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OfflineInthepit
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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: dfwerydfhg]
    #27031985 - 11/10/20 04:59 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Wow, that looks like 1 to 3.33 spawn


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InvisibleReverendMyc

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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Inthepit]
    #27032008 - 11/10/20 05:18 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Isn't spawn ratio generally by volume rather than weight? So once the coir was expanded to field capacity, the ratio was more likely in line with normal ratios.

Your example was 1000g oats to 500g coir. So 1 to 2 spawn, but that doesn't seem to be how it is usually presented.

Or did sarcasm just fly over my head again?

Edit: spellling


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"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023
Don't Panic




Edited by ReverendMyc (11/10/20 05:37 PM)


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27032022 - 11/10/20 05:32 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Blue Helix said:

  I'd like to give the coco coir with oatmeal a try since it's worked so well for bodhisatta and his protégé and my friend jcm4620.  It sounds pretty incredible.  I really like that it uses coco coir because you can get the ingredients to the substrate on the cheap.




He's not talking about oatmeal, they mean whole oats for horses. Oats are the cereal grain they've chosen for grain spawn.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 3
    #27032050 - 11/10/20 05:49 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Accidentally uses oatmeal. Grows cement


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OfflineInthepit
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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: ReverendMyc]
    #27032058 - 11/10/20 05:52 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Ya that calculation doesn't seem to work.

So for mine it works out 1000g (2 qrts) of oats makes 4 jars @ .75 or less.
A few weeks later 500g coir makes 5 qrt jars.

So I spawn 1 myc jar to one coir jar, mix, level, tamp the edges, and top with some coir per shoebox.


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Edited by Inthepit (11/10/20 06:01 PM)


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27032154 - 11/10/20 06:54 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Accidentally uses oatmeal. Grows cement






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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #27032358 - 11/10/20 09:45 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Accidentally uses oatmeal. Grows cement




Yeah, I know that.  I talked to his protégé jcm4620 or more specifically he called me to tell me of my horrid mistake - not that I was actually going to do that.  I wouldn't because that is too stupid for even me (but a lot of pop stuff on this site qualifies in the stupid department so you never know what you'll read). 

Before I do anything, I usually make sure it's the same stuff that is in the growing literature since like a hundred years ago.  Like what I'm writing about here (the use of LCs) is as old as the hills, and basically nothing here is novel.  The only part that is novel is that I'm brining it up in a decently written grow log (well before it was hijacked) when it isn't fashionable. 

So it sounds like are spawning coco coir and, instead of keeping conditions tight, we throw it all in a big tub since and monitoring the "surface conditions" (whatever that means; it was jcm4620's descriptive of it) since it's kind of well-known that cubensis grows like mad no matter how much you abuse your grow as long as it doesn't flat dry out or drown.

What I liked about the technique--and the reason I want to try it--was simply that despite all the abuse it produces very high yield I read.  That means it is easier, and I know other people who care about that a lot. 

But I'm starting to remember now why I stopped growing cubes 15 years ago - no challenge.  Basically there are no hard rules since it's a weed mushroom.


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27032381 - 11/10/20 10:04 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Pretty much exactly what you just said. Throw spawn into some coir and as long as you don't breathe too hard out of your mouth you'll get mushrooms. Except that it's only that easy after you become accustomed to failure, because anything new comes with a learning curve. Starting something new requires some small degree of bravery due to the fact that it requires you to become a fool. That's why noobs say dumb noob shit, because they've taken the hero's journey down the path towards wisdom. Like Blake said during one of his religious rants that he called poetry "If the fool would persist in his folly he would become wise"

So yeah, cubes are basically weeds, did you start this thread to make some kind of point? There's plenty of interesting work that could be done with this species, seems like you lack imagination. Can't say that I much admire the cut of your jib.


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OfflineHikeadellic
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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27032398 - 11/10/20 10:15 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Do you want to add temperatures and colonization time for science?


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 1
    #27032505 - 11/10/20 11:35 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
Pretty much exactly what you just said. Throw spawn into some coir and as long as you don't breathe too hard out of your mouth you'll get mushrooms. Except that it's only that easy after you become accustomed to failure, because anything new comes with a learning curve. Starting something new requires some small degree of bravery due to the fact that it requires you to become a fool. That's why noobs say dumb noob shit, because they've taken the hero's journey down the path towards wisdom. Like Blake said during one of his religious rants that he called poetry "If the fool would persist in his folly he would become wise"

So yeah, cubes are basically weeds, did you start this thread to make some kind of point? There's plenty of interesting work that could be done with this species, seems like you lack imagination. Can't say that I much admire the cut of your jib.





The first post clearly gave the point.  I wanted to demonstrate that there is more to high yields than clones and monotubs, which are now fashionable, to question orthodoxy basically.  I wanted to give a old tried-and-true technique of using LCs that can be applied just as well to pan cyans as cubensis (in fact it works even better for pans cyans/cambos).  Because so many people have written me thanking me for my threads over the years, I felt compelled to write another here.  Unfortunately, as bodhisatta has repeatedly demonstrated to me, there is this negative vibe going around to new growers or any grower not following the most popular technique of the day.  And I guess if you aren't pulling 200% BE, well, then you are an idiot, despite the fact that 95% of the people in this thread do not pull 200% BE.  In fact, I sensed actual hostility for just answering questions well. 

So here's the deal: like almost all threads, I'm not presenting new material in this one, and I really don't give a fuck what technique people use.  I was just trying to be respectful of questions by answering them because I am a teacher at heart and I love growing mushrooms.  This is precisely the kind of thing that moderators of a cultivation forum should encourage, not discourage with smartass comments.  Had one of the moderators done that back when I was moderator myself for the advanced forum, they would be warned and if they kept doing it, they would not be a moderator for much longer.  Back then moderator trolling wasn't tolerated.  I guess times have changed.

I'm sorry to anyone that was curious about this thread and had to see it closed by this stupid drama, but I'm closing this grow log before I show you that >250% BE can be done more than one way.  I am afraid I have enough self-respect to bow out rather than read smartass stuff such as "yeah we're making cement".  I wouldn't put up with shitheads like that in real life (I'd fire their ass), and I won't here either.

Blue Helix


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27032634 - 11/11/20 01:27 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

You said oatmeal and someone made a joke.

That sends you packing?


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InvisiblefahtsterM
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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: mushboy]
    #27032647 - 11/11/20 01:39 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

:rolleyes:


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: fahtster]
    #27032762 - 11/11/20 04:26 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I thought millennials were sensitive...
Lighten the fuck up blue jesus christ. Shits embarrassing as fuck. These are light-hearted forums and you're melting about a joke for fucks sake. That melt is worth printing and framing.

Jcm ain't my protege either. He's an entirely capable standalone grower. I learned stuff from him maybe he learned stuff from me. But he didn't need me to get where he is.


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OfflineInthepit
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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27032769 - 11/11/20 04:47 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Oh dear, call 911, grower down!

Honestly I was taken a bit aback when from my first post you went on to
say how I shouldn't buy oatmeal at the grocery store,
"About the oatmeal, you shouldn't be measuring wet anything and going backward to try to determine the dry weight.  I did that for you because you didn't have the dry weights, but it doesn't apply to oatmeal.  Oatmeal isn't even a proper grain the way it's sold in stores.  It's chipped or usually steam rolled. "
With a picture of Race Horse Oats, I felt like you were just skimming the response.

Also, I could be wrong, but I thought Coir has no nutritive value.
" Coco coir is a nutritive addition as you can see the mycelium attack it like food, so it definitely must be included."

Anyway sorry people "hijacked" your research, but perhaps there's something else to be learned there?


Edited by Inthepit (11/11/20 09:34 AM)


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OfflineBobbit
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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Inthepit]
    #27033391 - 11/11/20 12:52 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

BE vs oz/quart. . .

I'm running some experiments on the above. . .

I use 55g dry coir/quart hydrated.
I'm using 145g dry rye/quart hydrated.

With clean spawn, I'm assuming that there is yield by spawn weight calc. This makes me assume that more coir will return this in less flushes. . .

I'm not sure BE is a particularly useful metric. . . My experiments may confirm this. . .

Has anyone else done this and published results?

I've been averaging 49g (530ish wet) dry per quart of spawn over 3 flushes. . .
So:
1:1 = 530/200=265%
1:2 = 530/255=208%
1:3 = 530/310=171%


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Bobbit]
    #27033407 - 11/11/20 12:59 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

MS is always a crapshoot, I’ve seen +200% BE first flush with ms, I’ve also seen 50%. Clones give me consistency as cubes vary a lot in terms of yield, colonization speed, potency, etc. I use ms to find clones or advance a generation but, clones are where the yield and consistency is.


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27033441 - 11/11/20 01:18 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Blue Helix said:
Quote:

tripdawg420 said:
every grower should get 10 dry oz average in 2 flushes w 5 qts of spawn:shrug:




Hey, tripdawg420, could you do me a big favor?  I keep reading about these "quarts of spawn".  Can you possibly measure the weight of the dry grains you use for a quart of spawn?  A quart of spawn doesn't mean much to someone who doesn't use spawn like me.  As you know, I use LC direct to bulk.  I used to use spawn a long time ago, but it didn't find all the extra work of making it worth my time once I started using LC techniques.




I doubt youll ever get great yeilds this way. Most of the horsepower is in the grain spawn not the bulk substrate. I run an edible farm now and i even see a noticeable difference in yeilds with the wood loving species according to how much grain spawn i give each bag

As has already been stated genetics is very very important as well


Edited by Stromrider (11/11/20 01:19 PM)


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OfflineEagerNoob42
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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27033579 - 11/11/20 02:53 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Noob here, sorry. What's BE?


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: EagerNoob42]
    #27033580 - 11/11/20 02:54 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Biological Efficiency


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: ModularMind]
    #27033590 - 11/11/20 03:00 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I've always thought the BE calculation is off by a factor of 10

If you're comparing dry weights to wet yield and cubes or most mushrooms are 90% water...

That would make 100% impossible to obtain, and that makes sense because you can't turn the entire dry weight of substrate into dry mushroom weight.


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