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InvisibleWarrk
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What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters?
    #27024515 - 11/06/20 09:10 AM (26 days, 20 hours ago)

Around 50%, reflecting the general community?

Or are shroomers more enlightened, more open-minded as a result of mind-expanding, psychedelic experiences?


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: Warrk] * 6
    #27024526 - 11/06/20 09:22 AM (26 days, 20 hours ago)

Drug users tend to be more susceptible to conspiracy theories, and in the U.S., such theories tend to be used as tools for people like Trump.  As a result, I'd say that the split is closer to 50% than it should be.


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: Warrk] * 7
    #27024529 - 11/06/20 09:27 AM (26 days, 20 hours ago)

Quote:

Warrk said:
Or are shroomers more enlightened, more open-minded as a result of mind-expanding, psychedelic experiences?




I think the presumption that being a Trump supporter makes one "close-minded" or less "enlightened" is, in and of itself, a bit close-minded.

I'm not a Trump supporter nor am I a Biden supporter. For me it's painfully obvious that both parties are unbelievably corrupt. And the sheer fanaticism behind them is appalling.

Nonetheless I think it's important to look at policy and not the person when reflecting on politicians. The government isn't there to make us feel better or be "polite". If we want niceties we have Hallmark and if we want to feel better we have psychiatry and the like. I'll take an abrasive politician that actually helps the greater good than a nice politician that makes everything worse.

Now I'm not saying Trump or Biden are reflections of the above. I think they are both corrupt, down to their individual subatomic particles (their "corruption" is just expressed in different ways).

But I know some very open-minded people who support Trump. Some support him as an anti-Biden measure. Others believe in the policy decisions that have come to fruition under his presidency. Most of them, agree, however, that his behavior is trash.

Ultimately, I think open-mindedness isn't about the politician you support, but about one's ability to have fair and rational discussion with opposing parties rather than blind fanaticism (which there is on both sides).


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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: Enlil]
    #27024590 - 11/06/20 10:33 AM (26 days, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

Drug users tend to be more susceptible to conspiracy



   
I've taken allot of shrooms and never once have I felt an inclination to believe in a conspiracy theory .  I watched 5min of loose change  when it came out , I found it immediately insulting . It just seemed stupid to me .


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: Psilynut2] * 2
    #27024968 - 11/06/20 02:37 PM (26 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

Drug users tend to be more susceptible to conspiracy



   
I've taken allot of shrooms and never once have I felt an inclination to believe in a conspiracy theory .  I watched 5min of loose change  when it came out , I found it immediately insulting . It just seemed stupid to me .




'tend to' doesn't mean all will. I think there's a lot of truth in that statement, barring other factors, drug use seems to correlate with belief conspiracy theories, and generally seems to push people further from consensus reality.

Personally I know for a couple years after my first trips I was listening to a lot of psychedelic grifters like Gaham Hancock and Mckenna, the only reason I didn't go full wackadoodle is because I was educated and critical enough to see the gaping holes in their theories, but lots of people just hear 'oh the pyramids are 10 000 years old' and accept it and go on from there to cultivate other nonsense.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: Ezuma] * 2
    #27025064 - 11/06/20 03:18 PM (26 days, 14 hours ago)

It has been shown that people tend to be more prone to finding patterns where they do not exist when serotonin levels are higher. This is a foundational aspect of most conspiracy theories.


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: Enlil]
    #27025071 - 11/06/20 03:21 PM (26 days, 14 hours ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
It has been shown that people tend to be more prone to finding patterns where they do not exist when serotonin levels are higher. This is a foundational aspect of most conspiracy theories.




that follows, especially from what you see on the shroomery.


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Offlinekneesocks
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: Enlil]
    #27025229 - 11/06/20 05:11 PM (26 days, 12 hours ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Drug users tend to be more susceptible to conspiracy theories, and in the U.S., such theories tend to be used as tools for people like Trump.



I don't bother with conspiracy theories.
My use of entheogens has led me to knowledge of the reality of the world of spirit. Though I'm aware that some people are only aware of the physical world and dismiss the immaterial.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: kneesocks] * 3
    #27025232 - 11/06/20 05:12 PM (26 days, 12 hours ago)

Fairytales about mystical sky wizards are a common tool used by Republicans, too, but not so much Trump.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: Warrk] * 1
    #27025261 - 11/06/20 05:27 PM (26 days, 12 hours ago)

I'd say 50/50. Even back in the 60s, there were a ton of conservative LSD users. Conservatives and liberals like drugs about the same I think. Drugs are drugs and people are people, I don't think political preference affects the degree to which people like or enjoy drugs.


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: kneesocks]
    #27025309 - 11/06/20 05:56 PM (26 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

kneesocks said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Drug users tend to be more susceptible to conspiracy theories, and in the U.S., such theories tend to be used as tools for people like Trump.



I don't bother with conspiracy theories.
My use of entheogens has led me to knowledge of the reality of the world of spirit. Though I'm aware that some people are only aware of the physical world and dismiss the immaterial.




the 'world of the spirit' is even less grounded in reality than most conspiracy theories tbh. If you get something out of your spirituality that's great, but I think the immaterial-ism psychedelics brings on in many users is kind of a questionable effect


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InvisibleWarrk
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #27025340 - 11/06/20 06:24 PM (26 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

Socrateshroom said:

I think the presumption that being a Trump supporter makes one "close-minded" or less "enlightened" is, in and of itself, a bit close-minded.

I'm not a Trump supporter nor am I a Biden supporter. For me it's painfully obvious that both parties are unbelievably corrupt. And the sheer fanaticism behind them is appalling.

Nonetheless I think it's important to look at policy and not the person when reflecting on politicians. The government isn't there to make us feel better or be "polite". If we want niceties we have Hallmark and if we want to feel better we have psychiatry and the like. I'll take an abrasive politician that actually helps the greater good than a nice politician that makes everything worse.

Now I'm not saying Trump or Biden are reflections of the above. I think they are both corrupt, down to their individual subatomic particles (their "corruption" is just expressed in different ways).

But I know some very open-minded people who support Trump. Some support him as an anti-Biden measure. Others believe in the policy decisions that have come to fruition under his presidency. Most of them, agree, however, that his behavior is trash.

Ultimately, I think open-mindedness isn't about the politician you support, but about one's ability to have fair and rational discussion with opposing parties rather than blind fanaticism (which there is on both sides).




This is a good, considered reply - thank you!

The idea that politicians are corrupt is one that does not need repeating, I would go further and say that human beings are fallible and when in positions of power can be easily corrupted if lacking in strong moral values. Biden and Trump therefore are no different to the rest of us, but easier targets because of their high profile.

Having said that, I do believe that we can draw generalisations about Trump supporters (just as we can Biden supporters). I’m interested in the personality traits of voters in the Trump camp and found this which I thought was interesting:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201712/analysis-trump-supporters-has-identified-5-key-traits

Generalisations of course are just that and there are always exceptions and outliers.

My feeling is that there are Trump supporters who have self-interest front and centre and have actually benefitted materially from Trump’s policies, and then there’s a whole swathe of people who have been brainwashed into hero-worshipping Trump.


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InvisibleWarrk
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: Warrk]
    #27025371 - 11/06/20 06:43 PM (26 days, 10 hours ago)

Just found this:

That Trump’s support is based partly on personality rather than policy helps explain why his supporters are so enthusiastic​, even abiut his ​widely mocked ideas​.​ “This is in people’s guts, not their brains,” said Marc Hetherington, a political scientist and an expert on authoritarianism at Vanderbilt University. “This is much more primal.”

https://medium.com/@JimWexler/personality-test-predicts-a-trump-supporter-a0f24931110c

And this:

No one factor describes Trump’s supporters. But an array of factors – many of them reflecting five major social psychological phenomena can help to account for this extraordinary political event: authoritarianism, social dominance orientation, prejudice, relative deprivation, and intergroup contact.

https://jspp.psychopen.eu/article/view/750/html


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InvisibleDontFearThePeepr
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: Warrk] * 1
    #27025670 - 11/06/20 09:56 PM (26 days, 7 hours ago)

There's actually a surprising amount of right-wingers who use psychedelic drugs. LSD/shroom use doesn't seem to affect these core values for them and in some cases can actually catalyze their thinking into more conservative viewpoints. Though this follows with the general rule of thumb in how psychs affect people, which is that they make people more of what they already are.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: Ezuma] * 1
    #27025685 - 11/06/20 10:07 PM (26 days, 7 hours ago)

Quote:

Ezuma said:
Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

Drug users tend to be more susceptible to conspiracy



   
I've taken allot of shrooms and never once have I felt an inclination to believe in a conspiracy theory .  I watched 5min of loose change  when it came out , I found it immediately insulting . It just seemed stupid to me .




'tend to' doesn't mean all will. I think there's a lot of truth in that statement, barring other factors, drug use seems to correlate with belief conspiracy theories, and generally seems to push people further from consensus reality.

Personally I know for a couple years after my first trips I was listening to a lot of psychedelic grifters like Gaham Hancock and Mckenna, the only reason I didn't go full wackadoodle is because I was educated and critical enough to see the gaping holes in their theories, but lots of people just hear 'oh the pyramids are 10 000 years old' and accept it and go on from there to cultivate other nonsense.




Psychedelic grifters. I like that. Even people like Joe Rogan. He says some good thing and some bad things, but all you have to do is mention drugs in a positive light and half the shroomery treats you like your God's gift.


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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #27025933 - 11/07/20 02:31 AM (26 days, 3 hours ago)

Joe Rogan too definitely, there's a lot of em out there.


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Offlinekneesocks
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: Ezuma]
    #27026070 - 11/07/20 05:39 AM (25 days, 23 hours ago)

Quote:

Ezuma said:
the 'world of the spirit' is even less grounded in reality than most conspiracy theories tbh. If you get something out of your spirituality that's great, but I think the immaterial-ism psychedelics brings on in many users is kind of a questionable effect



I can see into the spirit world even while sober.
It is strange to me that you want me to be grounded in your reality rather than my own reality. Even if you tell me not to see or experience what I do because you think I'm nuts, I will still see and experience. It is not up to me and not up to you, much like being born.


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A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next."
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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: nooneman]
    #27026080 - 11/07/20 06:08 AM (25 days, 23 hours ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
I'd say 50/50. Even back in the 60s, there were a ton of conservative LSD users. Conservatives and liberals like drugs about the same I think. Drugs are drugs and people are people, I don't think political preference affects the degree to which people like or enjoy drugs.




That's interesting. Maybe you're right. I remember in the 70's being very surprised reading about conservative pot heads in Texas in Rolling Stone mag. They called them roper dopers. I don't know when the tide turned, but nowadays, yeah around 50/50.

I'm going to take a guess that conservative psychedelic users are less likely to get all spiritual about the experience, and if that's the case it's one of the few times I side with the right. I had one or two drug experiences feeling spiritual in the 70's and never since. I take drugs for my enjoyment of the sensation and I can't even personally relate to the word spiritual. I meditate when I can find the time, but I only look at that rationally.


--------------------
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OfflineThe Thing
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: Enlil]
    #27026112 - 11/07/20 06:49 AM (25 days, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Drug users tend to be more susceptible to conspiracy theories...




Says the moderator of a drug growing website forum.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: The Thing] * 2
    #27026126 - 11/07/20 07:10 AM (25 days, 22 hours ago)

Yes, and yes.


--------------------
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InvisibleWarrk
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #27026329 - 11/07/20 10:38 AM (25 days, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

Socrateshroom said:

Nonetheless I think it's important to look at policy and not the person when reflecting on politicians. The government isn't there to make us feel better or be "polite". If we want niceties we have Hallmark and if we want to feel better we have psychiatry and the like. I'll take an abrasive politician that actually helps the greater good than a nice politician that makes everything worse.






I want to go back to this and add that I think both policy and person are important in a politician. With around 330 million people to choose from in the USA, why can't we have both in a President instead of one or the other: policy or person?

It is the duty of a politician to get the job done, and a moral obligation as a human to be nice maybe?

Personally I'm looking forward to the day when algorithms, big data and AI decide on policy. There will be no Governors, no Presidents, no hiercharcies, no political elites, no governing class.


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: kneesocks] * 2
    #27026502 - 11/07/20 12:15 PM (25 days, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

kneesocks said:
Quote:

Ezuma said:
the 'world of the spirit' is even less grounded in reality than most conspiracy theories tbh. If you get something out of your spirituality that's great, but I think the immaterial-ism psychedelics brings on in many users is kind of a questionable effect



I can see into the spirit world even while sober.
It is strange to me that you want me to be grounded in your reality rather than my own reality. Even if you tell me not to see or experience what I do because you think I'm nuts, I will still see and experience. It is not up to me and not up to you, much like being born.




I'm not telling you to stop having mystical beliefs, I'm just noting that I take the opinions of people who believe in what might as well be fairy-tales with a huge grain of salt. Also that the fact such opinions are usually rooted in drug experiences is one of the major points against psychedelics, in my opinion of course


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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: Ezuma] * 1
    #27027095 - 11/07/20 05:51 PM (25 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

Ezuma said:Also that the fact such opinions are usually rooted in drug experiences is one of the major points against psychedelics, in my opinion of course



The fact is that esoteric philosophy is appropriate for describing the vast world of metaphysical phenomena, and physical science is appropriate for describing our expansive world of physical phenomena.
Just because people have learned more about the physical side of reality doesn't mean that one has a complete understanding of reality. To assume that what you can't see doesn't exist is itself short sighted.
The fact is that we came into being in this world from a state beyond our understanding of existence. Physics has no explanation for that.

Apples are apples, oranges are oranges.

I understand the need to take things into consideration and not subscribe to unreasonable beliefs, but there's no logical reason to dismiss all of one's spiritual experiences as fairy tales while unconditionally accepting all of one's physical experiences as more real than the former. Reality is reality, whether it is a metaphysical experience or the experience of a rock through sensory perception.


--------------------
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A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next."
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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27027662 - 11/07/20 11:49 PM (25 days, 5 hours ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

Drug users tend to be more susceptible to conspiracy



   
I've taken allot of shrooms and never once have I felt an inclination to believe in a conspiracy theory .  I watched 5min of loose change  when it came out , I found it immediately insulting . It just seemed stupid to me .




Yeah crazy conspiracy nutters! 6 seconds! Fire!



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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: Warrk] * 2
    #27029787 - 11/09/20 10:38 AM (23 days, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

Warrk said:
This is a good, considered reply - thank you!

The idea that politicians are corrupt is one that does not need repeating, I would go further and say that human beings are fallible and when in positions of power can be easily corrupted if lacking in strong moral values. Biden and Trump therefore are no different to the rest of us, but easier targets because of their high profile.

Having said that, I do believe that we can draw generalisations about Trump supporters (just as we can Biden supporters). I’m interested in the personality traits of voters in the Trump camp and found this which I thought was interesting:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201712/analysis-trump-supporters-has-identified-5-key-traits

Generalisations of course are just that and there are always exceptions and outliers.

My feeling is that there are Trump supporters who have self-interest front and centre and have actually benefitted materially from Trump’s policies, and then there’s a whole swathe of people who have been brainwashed into hero-worshipping Trump.




Thank you for the reply! Sorry for the late reply on my part, I was away.

Since you put it that way, I see what you are saying.

Of course there are Trump supporters that simply froth at the mouth for him because he is, to them, a personification of everything they want. The question is, whether he has those traits or his followers are just projecting what they want him to be onto him.

We can draw generalizations about supporters of both sides. I'm not sure that this is useful because, in my experience, most Trump supporters I have met in life are not the same rabid animals purported by the media. I think the media picks the most extreme of both sides and shows it, because it's more entertaining. Furthermore, the media stations that are anti-Trump show his worst supporters because they have a vested interest in painting him and his supporters negatively.

Most Trump and Biden supporters I've personally met are pretty normal people. They have differences in fundamental views, obviously, but they aren't sycophants.

However, I also realize that my experience is shaped by the fact that I seek level-headed people who are more moderate irregardless of their party affiliation. So perhaps my experience is of the minority and the majority are as crazy as the media portrays.

Quote:

Warrk said:
I want to go back to this and add that I think both policy and person are important in a politician. With around 330 million people to choose from in the USA, why can't we have both in a President instead of one or the other: policy or person?

It is the duty of a politician to get the job done, and a moral obligation as a human to be nice maybe?

Personally I'm looking forward to the day when algorithms, big data and AI decide on policy. There will be no Governors, no Presidents, no hiercharcies, no political elites, no governing class.




I agree with the first part, from an ideological standpoint. It would be nice to have a decent human being who also has policies that are effective for the greatest good.

But, how can I say what that good is? Many people will disagree with me. There are so many opposing views about what would be good, and most of us don't have any clue what would be effective for hundreds of millions of people.

And here's where my practical belief comes in. Politics attracts a certain kind of person. And the corruption that's now inherent in the system almost ensures that politicians will either be good people with bad policy or bad people with good policy. I guess in that instance, I rather have the latter. I already assume politicians are scum so I at least want them to enact good policy. I'd like them to be good, moral humans but it isn't as important to me because I just want them to do their jobs well. If we could overhaul the system and make politics less lucrative, perhaps we can attract good people who want to make real positive change, not a bunch of psychopaths who want money and power.

And on your last point, I fear the day when AI creates policy. But that's a whole separate issue for me.


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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #27030552 - 11/09/20 07:42 PM (23 days, 9 hours ago)

Nice post again Socrateshroom, thank you for your insights and consideration.


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: kneesocks] * 1
    #27032555 - 11/11/20 02:20 AM (22 days, 3 hours ago)

Quote:

kneesocks said:
Quote:

Ezuma said:Also that the fact such opinions are usually rooted in drug experiences is one of the major points against psychedelics, in my opinion of course



The fact is that esoteric philosophy is appropriate for describing the vast world of metaphysical phenomena, and physical science is appropriate for describing our expansive world of physical phenomena.
Just because people have learned more about the physical side of reality doesn't mean that one has a complete understanding of reality. To assume that what you can't see doesn't exist is itself short sighted.
The fact is that we came into being in this world from a state beyond our understanding of existence. Physics has no explanation for that.

Apples are apples, oranges are oranges.

I understand the need to take things into consideration and not subscribe to unreasonable beliefs, but there's no logical reason to dismiss all of one's spiritual experiences as fairy tales while unconditionally accepting all of one's physical experiences as more real than the former. Reality is reality, whether it is a metaphysical experience or the experience of a rock through sensory perception.




I agree to a point, that mysticism can have its place, and that a certain attitude of reverence for the mystery of being can be very fulfilling an healthy. One point I would take issue with though is drawing a line between physical and mystical experience, as whatever experiences we may or may not designate as mystical or spiritual, they are ALL physical, as all of them take place in the physical brain as far as we know.

My issue is when people take experiences -a product of their physical self, chemistry and environment- and argue that they somehow trump consensus reality simply because of the emotional weight attached.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: Warrk]
    #27041504 - 11/16/20 03:43 AM (17 days, 1 hour ago)

Quote:

Warrk said:
Around 50%, reflecting the general community?

Or are shroomers more enlightened, more open-minded as a result of mind-expanding, psychedelic experiences?




I would say your statement asks a good question. And it should be answered to some degree by evidence not opinion.

Seems the Ancient Mayans used psychedelics and were the most sadistic people ever, even surpassing the Nazis with the tortures they invented. ( A little web searching should confirm this). Then we have the better known case of Charles Manson, and his groupy murderers, who used LSD.
It would seem "set and setting" were considered important by early researchers for good reasons.

It seems to me the assumptions made about psychedelics and some degree of enlightenment being a necessary result, of the use of psychedelics, are unwarranted.

I wonder to what degree the folly of a large part of the US population, at present, is unique, and to what degree other nations are effected, and if so what are the roots of what seems to be a deteriorating mental capacity of humans, or of their education.


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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27041524 - 11/16/20 04:16 AM (17 days, 1 hour ago)

It seems Europeans are more secular and that "intelligent design" (vs evolution) and extreme Christianity is more of a US folly. America's vapid culture, of Disney, Junk food, franchising, Hollywood movies, and so on, is of course at its worst in America, although it has unfortunately by now spread to some degree world wide depending on the prosperity and accessibility of the other nations in question.

So I would tend to think what we see today in America is the compounding effect of over 200 years of going down wrong paths.


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If it was, Buddha would have sold Hallmark cards.



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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: laughingdog] * 2
    #27041642 - 11/16/20 08:01 AM (16 days, 21 hours ago)

I'm not sure what you have against the Mayans compared to all other civilizations in history.

I agree that Americans take religion to a stupid extent compared to Europeans.


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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27042195 - 11/16/20 02:39 PM (16 days, 14 hours ago)

It is the combination of psychedelic use and extreme public tortures, (especially often for no real reason), that makes them pertinent to the discussion.

As an example that psychedelic use, (just like Christianity and the Spanish inquisition) does not necessarily result in goodness.

https://realityisnotoptional.com/2012/10/28/on-mayan-tourture/

https://scholarblogs.emory.edu/gravematters/2017/02/23/human-sacrifice-in-mayan-culture/

and

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ancient+Mayan++psychedelic+use&t=h_&page=1&sexp=%7B%22prodexp%22%3A%22b%22%2C%22prdsdexp%22%3A%22c%22%2C%22biaexp%22%3A%22b%22%2C%22msvrtexp%22%3A%22b%22%2C%22videxp%22%3A%22a%22%7D&ia=web&iai=r1-3

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ancient+Mayan++psychedelic+use&t=h_&page=1&sexp=%7B%22prodexp%22%3A%22b%22%2C%22prdsdexp%22%3A%22c%22%2C%22biaexp%22%3A%22b%22%2C%22msvrtexp%22%3A%22b%22%2C%22videxp%22%3A%22a%22%7D&iax=images&ia=images

etc. ...

The Mayan's modern day descendants in central america & Mexico seem no worse than most other cultures. Constant warfare was also a feature of the ancient society. It was a very odd culture, they had a written language, knowledge of astronomy, and built amazing buildings, and developed interesting art, never-the-less they were horribly cruel.


--------------------
Hope has never been, an effective way to confront reality.
If it was, Buddha would have sold Hallmark cards.



Edited by laughingdog (11/16/20 02:43 PM)


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OfflineEzuma
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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27042817 - 11/16/20 09:55 PM (16 days, 7 hours ago)

cruelty seems a constant in most human societies, sadly. I would say perhaps because only the cruel survive contact with other cultures, but even when you read about hunter gatherers you find out that however harmonious one group may appear, there's often hateful blood-feud, systematic rape and murder between groups, and even within these non-hierarchical societies violence is actually significantly more common than in settled, policed and educated industrial countries.

it's a good point though about the Maya and Aztecs, that psychedelic use clearly doesn't have a history of association with pacifism or moral superiority


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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: Ezuma] * 1
    #27043925 - 11/17/20 03:54 PM (15 days, 13 hours ago)

Yes far more than we like to admit we are the products of our society and local culture.

Even those who feel very rebellious, such as those who join the Hell's Angles motorcycle gang or an Los Angeles gang and do drive by shootings, only end up trading one set of norms and rituals for another.

The drug use of both of these groups ( & other similar groups) would seem to do nothing to liberate any of the "individuals" in them. The societal forces must be much greater, as the groups persist.

Seems all thru history and geography the same function of societies to cause conformity among their members has always been at work. That's of course why we can distinguish Vikings from Benedictine monks. I doubt there were a bunch of Vikings who ate Amanita Muscaria mushrooms, found in the European forests, and went and joined the monks.

Anyone interested in the topic, might find more of interest here:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=drug+use+by+american+soldiers+in+Vietnam&t=h_&ia=web

https://www.culturalsurvival.org/publications/cultural-survival-quarterly/hallucinogenic-plants-and-their-use-traditional-societies


Edited by laughingdog (11/17/20 03:58 PM)


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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: laughingdog] * 2
    #27044632 - 11/17/20 11:41 PM (15 days, 5 hours ago)

I saw a Hippies for Trump picture on a Facebook group I read and everyone was all shocked such people existed, I was like you should the drug enthusiast message board I frequent, they are an epidemic. It seems weird, like if you lit a doobie at a Trump rally I would think they would lynch you. A lot of people seemed to latch on Trumps fake "outsider" persona that's why bikers like him.




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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: viraldrome]
    #27054167 - 11/23/20 05:38 PM (9 days, 12 hours ago)

Some of President Trump's most loyal supporters are meth cooks


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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: viraldrome]
    #27054230 - 11/23/20 06:29 PM (9 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

viraldrome said:
A lot of people seemed to latch on Trumps fake "outsider" persona that's why bikers like him.




Nah, that’s just the toxoplasmosis.


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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: feevers] * 1
    #27065421 - 11/30/20 10:43 PM (2 days, 6 hours ago)

Gee, it's almost as if there are people out there (millions of them, infact) who are smart enough to realize that Trump, despite all his many flaws is still better than the walking puppets on a string that are Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.


Wow. What a shocker!


What an ignorant and stupid thread. :facepalm:


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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: chopstick] * 2
    #27065440 - 11/30/20 10:52 PM (2 days, 6 hours ago)

The damage Trump has done to the nation will take decades to undo.


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Re: What proportion of shroomers in the USA are Trump supporters? [Re: chopstick]
    #27065443 - 11/30/20 10:53 PM (2 days, 6 hours ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
Gee, it's almost as if there are people out there (millions of them, infact) who are smart enough to realize that Trump, despite all his many flaws is still better than the walking puppets on a string that are Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.


Wow. What a shocker!


What an ignorant and stupid thread. :facepalm:




No puppet. You’re the puppet.


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