29 days
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Vermont? [Re: DavidF]
#27035327 - 11/12/20 02:00 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hi David, This is very interesting. Could you take some measurements of the stipe and cap? Do you have a microscope to check spore size and presence (and shape) of the cystidia? Were they growing on woody debris in your garden or in the soil? Also, the spore print colour looks more brownish than purplish..but it is hard to tell from photos.
Quebecybin has seen more of the within-species variation in field collected specimens than I have, he may be better able to ID.
R_D
Edited by rud_dudl (11/12/20 02:13 PM)
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ZenZone



Registered: 02/18/17
Posts: 931
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Vermont? [Re: rud_dudl]
#27035401 - 11/12/20 02:53 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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The print on the tin foil is pretty clear, blue bruising is also clear. Definitely psilocybe, but I'm not sure which species. What a lucky find!
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masspan
l'eclair


Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 5,268
Loc:
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Vermont? [Re: ZenZone]
#27035516 - 11/12/20 04:09 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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that's super lucky lol
i want to move to a house, be having a cup of coffee, look down at the yard and be like 'helloooo....'
nice find
--------------------
my mother said, to get things done, you'd better not mess with Major Tom...whose status is the baddest, everytime 'they' bless the apparatus
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breeg89
i'll tell ya hwhat

Registered: 05/04/11
Posts: 3,120
Loc: mass
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Vermont? [Re: masspan]
#27035884 - 11/12/20 07:53 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Holy hell, what a find. Definitely expected this to be a bolete or something just based on the thread title. Not sure what it is, but 100% Psilocybe.
Need a TI in here asap.
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Blazer420
ŦøжїϿ ÐȐȜȧƜƐȓ


Registered: 06/13/09
Posts: 4,825
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Vermont? [Re: breeg89]
#27035908 - 11/12/20 08:05 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nice find, wait for a TI for confirmation.
-------------------- ~ I used to get high on life, until I realized life was cut with morons ~ * You need 2 wake up and smell the music! * -We are all computer data in a materialistic world- |Sometimes you have to lose yourself, to find anything|
 
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ZenZone



Registered: 02/18/17
Posts: 931
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Vermont? [Re: Blazer420]
#27035929 - 11/12/20 08:25 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well while the shroomery's psilocybe location assessment does not include Psilocybe aztecorum in the Vermont section, mushroomobserver.org does have a record of an observation in Vermont.
I just don't know what else can those be other than aztecorum But yeah, can't wait for TI
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inski
Cortinariologist



Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 5,746
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Vermont? [Re: ZenZone]
#27035986 - 11/12/20 09:36 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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It looks like Psilocybe baeocystis
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Moria841



Registered: 07/02/18
Posts: 4,935
Loc: NJ
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Vermont? [Re: inski]
#27036008 - 11/12/20 10:03 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
inski said: It looks like Psilocybe baeocystis
Yeah, it's either this or P. aztecorum. P. baeocystis was supposedly reported from Maine, so it's possible it's in Vermont too
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ZenZone



Registered: 02/18/17
Posts: 931
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Vermont? [Re: inski]
#27036012 - 11/12/20 10:05 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
inski said: It looks like Psilocybe baeocystis
Dang it... it sure does
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ZenZone



Registered: 02/18/17
Posts: 931
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Vermont? [Re: Moria841]
#27036014 - 11/12/20 10:07 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moria841 said:
Yeah, it's either this or P. aztecorum. P. baeocystis was supposedly reported from Maine, so it's possible it's in Vermont too
So baeos aren't exclusive to the PNW then?
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Moria841



Registered: 07/02/18
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Vermont? [Re: ZenZone]
#27036020 - 11/12/20 10:12 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well the supposed collection from Maine, if memory serves, wasn't all that well documented, so I'm not sure if that's really what it was
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raffib128
Stranger


Registered: 08/05/20
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Loc: Vermont
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Vermont? [Re: Moria841]
#27036351 - 11/13/20 04:01 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Also, if they were found in a garden, doesn't that mean that soil or mulch or a plant could have been harboring spores and this is an isolated patch? Or possibly someone who lived there in the past cultivated these?
Very interested in this thread. It would be awesome to be able to find either P. aztecorum or P. baeocystis here in Vermont!
-------------------- Same username on Inaturalist.
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rud_dudl
Stranger

Registered: 10/16/18
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Last seen: 4 months, 29 days
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Vermont? [Re: raffib128]
#27036412 - 11/13/20 05:42 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hi all, the undulating cap margin definitely suggests P. baeocystis. Plus the spore print colour doesn't seem right for P. aztecorum.
Raffi, it seems that P. aztecorum/quebecensis should grow in Vermont given your proximity to Quebec. Also, someone reported it from Vermont on mushroomobserver as ZenZone pointed out, and Quebecybin found it near the Vermont border but in Quebec.
It would be interesting to get a sense of the distribution of P. aztecorum in Vermont...and for that matter, across the entire continent. It has been found here in NS a couple times. One of the spots where it grows here (in the Annapolis Valley) just finished fruiting this weekend, or so it seems.
R_D
edit: also, David's collection shows significant blue bruising. From my limited experience, P. aztecorum/quebecensis bruises blue but not as much as P. baeocystis. I have no idea how reliable an indicator the level of bruising is though...
Edited by rud_dudl (11/13/20 05:46 AM)
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Vermont? [Re: rud_dudl]
#27036453 - 11/13/20 06:33 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't think its either of those, this most likely Ps. quebecensis
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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DavidF
voyageur

Registered: 11/01/20
Posts: 12
Last seen: 20 days, 17 hours
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Vermont? [Re: Doc9151]
#27036468 - 11/13/20 06:49 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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How long to spores remain viable in the wild? On clothing? When I was a child my family traveled extensively in Oaxaca and the highlands of Guatemala. When my father died in May,I brought home much of the fiber art collection he gathered on those trips. Some of these garments I shook out over the garden where the mushrooms were found.
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ZenZone



Registered: 02/18/17
Posts: 931
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Vermont? [Re: Doc9151]
#27036470 - 11/13/20 06:51 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm confused now... I thought aztecorum and quebecensis are the same species Here is a relevant thread Where is Alan?
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rud_dudl
Stranger

Registered: 10/16/18
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Last seen: 4 months, 29 days
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Vermont? [Re: ZenZone]
#27036484 - 11/13/20 07:03 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hi Zenzone, from my understanding P. quebecensis and P. aztecorum are the same species. Even Guzman suggested this possibility decades ago. But, his work was based on one collection (or a very small number of collections) from Quebec. So, his macro- and micro-scopic description of the species likely did not reflect the full variation of this species and if he had access to more specimens he might have recognized it as P. aztecorum. Since then, Alan Rockefeller has found that their sequences (at least some conserved part of the ITS region) are identical.
Having said all that, the sequence work (and probably a macro- and micro-scopic review of more specimens) has to be submitted via manuscript form for peer review in order for this change to be recognized by, and communicated with, the scientific community. This is how we generate scientific knowledge, otherwise, things get very confusing (as we can see).
David, I think it is more likely that your collection is P. baeocystis. I would not be comfortable making that call without more info about it, including microscopic info. Also, while it is theoretically possible that some P. aztecorum (= quebecensis) spores hitchhiked in your parent's imported fibres, it is more likely that the species naturally occurs there and has for a long time.
R_D
Edited by rud_dudl (11/13/20 07:05 AM)
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ZenZone



Registered: 02/18/17
Posts: 931
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Vermont? [Re: rud_dudl]
#27036489 - 11/13/20 07:12 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
rud_dudl said: Hi Zenzone, from my understanding P. quebecensis and P. aztecorum are the same species. Even Guzman suggested this possibility decades ago. But, his work was based on one collection (or a very small number of collections) from Quebec. So, his macro- and micro-scopic description of the species likely did not reflect the full variation of this species and if he had access to more specimens he might have recognized it as P. aztecorum. Since then, Alan Rockefeller has found that their sequences (at least some conserved part of the ITS region) are identical.
Having said all that, the sequence work (and probably a macro- and micro-scopic review of more specimens) has to be submitted via manuscript form for peer review in order for this change to be recognized by, and communicated with, the scientific community. This is how we generate scientific knowledge, otherwise, things get very confusing (as we can see).
David, I think it is more likely that your collection is P. baeocystis. I would not be comfortable making that call without more info about it, including microscopic info. Also, while it is theoretically possible that some P. aztecorum (= quebecensis) spores hitchhiked in your parent's imported fibres, it is more likely that the species naturally occurs there and has for a long time.
R_D
This makes a whole lot of sense, thank you Rud_Dudl
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rud_dudl
Stranger

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Posts: 129
Last seen: 4 months, 29 days
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Re: Psilocybe aztecorum in Vermont? [Re: ZenZone]
#27036633 - 11/13/20 09:06 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hi Zenzone, no problem and that is just my understanding of how it all fits together. It's pretty exciting to think that this species (P. aztecorum) may be much more widely distributed than previously thought!
David, whether your sample is P. aztecorum (= quebecensis) or P. baeocystis (or even some other Psilocybe), it's an awesome find. Hopefully we'll see more collections like this from Vermont.
R_D
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