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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Debate and discussion on the internet.
#27032011 - 11/10/20 05:19 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think it's a very poor substitute for the real life thing. It misses out on a lot of nuances and the ability to quickly reformulate and concede or agree to opinions.
I think it's often pretty unhealthy and I see this all over the internet. You are just getting a snap shot of something someone said, like a string of quotients. It makes it easier to jjust tunnel vision on certain points.
Maybe the internet is the harbinger of the apocalypse. 
Or maybe the abundance of information and opinions will somehow be our salvation. 
Or it could be just one more artifact in the string of loosely arranged failures we call history. 
Get your inner prophet out if you feel like it. And tell me, what would you pick?
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Hikeadellic
Fungi Fan



Registered: 08/31/20
Posts: 1,227
Loc: Appalachian Trail
Last seen: 12 days, 13 hours
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Re: Debate and discussion on the internet. [Re: Grapefruit] 1
#27032016 - 11/10/20 05:24 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have been "living" in front of a computer screen for at least 8 hours a day since August. It is god awful. Internet is only good for stuff like wikipedia and learning how to grow mushrooms
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,703
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Re: Debate and discussion on the internet. [Re: Grapefruit]
#27032037 - 11/10/20 05:42 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I guess we have progressed from cave painting to emojis with a bit of human sacrifice in the middle, but I do not know if we are looping or not. I guess if the human sacrifices get going again, it's done.
Toss another virgin into cyberspace - next!
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_ π§ _
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Debate and discussion on the internet. [Re: Hikeadellic]
#27032112 - 11/10/20 06:34 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hikeadellic said: I have been "living" in front of a computer screen for at least 8 hours a day since August. It is god awful. Internet is only good for stuff like wikipedia and learning how to grow mushrooms
Guess the best thing to do is detach yourself from the whole mess unless you've got the energy to get out there and really be productive. I know I don't. That's a load off my mind in a way because I know I don't have to stress about the social or personal pressure to be productive.
I think it can screw with you too if you put too much energy into something that's not really coming from the heart. Gotta keep the balance.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Hikeadellic
Fungi Fan



Registered: 08/31/20
Posts: 1,227
Loc: Appalachian Trail
Last seen: 12 days, 13 hours
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Re: Debate and discussion on the internet. [Re: Grapefruit] 1
#27032267 - 11/10/20 08:19 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I try to be productive, I enjoy being productive. But I just want to get away from the 24/7 eyes on screen. I love socializing and interacting with people, being apart of different communities and friend groups. Smile at other people walking down the street. Its hard to do so now. I try to when I can but I'm reaching much less people.
I'm thinking about going somewhere far away from "here" just to gain some fucking sanity
I need to have a life based around the natural inter-person connection reward systems that evolution has created over thousands of years more then a life based around computer programs that stimulate these reward systems to generate profit.
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teknix
πβπ
’ππ
π°π‘ πΌπ⨻



Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: Debate and discussion on the internet. [Re: Hikeadellic]
#27032275 - 11/10/20 08:23 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Perhaps, but real debates are prepared in advance, points, counterpoints, rebuttals are all anticipated, to the best of their ability. A random argument about a random topic on the street in going to be more superficial than a debate on a specific topic consisting of experts that prepared in advance.
Experts are generally going to know the arguments against their position before it even occurs.
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Hikeadellic
Fungi Fan



Registered: 08/31/20
Posts: 1,227
Loc: Appalachian Trail
Last seen: 12 days, 13 hours
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Re: Debate and discussion on the internet. [Re: teknix]
#27032371 - 11/10/20 09:59 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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You are right! The internet does not do justice to conversation. In person conversations between interesting people are genuine and real.
The news should not be a 24/7 cycle that it is now. Years ago news only happened on TV one or two hours a day. Modern news reduces complicated topics to 10 second soundbites. This is why we as a society need in person conversation. This is also why Joe Rogan makes millions of dollars just having in depth conversations with people
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Debate and discussion on the internet. [Re: teknix] 1
#27032594 - 11/11/20 12:53 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said: Perhaps, but real debates are prepared in advance, points, counterpoints, rebuttals are all anticipated, to the best of their ability. A random argument about a random topic on the street in going to be more superficial than a debate on a specific topic consisting of experts that prepared in advance.
Experts are generally going to know the arguments against their position before it even occurs.
That's one area where you and I might disagree. I think a series of cordial debates and discussion between two friend had over a day spent relaxing can get much deeper into truth than anything pre rehearsed. The "real" kind of debate you mention is often mostly for the audience, or for practicing to proselytise to one. Therefore it is the more superficial of the two. I think two good friends of good temperement can dig far deeper into a matter given time and willingness. I would certainly wish that it happened more often without people getting defensive about beliefs or aggressive with them.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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thealienthatategod
retrovertigo


Registered: 10/10/17
Posts: 2,658
Last seen: 2 days, 16 hours
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Re: Debate and discussion on the internet. [Re: Grapefruit] 1
#27032865 - 11/11/20 06:43 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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the debate/discussion function of the internet depends on how the user decides to utilize the tool. if someone uses it to sharpen their mind, then their mind will be sharpened. if itβs used for the sake of being purposefully argumentative and to ruffle feathers, then that person will probably end up ruffling their own feathers. if itβs used to seek out meaningful intellectual connections that may be are not being fulfilled in real life, then those virtual connections can be found to stimualte an intellectual mind as it desires.
how many people do you have in your real life social circle that you can have a deep and meaningful spiritual or intellectual or philosophical conversation with?
the internet allows for access to billions of people, and allows for the opportunity to engage with minds that someone might not have had the chance of sharing a thought or engaging with. meaningful connections can be made if thatβs how the user makes use of the tool. i donβt believe a vast majority of the billions of people on the internet use it in this way. for the most part, the internet is probably using them! like most technology, it can potentially cut both ways.
all humans possess an internet connection to each other, without having a screen in front of them, but most seem to have forgotten how to access this universal connection, so the internet as you know it has become a surrogate.
i imagine for young people under 30 or so, the internet is different because it has saturatured their entire existance, where those that are older have the wonderful experience of remembering what the world was like before the internet saturatured everything, for better and for worse.
i wonder what ideas would have never happened if the internet didnβt exist?
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Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc:
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The reports seem to indicate that high doses of social media will have negative tendencies. Teenage girl suicide rates soared at the same time of social media introduction. They were at the front lines I guess.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Debate and discussion on the internet. [Re: Grapefruit]
#27034099 - 11/11/20 07:46 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Most importantly, real life conversations allows one to physically slap the other conversee when he says something retarded.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,945
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Re: Debate and discussion on the internet. [Re: Grapefruit] 1
#27034333 - 11/11/20 11:17 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think debates and discussion online are respectable, informative and more diligent and substantive than in person debates at times.
Sometimes complex topics require rehashing of words and simplifications in laymen terms.
Often in debates people make shifty points and use weasel words to dodge questions and deflect ideas without sudly substantive responses. Online there's a history of the debate and there's no escaping your own words.
In my view, online debates have a higher capability for responsibility.
Sometimes we need more time to make a stronger response, because often there is so much information it's hard to catch everything, and if someone is throwing a lot of spaghetti at the wall, it's important to respond to all of their points so that none of their shit sticks.
Your words count more online imo.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,829
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Re: Debate and discussion on the internet. [Re: Grapefruit]
#27046692 - 11/19/20 02:15 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grapefruit said: I think it's a very poor substitute for the real life thing. It misses out on a lot of nuances and the ability to quickly reformulate and concede or agree to opinions....
. Probably depends on both who one's friends are, their motivations, on the communication skills of all involved, and on whether the individuals are actually capable of being in touch with their own feelings and open to learning from others, if such qualities are valued by the participants. . Given all these variables, (which seem to me of primary importance and to vary greatly among people) I wouldn't personally venture to generalize about the media used whether it be: net, person to person, or phone, or email, or mail.
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 1 month, 15 days
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Re: Debate and discussion on the internet. [Re: Grapefruit]
#27046720 - 11/19/20 03:10 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Debate in general is USUALLY futile.
Not always. Most often it is, though.
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of oneβs ignorance." β Confucius
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,829
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Re: Debate and discussion on the internet. [Re: laughingdog]
#27047800 - 11/19/20 05:56 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
laughingdog said:
Quote:
Grapefruit said: I think it's a very poor substitute for the real life thing. It misses out on a lot of nuances and the ability to quickly reformulate and concede or agree to opinions....
. Probably depends on both who one's friends are, their motivations, on the communication skills of all involved, and on whether the individuals are actually capable of being in touch with their own feelings and open to learning from others, [and whether] such qualities are valued by the participants. . Given all these variables, (which seem to me of primary importance and to vary greatly among people) I wouldn't personally venture to generalize about the media used whether it be: net, person to person, or phone, or email, or mail.
. However the internet "attracts" those who are not as capable of being in touch with their own feelings and being generally open and revealing. So these factors support your view Grapefruit, as regards intimacy, that the net will be found to be more about superficial content, argument, and simply the desire for attention and praise.
. I suppose if we understand its limitations, disappointment will be less.
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 1 month, 15 days
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Re: Debate and discussion on the internet. [Re: laughingdog]
#27048245 - 11/20/20 12:37 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
laughingdog said:
Quote:
laughingdog said:
Quote:
Grapefruit said: I think it's a very poor substitute for the real life thing. It misses out on a lot of nuances and the ability to quickly reformulate and concede or agree to opinions....
. Probably depends on both who one's friends are, their motivations, on the communication skills of all involved, and on whether the individuals are actually capable of being in touch with their own feelings and open to learning from others, [and whether] such qualities are valued by the participants. . Given all these variables, (which seem to me of primary importance and to vary greatly among people) I wouldn't personally venture to generalize about the media used whether it be: net, person to person, or phone, or email, or mail.
. However the internet "attracts" those who are not as capable of being in touch with their own feelings and being generally open and revealing. So these factors support your view Grapefruit, as regards intimacy, that the net will be found to be more about superficial content, argument, and simply the desire for attention and praise.
. I suppose if we understand its limitations, disappointment will be less.
Well said and agreed.
The other problem is both parties actually agreeing on limitations without feeling like doing so concedes their argument/point, lol.
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of oneβs ignorance." β Confucius
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,703
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Re: Debate and discussion on the internet. [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#27048371 - 11/20/20 05:14 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I like that you can log in and log out
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_ π§ _
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Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc:
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Re: Debate and discussion on the internet. [Re: redgreenvines]
#27048502 - 11/20/20 08:03 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I heard itβs a good idea to steel man the others pitch in order to take the most pleasure when you bring it down. And also to not misrepresent them so the idea is to overcompensate. Iβm not favor of steel manning or straw manning. An mutually agreeable accurate representation of the other is sufficient.
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Debate and discussion on the internet. [Re: redgreenvines]
#27048856 - 11/20/20 12:09 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: I like that you can log in and log out
Yeah I kinda think debate doesn't work at all on the internet. Better to just say your piece and then go get lost.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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lostintimenspc
Stranger
Registered: 03/13/20
Posts: 222
Last seen: 8 days, 59 seconds
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Re: Debate and discussion on the internet. [Re: Grapefruit]
#27049502 - 11/20/20 07:48 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't think it works, but socially speaking Shroomery is a good place for me, just seeing what other intellectuals through to the everyday stoners think and feel.
If there was a Shroomery convention we'd have some seriously interesting people rock up.
A good rule of thumb is to just be positive on the internet. Anything negative is just going to result in meaningless content.
-------------------- LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life' Your life, your call.
Edited by lostintimenspc (11/20/20 08:37 PM)
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