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OfflineBlue Helix
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Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow)
    #27030879 - 11/09/20 10:44 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I am so happy to hear the news!  I posted on another thread that my goal BE for a cubensis grow was 100% to 150%.  Almost instantly a very highly trusted moderator set me straight and said that most growers get that BE the first flush and that half of all growers today get 200% BE.    In good faith, I assumed that this moderator said this to help inform me that I'm super rusty (a bad grower I guess, not that I care much).

Can the 50% of growers that have pulled 200% BE and took actual measurements with their scale, let me know your thread?  I want to see what improvements growing is allowing such a large percentage of high-BE grows.  I have some new popular things written down to try, but I'm looking for patterns, not one shot grows, since there is a lot of ideas out there.

Thank you, guys!


Edited by Blue Helix (11/09/20 11:05 PM)


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27030911 - 11/09/20 11:29 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

:whathesaid:

:begger:


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: ModularMind]
    #27030940 - 11/10/20 12:27 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Are you cloning or starting from spores?


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Holybullshit]
    #27030954 - 11/10/20 12:43 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Holybullshit said:
Are you cloning or starting from spores?




Unfortunately, I am doing a multi-spore (MS) grow, and I am told that clone grows are better.  But my understanding is that even with MS grows, that people are pulling 150 to 200% all the time nowadays, which sounds pretty amazing.

I really don't know what my BE is for cubes (didn't really bother with it before since the MS flushes were very dense), but I imagine that the right clone will outperform a MS grow at least some.  The improvement factor to actual yield, though, I couldn't find.  I just kept seeing first flush pictures which is really only half the story.


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OfflineInthepit
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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: ModularMind]
    #27031044 - 11/10/20 04:10 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ModularMind said:
:whathesaid:
:begger:




                                   

And I need to understand how to get BE.
Like: from this thread

First flush wet = Around 300g ea box...4 boxes from LAGM 2020
Oats = 1 Kg (2 qrts), 500g Coir

Do you include 500g coir?

"Your BE = (wet fruit weight)/(dry in substrate) * 100 ="

Grain is usually 50% dry,
The oats I have seem really dry to me, plus diatomaceous earth added

grain 2 quarts dry = 1000g x .50  = 500g

Total sub dry = 500g grain + 500g coir = 1000g substrate

So... wet fruit 1200g / sub 1000g x 100 = 120%  correct?

        :popcorn:


--------------------
:sporedrop: GLOSSARY  :sporedrop: ACROMYMS!   :sporedrop: GETTING STARTED :sporedrop:


Edited by Inthepit (11/10/20 07:32 AM)


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Inthepit] * 1
    #27031068 - 11/10/20 05:00 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)



Typical PESA tub

4x spawn jars originally 220g dry oats each
880g

1x650 coir brick

1530g total dry ingredients

First flush yield is usually 6-7oz dry lets low-ball and use 90% water content for cubes

6*26=168*10=
1680wet/1530dry ingredients=

Over 100% BE first flush. Usually they go three flushes easily going over 200%

Look through pastys posts i think hes done BE calculations in a few posts.


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27031069 - 11/10/20 05:05 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)



3q spawn in smaller tub with 1 brick

660+650=
1310dry stuff

1851 first flush wet

141% first harvest

Pretty sure MS too


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #27031473 - 11/10/20 11:33 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Thank you for everyone who responded here.  And I've gotten a few private responses.  As I knew was the case, this is well within the realm of possibility for experienced growers, and many are using clones but not all.  It is not in the realm of normal for "the majority" of average growers, and I think saying that is disingenuous. 

As for the clone question: I think MS grows perform about 75% as well from what I'm reading, which sounds about right.  In other words, it's not the holy grail of all mushrooms, but it does make a difference.  For the vast majority of people, a clone is not going to do much for you.  But for those who are getting the higher yields who do have a lot of experience, a clone can make a pretty big difference, but not for most people on this site.

So, yeah, things are just like I thought.  These higher yields are something that almost anyone can achieve with some practice, but it's not an average by any means.  Saying that is kind of like a professional baseball player showing up at a little league game and talking about how easy it is to hit them out of the park.  To him, it IS easy to knock them out of the park, not so much for the teenagers playing the game.

Anyway, I have some things to try myself.  I'd like to give the coco coir with oatmeal a try since it's worked so well for bodhisatta and his protégé and my friend jcm4620.  It sounds pretty incredible.  I really like that it uses coco coir because you can get the ingredients to the substrate on the cheap.


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27031478 - 11/10/20 11:35 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:


3q spawn in smaller tub with 1 brick

660+650=
1310dry stuff

1851 first flush wet

141% first harvest

Pretty sure MS too




Incredible grow!  Fantastic density there!  And that is a MS?  My God, man, why bother with a clone then!?


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27031483 - 11/10/20 11:41 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

200%+ club

Filthy few...
Hahahaha...
Maybe one day I'll get there...

Awesome tubs bod..
Those fruits are crammed in there tight dawg🤘🏻


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Inthepit]
    #27031493 - 11/10/20 11:45 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Inthepit said:
Quote:

ModularMind said:
:whathesaid:
:begger:




                                   

And I need to understand how to get BE.
Like: from this thread

First flush wet = Around 300g ea box...4 boxes from LAGM 2020
Oats = 1 Kg (2 qrts), 500g Coir

Do you include 500g coir?

"Your BE = (wet fruit weight)/(dry in substrate) * 100 ="

Grain is usually 50% dry,
The oats I have seem really dry to me, plus diatomaceous earth added

grain 2 quarts dry = 1000g x .50  = 500g

Total sub dry = 500g grain + 500g coir = 1000g substrate

So... wet fruit 1200g / sub 1000g x 100 = 120%  correct?

        :popcorn:




The entire dry ingredients are usually included in a normal BE calculation.  Coco coir is a nutritive addition as you can see the mycelium attack it like food, so it definitely must be included.  One could argue I suppose that vermiculite--if you use it--doesn't have to be included as a dry ingredient, but I always do.  I don't think you should leave anything out. 

As others have pointed out, though, BE isn't really a very good measurement to cover the performance of such a wide range of substrates and species.  It was designed for a very specific purpose: it allows button mushroom farmers (i.e. non-actives) to discuss the merits of various techniques and substrate additions.  There were other better measurements that could have been used for grows like the ones here, but there is no agreement about it.  The closest we have to an agreement are first-flush pictures, which actually are probably about as good as BE given how wildly divergent the grow scene here actually is.  I mean here we don't even agree when to pick the damned mushrooms.  You got folks like Bodhisatta showing killer grows picking before the veil even stretches much less breaks in some grows but way later in others.  How can you agree what a good BE is if you cannot even agree at the harvest development stage?  You really cannot.


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Inthepit]
    #27031504 - 11/10/20 11:52 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Inthepit said:
Quote:

ModularMind said:
:whathesaid:
:begger:




                                   

And I need to understand how to get BE.
Like: from this thread

First flush wet = Around 300g ea box...4 boxes from LAGM 2020
Oats = 1 Kg (2 qrts), 500g Coir

Do you include 500g coir?

"Your BE = (wet fruit weight)/(dry in substrate) * 100 ="

Grain is usually 50% dry,
The oats I have seem really dry to me, plus diatomaceous earth added

grain 2 quarts dry = 1000g x .50  = 500g

Total sub dry = 500g grain + 500g coir = 1000g substrate

So... wet fruit 1200g / sub 1000g x 100 = 120%  correct?

        :popcorn:




About the oatmeal, you shouldn't be measuring wet anything and going backward to try to determine the dry weight.  I did that for you because you didn't have the dry weights, but it doesn't apply to oatmeal.  Oatmeal isn't even a proper grain the way it's sold in stores.  It's chipped or usually steam rolled.  You can't do what I did with oatmeal, so if that is what it was, forget everything I did.  I didn't know that was the grain we are talking about.  Grains like millet or rye are roughly 50% water when saturated, but even that is kind of hocus pocus.  If you want to find your BE, measure all the dry ingredients of your substrate first and don't go backward trying to determine the dry weight from wet at all.


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Inthepit]
    #27031514 - 11/10/20 12:00 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Inthepit said:

        :popcorn:




By the way, in my specific case, you CAN go backwards from wet to dry substrate easily.  That is because I use a specific water content of 65% in my substrate (within 1%).  I've measured everything out to hit that specific water content.  That water content applies to the old school substrate of manure with a very small additions vermiculite and grain, though.  It is not set in stone for all substrates, and on this site, the substrates are all over the map in terms of water content.


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27031518 - 11/10/20 12:03 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

every grower should get 10 dry oz average in 2 flushes w 5 qts of spawn:shrug:


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http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17277772

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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: tripdawg420]
    #27031546 - 11/10/20 12:23 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

tripdawg420 said:
every grower should get 10 dry oz average in 2 flushes w 5 qts of spawn:shrug:




Hey, tripdawg420, could you do me a big favor?  I keep reading about these "quarts of spawn".  Can you possibly measure the weight of the dry grains you use for a quart of spawn?  A quart of spawn doesn't mean much to someone who doesn't use spawn like me.  As you know, I use LC direct to bulk.  I used to use spawn a long time ago, but it didn't find all the extra work of making it worth my time once I started using LC techniques.


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OfflineInthepit
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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27031739 - 11/10/20 02:24 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Thank you Blue Helix for your reply and time!  :hatsoff:

Quote:

Blue Helix said:
Quote:

Inthepit said:


                             

First flush wet = Around 300g ea box...4 boxes from LAGM 2020

1 Kg (2 qrts) Race Horse Oats to make 4 jars spawn, triple cleansed, whole oats.

500g Coir



"Your BE = (wet fruit weight)/(dry in substrate) * 100 ="

Grain is usually 50% dry, So for my Race Horse Oats I don't need the 50% calculation?
The oats I have seem really dry to me, plus diatomaceous earth added

grain 2 quarts dry = 1000g x .50  = 500g

Total sub dry = 500g grain + 500g coir = 1000g substrate

So... wet fruit 1200g / sub 1000g x 100 = 120%  correct?

        :popcorn:




About the oatmeal, you shouldn't be measuring wet anything and going backward to try to determine the dry weight.  I did that for you because you didn't have the dry weights, but it doesn't apply to oatmeal.  Oatmeal isn't even a proper grain the way it's sold in stores.  It's chipped or usually steam rolled.  You can't do what I did with oatmeal, so if that is what it was, forget everything I did.  I didn't know that was the grain we are talking about.  Grains like millet or rye are roughly 50% water when saturated, but even that is kind of hocus pocus.  If you want to find your BE, measure all the dry ingredients of your substrate first and don't go backward trying to determine the dry weight from wet at all.




So...I'm not: using oatmeal, wet, or going backwards. So my question is
does that mean the 50% of the dry oat computation is unnecessary?

Which means:
1000g dry Race Horse Oats + 500g Coir = 1500g substrate

First flush for 4 shoeboxes wet 1200g

(1200g fruit / 1500g substrate ) x 100 =  80% BE
Sounds more like my grow for a noob!

thanks again!


Edited by Inthepit (11/10/20 02:34 PM)


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Inthepit]
    #27031777 - 11/10/20 02:43 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe average grower is disingenuous. Average of my peers. People i see here regularly that have got a good grip on growing. To say average for all range of growers I can agree is off the mark


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27031800 - 11/10/20 02:56 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Maybe average grower is disingenuous. Average of my peers. People i see here regularly that have got a good grip on growing. To say average for all range of growers I can agree is off the mark




The “what’s wrong with my kit people” ruin it for the whole class.


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Inthepit]
    #27031814 - 11/10/20 03:11 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Inthepit said:
Thank you Blue Helix for your reply and time!  :hatsoff:

So...I'm not: using oatmeal, wet, or going backwards. So my question is
does that mean the 50% of the dry oat computation is unnecessary?

Which means:
1000g dry Race Horse Oats + 500g Coir = 1500g substrate

First flush for 4 shoeboxes wet 1200g

(1200g fruit / 1500g substrate ) x 100 =  80% BE
Sounds more like my grow for a noob!

thanks again!




That is exactly what it means, and your adjustment is right.  Sorry about the oatmeal comment.  I didn't know that you meant dry whole oats like for horses.  I use millet or rye myself.

I personally think 80% BE for a noob is pretty damned good.  I don't think I got that, but back then we used stone tools, lived in caves, and used clay pots over a fire for our sterilization.


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27031894 - 11/10/20 04:04 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I use 125 g of dry rye per pint jar.

And then 75 g of dry coir per shoebox. Two pints of spawn per shoebox gives total dry weight of 325 g.

Somewhat amazingly, my very first shoebox harvests were 350+ g wet (though I used spent grain from brewing then rather than rye). So at least one newbie managed to hit 100+% on first flush. And did it using an instant pot!

Of course repeatability has not been great, average is substantially lower once subsequent grows are taken into account.


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: dfwerydfhg]
    #27031985 - 11/10/20 04:59 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Wow, that looks like 1 to 3.33 spawn


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Inthepit]
    #27032008 - 11/10/20 05:18 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Isn't spawn ratio generally by volume rather than weight? So once the coir was expanded to field capacity, the ratio was more likely in line with normal ratios.

Your example was 1000g oats to 500g coir. So 1 to 2 spawn, but that doesn't seem to be how it is usually presented.

Or did sarcasm just fly over my head again?

Edit: spellling


--------------------
LAGM 2.024
Stoned Gummys tek (Gummies from sclerotia or mushrooms) *Not just for stones any more
How to succeed in mycology (and life) - know nothing, read everything, try something, and accept advice.
Don't Panic




Edited by ReverendMyc (11/10/20 05:37 PM)


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27032022 - 11/10/20 05:32 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Blue Helix said:

  I'd like to give the coco coir with oatmeal a try since it's worked so well for bodhisatta and his protégé and my friend jcm4620.  It sounds pretty incredible.  I really like that it uses coco coir because you can get the ingredients to the substrate on the cheap.




He's not talking about oatmeal, they mean whole oats for horses. Oats are the cereal grain they've chosen for grain spawn.


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 3
    #27032050 - 11/10/20 05:49 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Accidentally uses oatmeal. Grows cement


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: ReverendMyc]
    #27032058 - 11/10/20 05:52 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Ya that calculation doesn't seem to work.

So for mine it works out 1000g (2 qrts) of oats makes 4 jars @ .75 or less.
A few weeks later 500g coir makes 5 qrt jars.

So I spawn 1 myc jar to one coir jar, mix, level, tamp the edges, and top with some coir per shoebox.


--------------------
:sporedrop: GLOSSARY  :sporedrop: ACROMYMS!   :sporedrop: GETTING STARTED :sporedrop:


Edited by Inthepit (11/10/20 06:01 PM)


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27032154 - 11/10/20 06:54 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Accidentally uses oatmeal. Grows cement






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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #27032358 - 11/10/20 09:45 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Accidentally uses oatmeal. Grows cement




Yeah, I know that.  I talked to his protégé jcm4620 or more specifically he called me to tell me of my horrid mistake - not that I was actually going to do that.  I wouldn't because that is too stupid for even me (but a lot of pop stuff on this site qualifies in the stupid department so you never know what you'll read). 

Before I do anything, I usually make sure it's the same stuff that is in the growing literature since like a hundred years ago.  Like what I'm writing about here (the use of LCs) is as old as the hills, and basically nothing here is novel.  The only part that is novel is that I'm brining it up in a decently written grow log (well before it was hijacked) when it isn't fashionable. 

So it sounds like are spawning coco coir and, instead of keeping conditions tight, we throw it all in a big tub since and monitoring the "surface conditions" (whatever that means; it was jcm4620's descriptive of it) since it's kind of well-known that cubensis grows like mad no matter how much you abuse your grow as long as it doesn't flat dry out or drown.

What I liked about the technique--and the reason I want to try it--was simply that despite all the abuse it produces very high yield I read.  That means it is easier, and I know other people who care about that a lot. 

But I'm starting to remember now why I stopped growing cubes 15 years ago - no challenge.  Basically there are no hard rules since it's a weed mushroom.


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27032381 - 11/10/20 10:04 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Pretty much exactly what you just said. Throw spawn into some coir and as long as you don't breathe too hard out of your mouth you'll get mushrooms. Except that it's only that easy after you become accustomed to failure, because anything new comes with a learning curve. Starting something new requires some small degree of bravery due to the fact that it requires you to become a fool. That's why noobs say dumb noob shit, because they've taken the hero's journey down the path towards wisdom. Like Blake said during one of his religious rants that he called poetry "If the fool would persist in his folly he would become wise"

So yeah, cubes are basically weeds, did you start this thread to make some kind of point? There's plenty of interesting work that could be done with this species, seems like you lack imagination. Can't say that I much admire the cut of your jib.


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27032398 - 11/10/20 10:15 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Do you want to add temperatures and colonization time for science?


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 1
    #27032505 - 11/10/20 11:35 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
Pretty much exactly what you just said. Throw spawn into some coir and as long as you don't breathe too hard out of your mouth you'll get mushrooms. Except that it's only that easy after you become accustomed to failure, because anything new comes with a learning curve. Starting something new requires some small degree of bravery due to the fact that it requires you to become a fool. That's why noobs say dumb noob shit, because they've taken the hero's journey down the path towards wisdom. Like Blake said during one of his religious rants that he called poetry "If the fool would persist in his folly he would become wise"

So yeah, cubes are basically weeds, did you start this thread to make some kind of point? There's plenty of interesting work that could be done with this species, seems like you lack imagination. Can't say that I much admire the cut of your jib.





The first post clearly gave the point.  I wanted to demonstrate that there is more to high yields than clones and monotubs, which are now fashionable, to question orthodoxy basically.  I wanted to give a old tried-and-true technique of using LCs that can be applied just as well to pan cyans as cubensis (in fact it works even better for pans cyans/cambos).  Because so many people have written me thanking me for my threads over the years, I felt compelled to write another here.  Unfortunately, as bodhisatta has repeatedly demonstrated to me, there is this negative vibe going around to new growers or any grower not following the most popular technique of the day.  And I guess if you aren't pulling 200% BE, well, then you are an idiot, despite the fact that 95% of the people in this thread do not pull 200% BE.  In fact, I sensed actual hostility for just answering questions well. 

So here's the deal: like almost all threads, I'm not presenting new material in this one, and I really don't give a fuck what technique people use.  I was just trying to be respectful of questions by answering them because I am a teacher at heart and I love growing mushrooms.  This is precisely the kind of thing that moderators of a cultivation forum should encourage, not discourage with smartass comments.  Had one of the moderators done that back when I was moderator myself for the advanced forum, they would be warned and if they kept doing it, they would not be a moderator for much longer.  Back then moderator trolling wasn't tolerated.  I guess times have changed.

I'm sorry to anyone that was curious about this thread and had to see it closed by this stupid drama, but I'm closing this grow log before I show you that >250% BE can be done more than one way.  I am afraid I have enough self-respect to bow out rather than read smartass stuff such as "yeah we're making cement".  I wouldn't put up with shitheads like that in real life (I'd fire their ass), and I won't here either.

Blue Helix


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27032634 - 11/11/20 01:27 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

You said oatmeal and someone made a joke.

That sends you packing?


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: mushboy]
    #27032647 - 11/11/20 01:39 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

:rolleyes:


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: fahtster]
    #27032762 - 11/11/20 04:26 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I thought millennials were sensitive...
Lighten the fuck up blue jesus christ. Shits embarrassing as fuck. These are light-hearted forums and you're melting about a joke for fucks sake. That melt is worth printing and framing.

Jcm ain't my protege either. He's an entirely capable standalone grower. I learned stuff from him maybe he learned stuff from me. But he didn't need me to get where he is.


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27032769 - 11/11/20 04:47 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Oh dear, call 911, grower down!

Honestly I was taken a bit aback when from my first post you went on to
say how I shouldn't buy oatmeal at the grocery store,
"About the oatmeal, you shouldn't be measuring wet anything and going backward to try to determine the dry weight.  I did that for you because you didn't have the dry weights, but it doesn't apply to oatmeal.  Oatmeal isn't even a proper grain the way it's sold in stores.  It's chipped or usually steam rolled. "
With a picture of Race Horse Oats, I felt like you were just skimming the response.

Also, I could be wrong, but I thought Coir has no nutritive value.
" Coco coir is a nutritive addition as you can see the mycelium attack it like food, so it definitely must be included."

Anyway sorry people "hijacked" your research, but perhaps there's something else to be learned there?


Edited by Inthepit (11/11/20 09:34 AM)


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Inthepit]
    #27033391 - 11/11/20 12:52 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

BE vs oz/quart. . .

I'm running some experiments on the above. . .

I use 55g dry coir/quart hydrated.
I'm using 145g dry rye/quart hydrated.

With clean spawn, I'm assuming that there is yield by spawn weight calc. This makes me assume that more coir will return this in less flushes. . .

I'm not sure BE is a particularly useful metric. . . My experiments may confirm this. . .

Has anyone else done this and published results?

I've been averaging 49g (530ish wet) dry per quart of spawn over 3 flushes. . .
So:
1:1 = 530/200=265%
1:2 = 530/255=208%
1:3 = 530/310=171%


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Bobbit]
    #27033407 - 11/11/20 12:59 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

MS is always a crapshoot, I’ve seen +200% BE first flush with ms, I’ve also seen 50%. Clones give me consistency as cubes vary a lot in terms of yield, colonization speed, potency, etc. I use ms to find clones or advance a generation but, clones are where the yield and consistency is.


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27033441 - 11/11/20 01:18 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Blue Helix said:
Quote:

tripdawg420 said:
every grower should get 10 dry oz average in 2 flushes w 5 qts of spawn:shrug:




Hey, tripdawg420, could you do me a big favor?  I keep reading about these "quarts of spawn".  Can you possibly measure the weight of the dry grains you use for a quart of spawn?  A quart of spawn doesn't mean much to someone who doesn't use spawn like me.  As you know, I use LC direct to bulk.  I used to use spawn a long time ago, but it didn't find all the extra work of making it worth my time once I started using LC techniques.




I doubt youll ever get great yeilds this way. Most of the horsepower is in the grain spawn not the bulk substrate. I run an edible farm now and i even see a noticeable difference in yeilds with the wood loving species according to how much grain spawn i give each bag

As has already been stated genetics is very very important as well


Edited by Stromrider (11/11/20 01:19 PM)


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Blue Helix]
    #27033579 - 11/11/20 02:53 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Noob here, sorry. What's BE?


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: EagerNoob42]
    #27033580 - 11/11/20 02:54 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Biological Efficiency


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: ModularMind]
    #27033590 - 11/11/20 03:00 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I've always thought the BE calculation is off by a factor of 10

If you're comparing dry weights to wet yield and cubes or most mushrooms are 90% water...

That would make 100% impossible to obtain, and that makes sense because you can't turn the entire dry weight of substrate into dry mushroom weight.


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #27033656 - 11/11/20 03:44 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

i never measure.. but 66 qt size monotubs, gypsum, 125  g verm and 555 g coir 5 quartz spawn, i expect 11-12 oz within two flushes, maybe a little more depending on the isolated culture used, usually never go for third flush, but often toss after first flush.

i only put out big because my fresh air is on crack; i ran the same cultures and consistently got close to half the yield for atleast a year, only change was cranking up the fresh air and keeping temperatures low 70's upper 60's f


Edited by trippleblack (11/11/20 03:46 PM)


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: trippleblack]
    #27033705 - 11/11/20 04:12 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I wouldn't recommend using quartz spawn
:howyoudoing:


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27033720 - 11/11/20 04:18 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
I wouldn't recommend using quartz spawn
:howyoudoing:




Yeah, it’s better for stones.


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: ttching8475]
    #27033730 - 11/11/20 04:22 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Snap :mindblown:


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27034394 - 11/12/20 12:36 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
I've always thought the BE calculation is off by a factor of 10

If you're comparing dry weights to wet yield and cubes or most mushrooms are 90% water...

That would make 100% impossible to obtain, and that makes sense because you can't turn the entire dry weight of substrate into dry mushroom weight.



This makes math sense to me. . . Dry to dry. . . :shrug:

Still confused as to why you add the non-nutritional weight though . . . I guess its a cost factor both in material and waste disposal. . .


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Bobbit]
    #27036868 - 11/13/20 11:23 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

If it's actually non nutritional its still added for a reason. Hopefully a benefit. So despite it Maybe being non nutritional it's still a product you're using for some value to your grow. So its included.


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27036925 - 11/13/20 11:57 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I like tracking BE because it allows me to track water movement as well. This is more important in terms of yield IMO.


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Re: Calling all growers that pull off 200% BE (just an average grow) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #27037246 - 11/13/20 03:05 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Substrate holds water. . .
Water = yield. . .
Makes sense for sure. . .


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