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geokills
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Registered: 05/08/01
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Re: Cryptocurrency: A Discussion on Bitcoin, Ethereum and Related Projects [Re: Northerner]
#27031770 - 11/10/20 02:40 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Northerner said: All your examples of speculation have real world implications. That is investing. The money actually does something. Bitcoin does not.
"Real world implications" sounds broadly vague. The example I provided of buying a dividend paying stock doesn't have any more of a real world implication that buying bitcoin, unless you are buying directly through a secondary issuance by the company (in which case you are financing them). In practice, the vast majority of retail stock trading is done on a secondary market that doesn't have any direct affect on the underlying company or its ability to conduct business.
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Like I said I do like the implications of crypto. Inflation is driven by people wanting more money and the government trying to balance the needs of people with the supply so there isn't either too much money or too little. And you would take that check away?
The ability of our central banks to leverage economies into vast amounts of overspending, thereby devaluing the currency at an ever quicker clip, is not what I would call a "check". I can recognize that an elastic money supply sounds good in theory, but in practice no government has been able to responsibly manage it over a long enough period of time, as is being made clear with our modern economies today.

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The real reason billionaires like Bitcoin is greed. If they amass enough of it they can do away with these controls that serve public interest and rake in even more billions. What do you think billionaires do with their lives? What is their primary motivation? Are they trying to be remembered for helping children? Maybe making the world a better place? Revolutionising healthcare to reduce suffering? No. They are out to fuck anyone who gets in their way so they can make their obscene piles of cash even bigger. Anything billionaires want is by default bad for the rest of us.
I don't buy it. Yes, extreme greed exists. But there is nothing inherently wrong with taking advantage of the capitalist system that we are a part of. Yes, I'm sure there are plenty of asshole billionaires out there, just as I'm certain there are plenty of asshole poor people, just as there are greedy selfish assholes among every financial class between the two extremes. On the other hand, there are also plenty of billionaires who recognize their windfall and want to promote a healthier use of their extreme fortune. See The Giving Pledge.
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Gold is a physical tangible thing that has many applications from jewellery to electronics to trading. It doesn't rust and it got excellent properties. It's a marvel of nature.
And bitcoin is a marvel of technology. The first digital currency to avoid the double-spend problem and cannot be manipulated at its core through inflation or confiscation. Call it the red pill if you like, but it sounds like you are letting your jaded feelings contribute to a mistrust of what has the potential to be the greatest financial equalizer in the history of humanity.
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Northerner
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Re: Cryptocurrency: A Discussion on Bitcoin, Ethereum and Related Projects [Re: geokills]
#27031926 - 11/10/20 04:18 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I see you are a Bitcoin proponent, that's fine man. Let's not go around in circles here.
I do not think Bitcoin is going to have a happy ending for anyone but the megarich. I also do not see the merit in people who hoard more cash than they could spend in many lifetimes, then give a fig leaf to pretend they care about everyone else. Eg: If Benzos turned around and donated half a billion to charity now it would not undo the damage he has done.
People like Benzos and other mega rich will be the shot callers in a world where speculation of currency worth determines its value. How you gonna vote out those motherfuckers when they control your liquid value if everything goes the Bitcoin dream?
Nothing inherently wrong with a tiny percentage of people taking all the cash for themselves and leveraging it to fiscally enslave the vast majority? What?
I do not consider Bitcoin a marvel. It's just code. Other cryptos do it much better even. It doesn't have anything more about it than being the first.
All that said I do like the idea if cryptocurrency, I said it before, but when we take an objective look at what is becoming of Bitcoin, who the players are and their objectives it's highly alarming.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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geokills
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Re: Cryptocurrency: A Discussion on Bitcoin, Ethereum and Related Projects [Re: geokills] 1
#27032055 - 11/10/20 05:51 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ethereum looking like it wants to break out right here right now, moving above $460 on volume. Potential resistance @ $470. We are hugging the upper bollinger band and the bands are pretty wide, so honestly I would expect to see more sideways action before a sustainable move higher... But this is crypto. A break above the 52 week high @ $490 is blue sky territory, with minimal practical resistance after that. Heady days are here again.
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Northerner
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Re: Cryptocurrency: A Discussion on Bitcoin, Ethereum and Related Projects [Re: geokills] 1
#27032160 - 11/10/20 07:02 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's gonna be a big rush until around Christmas or early new year again, then all bets are off. Thats my prediction.
It's happened just like it's happening now twice before. Will be interesting to see if it plays out the same or if people don't cash in/out and it pops again.
There's many more big players now so it might be a little less volatile. But if it moves to much they will dump and run causing a major rout.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Cryptocurrency: A Discussion on Bitcoin, Ethereum and Related Projects [Re: geokills]
#27034572 - 11/12/20 05:34 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
geokills said:
On energy and carbon footprints, the energy problem isn't particularly a bitcoin problem, as all global industries have an incentive to move toward renewable energy sources.
You're underestimating this, I think because of nostalgia. I know you love that coin to Bits but its a Btc where it comes to energy consumption.
Other, more modern protocols not just have minute energy consumption per transaction volume in comparison, but also have a way larger trades per second capability and scalability.
Gold you dig up, and you vault. It doesnt require multiple nuclear plants worth of energy continuously just to be, while other protocols are that much more energy and resource efficient.
BTC is only good because of several fundamentals that can be recreated in a much more energetically and resource favorable package.
Bitcoin is the best crypto to take a chance on now, but ONLY "because everybody else is doing it". The same goes for fossil fuels. It is wasteful, it is polluting, and unlike the energy crisis, which BTC gratuitously contributes to, there IS a much greener alternative right of the shelf. If Btc gets converted 1:1 to a clone with the exact same trade fundamentals and everybody makes the 1:1 transition, the problem is solved and you got the same fantastic assets.
My friend: Bitcoin put solar panels on your house. I didnt see you put a coal plant there. Too many coal plants are running to keep Btc going and the people downwind breathe the dust - and this can be completely solved while retaining the fantastuic asset characteristics.
No one needs Bitcoin to be bitcoin. They just need the same asset fundamentals and market.
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I like the idea of crypto, but Bitcoin is a dinosaur that was made before all the implications were fully understood. It will always be the 1.5 ton, 2 seater sedan with a top speed of 40 miles an hour, getting half a mile per gallon and leaving a path of acrid black smoke in it's wake.
Along with a trail of gasoline from the tailpipe and oil from the engine and brakes.
Btc is our darling but we need to get with the times and give Mr Satoshi his overdue retirement.
If your tap leaks and you cant fix it you replace the tap to save on water.
Loud and clear:
NEW: Study reveals Bitcoin’s electricity consumption is underestimated and finds the network “represents close to half of the current global data centre electricity use” (August 2020).
Let that sink in people.
Its time old Satoshi-San hands the reins of the family business to ambitious and smart Satoshi-Kun and retires.
Its fine to be conservative with precious metals, but with crypto every now and then the community needs to get with the times because there will never be a structurally better goldb but structurally better cryptos are churned out every month or so.
We can even retain the name and logo by rechristening the current Btc "Old Bitcoin" and thge new protocol simply "Bitcoin" to take full advantage of the name branding.
January 2019: MIT researchers have developed a new cryptocurrency that drastically reduces the data users need to join the network and verify transactions — by up to 99 percent compared to today’s popular cryptocurrencies. This means a much more scalable network.
Almost 2 years ago, no doubt outdone by now. 100x more efficient than bitcoin, thats lighting your house with LED or candles.
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eLeSDenes
Mycelium Expander




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Re: Cryptocurrency: A Discussion on Bitcoin, Ethereum and Related Projects [Re: Asante] 2
#27034590 - 11/12/20 06:11 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Are you guys so anti-btc because you missed the train and only have full bags of XRP? 
Yes btc might be resourceful intensive to mine, but so is gold and running banks. I understand that there are alts with better and newer solutions, but most of them are just hype and quite frankly, the average people don’t give shit about it. You know at the end of the day, when I want to park my money somewhere, I would want something which been around for long enough and I know for a fact that it is secure and unhackable and will be around in 10-20 years. I also love some of the alts and I think that there are a few which have a large chance to be successful and do 10x-100x but I still have 85% of my portfolio in btc
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Gypsy Boy
Redeemer



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Re: Cryptocurrency: A Discussion on Bitcoin, Ethereum and Related Projects [Re: eLeSDenes]
#27034788 - 11/12/20 08:34 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think Asante said it all
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Cryptocurrency: A Discussion on Bitcoin, Ethereum and Related Projects [Re: eLeSDenes]
#27034826 - 11/12/20 09:01 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
eLeSDenes said:
Yes btc might be resourceful intensive to mine, but so is gold and running banks.
It need not be
NEW: Study reveals Bitcoin’s electricity consumption is underestimated and finds the network “represents close to half of the current global data centre electricity use” (August 2020).
tl;dr - bitcoin uses as much data center power as THE WHOLE INTERNET and there are alternatives which use 100x less power and resources.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Gypsy Boy
Redeemer



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Re: Cryptocurrency: A Discussion on Bitcoin, Ethereum and Related Projects [Re: Asante]
#27034836 - 11/12/20 09:09 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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eLeSDenes
Mycelium Expander




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Re: Cryptocurrency: A Discussion on Bitcoin, Ethereum and Related Projects [Re: Asante]
#27034841 - 11/12/20 09:14 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Okay, then instead of arguing about btc, please suggest alternatives. Which coin do you think has good value and why?
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Gypsy Boy
Redeemer



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Re: Cryptocurrency: A Discussion on Bitcoin, Ethereum and Related Projects [Re: eLeSDenes]
#27034865 - 11/12/20 09:28 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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That would be tellin' eh
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ChemicalSpark

Registered: 10/08/15
Posts: 2,057
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Re: Cryptocurrency: A Discussion on Bitcoin, Ethereum and Related Projects [Re: Gypsy Boy]
#27037789 - 11/13/20 09:27 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Anyone have experience with a service like “ledn”? They seem sort of like a savings account for your bitcoin that offers ~6% APY. Sounds kind of nice.
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eLeSDenes
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Re: Cryptocurrency: A Discussion on Bitcoin, Ethereum and Related Projects [Re: ChemicalSpark] 2
#27038177 - 11/14/20 04:24 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I would be very careful giving out my btc anywhere where I can't ensure its safety. There are lots of coins you can stake with roughly 5-6% gain a year. You can also try lending btc on binance, which only gives you something like 3% but it's a safe option
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Gypsy Boy
Redeemer



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Re: Cryptocurrency: A Discussion on Bitcoin, Ethereum and Related Projects [Re: eLeSDenes]
#27041741 - 11/16/20 07:36 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Whats the vaccine development does for crypto??
What does Shroomery science division has to say? Normal markets have been rising last few days yet crypto was up and down, mostly un affected. I think in the long term it is about time to bag as much coins as you can.. maybe give it another month, while vacine is distributed and everyones healed, then sky is the limit this will take off like a rocket.
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chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum



Registered: 03/16/17
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Re: Cryptocurrency: A Discussion on Bitcoin, Ethereum and Related Projects [Re: eLeSDenes]
#27041870 - 11/16/20 08:59 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
eLeSDenes said: Okay, then instead of arguing about btc, please suggest alternatives. Which coin do you think has good value and why?
Why not just put your money into an index fund that trades in cryptocurrency?
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eLeSDenes
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Re: Cryptocurrency: A Discussion on Bitcoin, Ethereum and Related Projects [Re: chibiabos]
#27041872 - 11/16/20 09:00 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I am just trying to have discussion, I am already invested in btc
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Ganja420Boy
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Re: Cryptocurrency: A Discussion on Bitcoin, Ethereum and Related Projects [Re: eLeSDenes]
#27042162 - 11/16/20 12:09 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Does anyone know where I can exchange ethereum classic to BTC?
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eLeSDenes
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Re: Cryptocurrency: A Discussion on Bitcoin, Ethereum and Related Projects [Re: Ganja420Boy]
#27042167 - 11/16/20 12:12 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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binance?
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




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Re: Cryptocurrency: A Discussion on Bitcoin, Ethereum and Related Projects [Re: Ganja420Boy]
#27042198 - 11/16/20 12:44 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Im pretty sure Coinbase supports ETH Classic.
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NipFantasy
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Re: Cryptocurrency: A Discussion on Bitcoin, Ethereum and Related Projects [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 1
#27043236 - 11/17/20 03:09 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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That's volatility, you'll never know when it will go up and how long, and when it will go down.
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