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Offlinekoods
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Re: Trump Lost. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27028250 - 11/08/20 11:41 AM (24 days, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Trump's lawsuits were for more election transparency.  You'll have to explain how that's a gross misrepresentation.



Nevermind. I'm done talking to you.



Because Trump DID sue for more transparency.  Unless I misread the Detroit News article.




He was trying to get ballot counting stopped where his lead was vanishing. It has nothing to do with transparency.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Trump Lost. [Re: koods] * 3
    #27028251 - 11/08/20 11:43 AM (24 days, 17 hours ago)

I wonder why he didn't file any lawsuits in the states where he won.  As our benevolent, fair President who seeks only to have fair elections, one would think that he would want to look into every state and ensure that every election was run properly and fairly.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Trump Lost. [Re: koods]
    #27028260 - 11/08/20 11:46 AM (24 days, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

koods said:

He was trying to get ballot counting stopped where his lead was vanishing. It has nothing to do with transparency.



I finally looked into these lawsuits.  Most were about excluding ballots which is not at all about transparency.  Two were about observers.  One of the two was dismissed, and the other resulted in observers being allowed 14 feet closer than they had been previously allowed. 

That's the big transparency win:  Observers who were already there got to move 14 feet closer in one state.


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: Trump Lost. [Re: Enlil]
    #27028303 - 11/08/20 12:10 PM (24 days, 17 hours ago)

This election denialism bullshit is starting to feel a little bit like terrorism to me .
  Trump , Fox News and their cult of dipshits are going full  Alex Jones over their loss .


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Trump Lost. [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27028319 - 11/08/20 12:20 PM (24 days, 17 hours ago)

It comes from the top.  Trumpers are rabid followers. If Trump says the election was stolen, it was. Just look at people on this site. Even rational people turn into glassy eyes cult members when someone doubts their dear leader. Falcon91Wolvrn03 went from solidly logical to full conspiracy dude in a matter of months.

Hopefully the spell will break eventually


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Trump Lost. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27028323 - 11/08/20 12:22 PM (24 days, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Because Trump DID sue for more transparency.  Unless I misread the Detroit News article.




Quote:

Stephens' denial of an injunction in Michigan came on the same day a Georgia judge dismissed a similar suit by Trump's campaign, finding no proof that ballots being processed in Chatham County had been received after 7 p.m. on Election Day.

But Trump continued to press the allegations during a Thursday evening press conference.

“Detroit and Philadelphia, known as two of the most corrupt political places anywhere in our country, easily, cannot be responsible for engineering the outcome of a presidential race,” the Republican president said.




Quote:

Further, in its filing, Trump's campaign failed to name a single absentee counting board preventing access to poll challengers, Assistant Attorney General Heather Meingast said.




Quote:

Stephens questioned the evidence the Trump campaign could provide to show poll challengers were disenfranchised. She also questioned an affidavit claiming Detroit poll workers were told to change dates on late absentee ballots.

"What I have at best is a hearsay affidavit, I believe, that addresses a harm that would be significant, but that’s what we got," Stephens said. "We’ve got an affidavit that is not firsthand knowledge.




Remember that Steele Dossier with plenty of claims but little proof?
Same same.

Edit, I've underlined the bits you might have missed :hatsoff:


Edited by Stable Genius (11/08/20 01:02 PM)


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Trump Lost. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 4
    #27028327 - 11/08/20 12:24 PM (24 days, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

relic said:
And holy shit. The spin in many of your arguments is out there; like way out there...and your transition this past year or so has been mind blowing amazing to read. I think those changes fuckin suck by and large, but realise that doesn't mean shit and you're gonna do you.

Have a good one,  man.  Peace.



Spin?  Can you give an example?

Please read my signature to help understand.  I realize people hate the fact that I criticize my own side when they're wrong, but they've been wrong a lot lately.  :shrug:




We don't even need to look further than that cringeworthy "my side" signature of yours for an example of spin.

Let's be clear here: (1) you have been vocally opposed to the Democratic establishment for years now, and (2) you voted for Donald Trump in the 2020 election. I think treating politics like some sort of sport composed of opposing sides is an inadequate analogy; but if that's how you want to frame things, you chose your side when you cast your ballot for Trump. Continuing to pretend otherwise is spin #1.

Furthermore, instead of acknowledging criticism for the reasons behind your support of Trump, you so frequently spin it as people merely being upset with you personally for 'switching sides' that you installed it as your signature in a preemptive attack. That's spin #2.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Trump Lost. [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27028329 - 11/08/20 12:24 PM (24 days, 17 hours ago)



It just occured to me. Trump is not going to leave the office unless he in handcuffs huh?

Ok lets go back to theoretical situations. Is it possible for Trump to sue his way into a 2nd term? Could he literally sue his way into proving he actually got more votes then Biden and tie this shit up in court for so many years that by the time Biden actually got a day in office it would be at the end of the Trump's second term?

A lot of people are saying Republicans have become so powerful that they will at this point block any attempts by the Democratic party to actually introduce any of their policies into the country any time soon without getting seriously blocked.

Then again Dems won the house right?

But I am absolutely convinced Trump will attempt to be the first person to block his exit out of the White House with a serious push on the Judicial system.

:popcorn: at this point who knows right?

You know the funny thing? As happy as I am to see him leave and want him to get the fuck out I do believe every American has a right to due process and should have their day in court.

Should he be allowed to sue his way into staying in office and declare the voter system a fraud? Should he be able to sue away the electoral system that actually gave him the lead over Hillary Clinton? Or this all a fantasy? But truthfully I think the American law system should be more tedious then it even is and people should take advantage of it more to use it to their benefit. Even if its a racist murdering child molesting big business capitalist like Donald Trump.

:shrug: maybe he deserves another 4 years. This is fucking America right?


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It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Trump Lost. [Re: Enlil]
    #27028336 - 11/08/20 12:26 PM (24 days, 16 hours ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

koods said:

He was trying to get ballot counting stopped where his lead was vanishing. It has nothing to do with transparency.



I finally looked into these lawsuits.  Most were about excluding ballots which is not at all about transparency.  Two were about observers.  One of the two was dismissed, and the other resulted in observers being allowed 14 feet closer than they had been previously allowed. 

That's the big transparency win:  Observers who were already there got to move 14 feet closer in one state.




Even the “observer” suits are designed to stop or slow counting.


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InvisibleMycolorado
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Re: Trump Lost. [Re: Enlil]
    #27028338 - 11/08/20 12:27 PM (24 days, 16 hours ago)

IDK...I’d wager some trump sycophant tries to assassinate Biden.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Trump Lost. [Re: imachavel] * 1
    #27028346 - 11/08/20 12:30 PM (24 days, 16 hours ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
Or this all a fantasy?




Fantasy. The court cases are cooked up. Check out Falcon's link :super:


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Trump Lost. [Re: Stable Genius] * 2
    #27028378 - 11/08/20 12:50 PM (24 days, 16 hours ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
Or this all a fantasy?




Fantasy. The court cases are cooked up. Check out Falcon's link :super:




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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Trump Lost. [Re: Mycolorado]
    #27028388 - 11/08/20 12:55 PM (24 days, 16 hours ago)

Quote:

Mycolorado said:
IDK...I’d wager some trump sycophant tries to assassinate Biden.



What's the difference?  Biden won't be president for more than a year or two.


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Invisiblerelic
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Re: Trump Lost. [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 7
    #27028399 - 11/08/20 12:59 PM (24 days, 16 hours ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

relic said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:Falcon91Wolvrn03
I guess I'll never understand Enlil logic.

- You're against better election transparency
- You're in favor of censorship on Facebook and Twitter
- You think whistle blowers who expose Government crimes should be locked up



Quote:

Enlil said:
I'm in favor of transparency. I'm against lies and tyranny.

I'm in favor of people not being forced to publish speech they don't want to.

I'm in favor of locking up criminals who harm people.



- You've been fighting election transparency this whole discussion
- Facebook and Twitter "are now monopolies that must be restricted and regulated, the report from Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee's antitrust panel says."
- Did you ever answer the question of what harm was done?




You have your quotes fucked up, man.  Enlil didn't write that first quote.



You're right I attributed that to Enlil by mistake when it was me who wrote it.  I fixed it in my original post.

Quote:

relic said:
And holy shit. The spin in many of your arguments is out there; like way out there...and your transition this past year or so has been mind blowing amazing to read. I think those changes fuckin suck by and large, but realise that doesn't mean shit and you're gonna do you.

Have a good one,  man.  Peace.



Spin?  Can you give an example?

Please read my signature to help understand.  I realize people hate the fact that I criticize my own side when they're wrong, but they've been wrong a lot lately.  :shrug:



,,

F91W03, I have not only read ~90% of your posts this year, but also the same amount over the 6+ years I've been using this screen name. I haven't been posting but I've read all new posts weekly to every couple of weeks.  There is nothing I misunderstand about any of it, imo.

Additionally, I've both seen your current sig and read you talking about it many,  many times; I don't need to read it again nor discuss it much further. I understand the cross you wish the rest of us to recognize you bearing. At times I've agreed with you about your sig, at many other times I have not. Vehemently not.

An example of spin is in the two quotes in this post, one by you and the other by Enlil, posted about Enlil's viewpoints about three issues.

He frames it one way, you spin it a different--much more negative/nefarious--way, and the world keeps turning.

A second, quick example is the way you've characterized Donald's lawsuit. Although anecdotal, all but one person I've spoken to realises that donnie only cares about winning, not transparency. That viewpoint has been formed by 30+ years of donald's spoken and written words. His books, speeches, and interviews reinforce, and make obvious to many (most?), this viewpoint and it has zero to do with dishonest attacking or any made-up syndrome.

Yet, in his defense, you unsurprisingly spin it as a desire for transparency while neglecting the preponderance of evidence which has come straight from donnie's mouth, pen, and fingers for decades.

You can have the last word in your rebuttal to this post; I'll not argue it further with you if I can help myself. No matter how unbecoming I find your martyr complex, unending ego-driven propositions of bets, and near constant spinning of arguments,  I don't find anything redeeming or positive about beating on you/your arguments and I wish you well.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Trump Lost. [Re: Enlil]
    #27028469 - 11/08/20 01:47 PM (24 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

koods said:
He was trying to get ballot counting stopped where his lead was vanishing. It has nothing to do with transparency.



Temporarily halted.  Until we got more transparency.

Quote:

Enlil said:
I wonder why he didn't file any lawsuits in the states where he won.



Do you really wonder why?  Someone remind me not to hire Enlil as my lawyer.

Quote:

Enlil said:
I finally looked into these lawsuits.  Most were about excluding ballots which is not at all about transparency.



Notice Enlil left out the details of what ballots Trump wanted excluded.  The ones that didn't comply with state law as I previously explained.

Quote:

Enlil said:
Two were about observers.  One of the two was dismissed, and the other resulted in observers being allowed 14 feet closer than they had been previously allowed.



Again, leaving out the important details.  The Michigan lawsuit was dismissed because "Michigan's count largely is completed" and because the judge argued "the responsibility to give that access ultimately lies with the local election officials".  (I'll get to Stable Genius's argument shortly).

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
This election denialism bullshit is starting to feel a little bit like terrorism to me .



It comes from the top.  Trumpers are rabid followers.



Actually, it comes from election officials not giving the country the transparency the country deserves.  Just listen to Enlil defend our current system.  He's saying it's ok not to have transparency because when it's not transparent vote counting isn't showing signs of cheating.

Quote:

Enlil said:
If Trump says the election was stolen, it was. Just look at people on this site. Even rational people turn into glassy eyes cult members when someone doubts their dear leader. Falcon91Wolvrn03 went from solidly logical to full conspiracy dude in a matter of months.



I never said the election was stolen.  I said it's not transparent enough.  I'm arguing for more transparency, and everyone here is arguing against that.  :shrug:

And asking for more transparency in our elections doesn't make me one "full conspiracy dude".  I've asked Enlil this before in vain, can you PLEASE stop lying about me?


--------------------
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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Trump Lost. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27028482 - 11/08/20 01:56 PM (24 days, 15 hours ago)

Not until you stop lying about me,  cuck.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Trump Lost. [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27028509 - 11/08/20 02:11 PM (24 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Quote:

The Detroit News said:
Stephens' denial of an injunction in Michigan came on the same day a Georgia judge dismissed a similar suit by Trump's campaign, finding no proof that ballots being processed in Chatham County had been received after 7 p.m. on Election Day.

“Detroit and Philadelphia, known as two of the most corrupt political places anywhere in our country, easily, cannot be responsible for engineering the outcome of a presidential race,” the Republican president said.

Further, in its filing, Trump's campaign failed to name a single absentee counting board preventing access to poll challengers, Assistant Attorney General Heather Meingast said.

Stephens questioned the evidence the Trump campaign could provide to show poll challengers were disenfranchised. She also questioned an affidavit claiming Detroit poll workers were told to change dates on late absentee ballots.

"What I have at best is a hearsay affidavit, I believe, that addresses a harm that would be significant, but that’s what we got," Stephens said. "We’ve got an affidavit that is not firsthand knowledge.






Once again, Trump sued to ensure the law was followed.  If no proof of election fraud is found, then it's game over for Trump.  We definitely need more transparency in our elections.

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Remember that Steele Dossier with plenty of claims but little proof?
Same same.



US intelligence relied on Steele Dossier until it was found to be bullshit much later.  Now we're relying on the initial election results...

Again, I have no idea if any cheating was going on or not.  I only know people are VERY much against more transparency so this type of thing doesn't happen in the first place.


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Trump Lost. [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27028510 - 11/08/20 02:14 PM (24 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
We don't even need to look further than that cringeworthy "my side" signature of yours for an example of spin.

Let's be clear here: (1) you have been vocally opposed to the Democratic establishment for years now, and (2) you voted for Donald Trump in the 2020 election. I think treating politics like some sort of sport composed of opposing sides is an inadequate analogy; but if that's how you want to frame things, you chose your side when you cast your ballot for Trump. Continuing to pretend otherwise is spin #1.



I'm very open about who "my side" is.  I associate most with the Green Party, and I associate least with the establishment.  All my arguments are consistent with this.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Furthermore, instead of acknowledging criticism for the reasons behind your support of Trump, you so frequently spin it as people merely being upset with you personally for 'switching sides' that you installed it as your signature in a preemptive attack. That's spin #2.



Tell me which arguments I've been wrong about defending Trump on.  :popcorn:


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Trump Lost. [Re: imachavel]
    #27028513 - 11/08/20 02:18 PM (24 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
Is it possible for Trump to sue his way into a 2nd term?



Only if he can prove he actually won more electoral votes legally.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Trump Lost. [Re: Enlil]
    #27028516 - 11/08/20 02:20 PM (24 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I've asked Enlil this before in vain, can you PLEASE stop lying about me?



Not until you stop lying about me,  cuck.



You keep lying about me lying.  If you can finally explain an actual lie I told about you, I'll apologize and stop.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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