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Offlinecloverbrew
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Having filter patch bag issues. Bags blew out. :' (
    #27026210 - 11/07/20 06:59 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Having some issues with grow bags. 1st timer

Here's what I did:
Four medium grow bags each with 2.5 lb of masters mix in 23 qt presto. "Zigzag" folded with a rubber band around bag. Did not put tyvek sleeve in bag  Loaded two on the bottom out of the water, wrapped with towels along the cooker wall. Same for second layer. Put plate on top, pressurized 18 psi for 2.5 hours.

Here's what happened:
Two bags blew open on the side. Two bags expanded and look to be sealed but not confident. None of them looked tight in vacuum sealed like I expected.

Questions:
1)Do I need to protect the bags from the cooker wall
2) should I have rolled the bag ends around the bag instead of " zigzag "
3) did the rubber band keep the bag from venting
4) should I have packed them tighter to keep them from expanding

I know that you want to keep the open bag end out of the water, but I was also trying to keep the filter patch out of the water. Can water enter the filter patch if it's under water?

Please let me know if this needs to be in a different sub. Any myco bag pressure cooking help would be appreciated.

And I did try quite a few different search terms to see if I can find a TEK or sub to guide me before bothering anyone.

Thanks in advance


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OfflineHarry Manbach
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Re: Having filter patch bag issues. Bags blew out. :' ( [Re: cloverbrew]
    #27026538 - 11/07/20 10:37 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Fill the bags more or fill the empty space in the pc with extra jars or lids.

The bags are gonna expand in that open space and blow out before it will vent through the filter patch. 
  I had this issue when I first started too,  Now I squeeze 4 4-5lb bags in my 23,cross stacking 2 bags opposite the 2 bags below them, no towel or protection from the wall.
  If jam packing your pc that full still has you nervous,fill the excess space in your pc before getting it hot!..which essentially is the same principal..so get the most bang for your buck!


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OfflineQuadman
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Re: Having filter patch bag issues. Bags blew out. :' ( [Re: Harry Manbach]
    #27026759 - 11/07/20 12:37 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Did you run out of water?  Did you use electric or gas for heat? Did you vent heavy while under pressure? These things can cause blow out like you describe.


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Offlinesendmehummus
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Re: Having filter patch bag issues. Bags blew out. :' ( [Re: Quadman]
    #27026867 - 11/07/20 01:31 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I know exactly whats wrong. You are not allowing enough air to escape from yoir bags during cooking. Do not zig zag them shut and def dont need a rubber band. just do a simple fold for the tops. When I first started my bags were always cracking and busting bc I was doing the EXACT same thing. Do a simple fold on top and dont open the PC until you are ready to add your spawn. Trust me I have not busted a bag in my PC since I changed the way I fold them down.


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Be patient and keep it simple.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Having filter patch bag issues. Bags blew out. :' ( [Re: cloverbrew]
    #27026872 - 11/07/20 01:37 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I just wrap everything below the filter patch around the substrate tightly (squeezing out extra air) and tuck the top part of the bag from the filter patch up, under the filter patch portion of the bag (between the sub and the filter patch). I personally don't use a rubber band, I just position them in the PC with the patch facing up and the edges tucked into the other bag or the wall of the PC.

If I still have space I just use empty quart jars to fill it.


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InvisibleBsdgaou

Registered: 02/20/19
Posts: 340
Re: Having filter patch bag issues. Bags blew out. :' ( [Re: teknix]
    #27027708 - 11/07/20 10:33 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I've got same problems when I bought new bags. However if bags would be problem, then all would explode, but mine only explode bottom two. I tried more water, lids all aroung bags, lifting that thing in presto bottom, one fold, another fold, air out, less grains in bags... Same problem everytime. I tried cooking on small burning flame, same story. Now I run 10 jars for grain and on top 2 bags. It's not ideal, but... still waiting for solution. Maybe wrap them in ALU foil?


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Having filter patch bag issues. Bags blew out. :' ( [Re: Bsdgaou]
    #27027808 - 11/08/20 12:33 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe it is the quality of the bags then? I'm using the 2 mil unicorn bags. They make thicker bags as well. Are you quick releasing the steam on the PC? That could also be a reason.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Having filter patch bag issues. Bags blew out. :' ( [Re: Harry Manbach]
    #27027886 - 11/08/20 02:46 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Harry Manbach said:
Fill the bags more or fill the empty space in the pc with extra jars or lids.

The bags are gonna expand in that open space and blow out before it will vent through the filter patch. 
  I had this issue when I first started too,  Now I squeeze 4 4-5lb bags in my 23,cross stacking 2 bags opposite the 2 bags below them, no towel or protection from the wall.
  If jam packing your pc that full still has you nervous,fill the excess space in your pc before getting it hot!..which essentially is the same principal..so get the most bang for your buck!




^^^^^this


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Having filter patch bag issues. Bags blew out. :' ( [Re: cloverbrew]
    #27027893 - 11/08/20 03:08 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

When filter patch bags blow out, it happens during the cool-down phase.  It's because when you shut off the stove, there is 15 psi in the pressure cooker, AND 15 psi inside the bags themselves.  If there is equal pressure in the bags and in the environment surrounding them, they will not blow out, per basic science.

If the PC cools faster (drops pressure) than the bags, you will still have 15 psi inside the bags, but less pressure in the PC itself.  This is the reason for blowout.

The fix:  Either use tyvek sleeves as demonstrated in the Let's Grow Mushrooms, filter patch bag Tek, or ensure the pressure in the sterilizer drops V E R Y slowly, so you never have greater pressure in the bags than the pressure cooker itself.  You do this by repeatedly turning the stove back on for a few seconds at a time during the cool-down to ensure pressure doesn't drop faster in the PC than inside the bags themselves.  It has nothing to do with excess space in the PC itself.

To answer one other question: Use spacers to keep the bags from touching the edges of the PC.  This is to ensure that steam completely surrounds your substrate.  If a bag is against the edge of the PC, it won't get as hot in that area because it isn't surrounded by steam.  This isn't the cause of blowout, but can result in incomplete sterilization.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



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Offlinecloverbrew
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Re: Having filter patch bag issues. Bags blew out. :' ( [Re: Quadman]
    #27027924 - 11/08/20 04:31 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Didn't run out of water, I used to gas, I  let it vent completely on its own


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Offlinesendmehummus
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Re: Having filter patch bag issues. Bags blew out. :' ( [Re: cloverbrew]
    #27028014 - 11/08/20 06:37 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Im telling you just do a simple fold on the top so pressure can release from your bags. You wont have any more problems.


--------------------
Be patient and keep it simple.


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Offlinecloverbrew
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Re: Having filter patch bag issues. Bags blew out. :' ( [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #27028120 - 11/08/20 08:19 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Well, RR replied to my post so I will try  what you say. What you said makes sense. I have some tyvek that I can cut up I will try that. Also put some rings around the outside. Thanks for taking the time to clarify.


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Offlinecloverbrew
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Re: Having filter patch bag issues. Bags blew out. :' ( [Re: sendmehummus]
    #27028123 - 11/08/20 08:19 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Will do, thank you


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Offlinecloverbrew
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Re: Having filter patch bag issues. Bags blew out. :' ( [Re: teknix]
    #27028127 - 11/08/20 08:22 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I appreciate your input. I'll try that. From what I'm seeing minimizing expandable space and allowing for venting is the key.


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Offlinecloverbrew
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Re: Having filter patch bag issues. Bags blew out. :' ( [Re: teknix]
    #27028134 - 11/08/20 08:26 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I got medium .2 micron bags from a place that rhymes with "broom" supply. Not sure of the quality. Saw lots of others getting from there. I'll try what RR and others have suggested. I think it was mostly a lack of bag venting properly. Thanks


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OfflineDr.Sparkle
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Re: Having filter patch bag issues. Bags blew out. :' ( [Re: cloverbrew]
    #27068041 - 12/02/20 11:38 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Of course I agree with RR. He might not agree with this. Hereโ€™s a method I have heard works.
You could use XL .2 micron filter bags, with a larger filter patch than some other brands. Then shorten the length of the bags to be similar in length to a L size bag. Fill with 4.5Lbs cooked grain, then pre seal them. Put 3 in a presto 23L PC folding the top of the bag so the filter does not touch the grain inside. Then you could place aluminum spacers in the bottom so the bags sit out of the water, two in the bottom one laid flat over the top. Then try lining the inside of the pressure cooker with an open ended pillow case so itโ€™s open on the bottom and top (pre soak the pillow case as it will absorb water), cut it to the correct length so there is enough to fold over the top. This stops the bags from melting when they contact the side of the pressure cooker. You then place snap rings in between the bags to allow steam to penetrate around the bags better. PC at 16psi for 2hrs 45mins, you can go less. After cooking lower the temp of the plate and allow the PC to drop from 16psi to 0 over 45minutes. The bags donโ€™t inflate and stretch with this cool down time. Any quicker and you risk damaging the bags.

Regarding minimizing space: If the bags canโ€™t vent or the pressure drops outside the bag faster than the bag can vent to keep up with the pressure change. Then it doesnโ€™t matter how much you have minimized the space around the bag, it will still pop/rupture/fail and stretch somewhere. You wonโ€™t be able to perfectly cover the bag to hold it back from expanding. Itโ€™s physics, itโ€™s the strength of your polypropylene filter bag vs the pressure change.


Edited by Dr.Sparkle (12/02/20 11:48 AM)


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Invisiblejohn_conner

Registered: 02/21/17
Posts: 243
Re: Having filter patch bag issues. Bags blew out. :' ( [Re: Dr.Sparkle]
    #27071345 - 12/04/20 07:43 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Ive have been having the same issues, thank you for posting this. I am going to try what everyone has recommended and see what the turn out is. Good luck to you and keep us posted!


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