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Sandstone
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Registered: 09/23/20
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Glass petris
#27019072 - 11/03/20 10:07 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ok, so after receiving another(first ones arrived shattered, no packaging whatsoever) shipment of 100mm petris, I sanitized them, wrapped them individually in foil, made 2 packs of 4 petris.
Wrapped those 2 packs with two layers of foil. Put everything in the oven, climbed up to 340F, waited for about 5mins, then started the countdown, stayed above 340F for aprox. 70min.
Can I just handle that packs up until the point I actually unwrap the whole deal inside the SAB? Or is the sterility compromised as soon as I take them out of the oven? Or will they stay sterile and can actually use them whenever I cook up some agar...? Maybe unwrap the first layer of the pack right before placing them in a SAB, leave the most of the gained contaminants outside? due to lack of experience with agar work..I mean I know that probably it's best to pour and tape the petris as soon as possible, due to time of exposure factor alone, but still, did I screw petris by taking those two packs out the oven and put them in a closet? ..which is clean tho.. Anyhow, let me know your thoughts.
Also, is it possible that some petris actually cracked inside the oven? It seemed like I heard a few pings two times..I was only overshooting for a couple of seconds, up to 360F..No sudden cooling or heating up..I didn't want to unwrap to take a look not to compromise the rest of them..
Thanks. Cheers
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Sandstone
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Ok, just found out that I probably maintained that temp one whole hour short..should have stayed above 340F for like 120min? How high can I overshoot temperature wise and still keep my petris whole? Kitchen ovens have crazy inaccurate thermostats, I just want to know how tedious do I have to be, standing there with a K-Type probe, trying to keep swings +- 50F.. Thanks
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polaritymind
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sub
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Sandstone
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?
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MushRock
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Hi Sandstone,
I'm pretty noob myself and new to this forum. But I do have started myself with Glas petri dished, 100mm diagonal. My glass is OK to 600Degrees Celsius! so It should not crack from heat itself.
But sudden changes in temperature could be fatal. Glass is fragile so handle with care.
I don't use SAB or Oven. Just PC and work in open air (I live alone so not lot of air movement) but do notice some contams growing. But my contamination is starting on top of Agar, not inside.
From what I've red 20 minutes at high temp will do. 60 minutes or even more seems like overkill and presumably will dry out the agar. Not sure if oven time is equal, But I suspect even less time is required due to higher temps.
Wish you good luck at growing!
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Glass petris [Re: MushRock]
#27019161 - 11/03/20 11:15 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you don't end up hating glass dishes more power to you. I used oven sterilization. But then started buying plastic dishes because they're way superior.
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MushRock
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Not sure To hate or to love, yet. Guess I'll find out. Had grown some b+ shrooms 5 to 6 years ago, and because of covid-19 measurements I've now got lots of spare time to spend. So I got the idea of growing shrooms again.
Got some spores on agar: costa rica and and 5 non active strains (clone from supermarket store). Will post in a new tread when I've made more progress and photo's.
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Inthepit
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Don't listen to glass haters wearing turbans! 
Try: Sterilizing glass petris -Kizzle
" 1 hour at 450F should be sufficient but I usually leave it in for 2 because I don't have a lot of faith in Wikipedia "
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Sandstone
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Re: Glass petris [Re: MushRock]
#27019222 - 11/03/20 11:47 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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That's awesome, go glass, save the planet haha no but really man, the amount of shit one household is able to produce...breathtaking really, absolutely not trying to preach but that's the least I can do, besides I have enough time and will power lately to go trough the hassles of sterilization and clunkiness.
I have plastic ones en route, just in case none of my glass ones survives, for whatever reason.. the goal is still to produce mushrooms, I just consider plastic a last resort. Although on the other hand, the amount of tinfoil, oven time, sanitizing, and all that jazz on the other hand..I don't know man 
I don't have the agar in the dishes as I'm oven sterilizing them. My plan was to keep them sterile and wrapped, till I make about 500cc of agar to pour, unpack them inside the SAB, pour the agar, tape with parafilm or just stretch foil, cool them down and store for use.
Thanks, likewise! Cheers
Edited by Sandstone (11/03/20 11:48 AM)
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MushRock
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I don't want to claim this tread but Yes. "the amount of shit one household is able to produce" This is what i'm concerned about. But to use PC on agar filled petri dishes is not great. lots of condensation. I am trying out to use pour technique, but my 1st attempts was while using little too hot agar mixture. So next plates also got condense.
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Sandstone
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Wait, 450F for two hours? Ok, I just checked what I actually ordered and it appears that it's borosilicate glass, which should make it withstand quite a heat right? I got the even heating and cooling sorted so if they cracked it was not because of sudden temp change. Idk, will see once I unwrap, I'll probably manage to pour tomorrow Thanks for that thread, I've just been reading it, and in fact realized that I probably missed quite a few things.. Cheers
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Inthepit
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I love my Corning Borosilicate 100x15mm plates, they're beautiful and I can pour as often as I please! This from my agar journal:
11/1 8g 1.6% Agar, 7.5g 1.5% Pilsner LME, no color plates wrapped in foil 450 F, 2 hrs Try media bottle in pot of 130 F water 21 plates, 6 stack ok, heavy Enter in Agar Agar Sheet Instant Pot warm=160F, Crockpot = 130 Into Crockpot 12:50 130F Poured 25, 2:10 Wrap bottom plate of stacks, wrapped 2:50 (wrapped bottom plate because I'm still letting the bottom plate drop a bit) wrapped stacks of five for later!
I will also pour plastic plates to store in the fridge.
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Sandstone
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Re: Glass petris [Re: MushRock]
#27019254 - 11/03/20 12:04 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MushRock said: I don't want to claim this tread but Yes. "the amount of shit one household is able to produce" This is what i'm concerned about. But to use PC on agar filled petri dishes is not great. lots of condensation. I am trying out to use pour technique, but my 1st attempts was while using little too hot agar mixture. So next plates also got condense.
I was thinking of putting the SAB on top of a heating mat, set to full power heating. Petri dishes would get slightly heated (to aprox. 100F, closing the temperature gap between the pour ready agar and empty petri dishes. You could then, if needed, cool them down slower than air cooling, which should in turn minimize condensation?
Edited by Sandstone (11/03/20 12:06 PM)
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MushRock
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I do have a heating mat and will try it! The glass is still allowing some air exchange as I happen to see no condensation around the glass edges on the lid. Probably will work and solve my condensation issue. Just no SAB yet
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Sandstone
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Re: Glass petris [Re: Inthepit]
#27019271 - 11/03/20 12:11 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inthepit said: I love my Corning Borosilicate 100x15mm plates, they're beautiful and I can pour as often as I please! This from my agar journal:
11/1 8g 1.6% Agar, 7.5g 1.5% Pilsner LME, no color plates wrapped in foil 450 F, 2 hrs Try media bottle in pot of 130 F water 21 plates, 6 stack ok, heavy Enter in Agar Agar Sheet Instant Pot warm=160F, Crockpot = 130 Into Crockpot 12:50 130F Poured 25, 2:10 Wrap bottom plate of stacks, wrapped 2:50 (wrapped bottom plate because I'm still letting the bottom plate drop a bit) wrapped stacks of five for later!
I will also pour plastic plates to store in the fridge.
Yeah, always enjoyed glassy lab stuff, dont know why, stuck with me since high school chem classes XD Thanks for that recipe, looks awesome, only thing is I only interpret about 25% of it would you mind to extract?  Thanks
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Sandstone
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Re: Glass petris [Re: MushRock]
#27019274 - 11/03/20 12:12 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MushRock said: I do have a heating mat and will try it! The glass is still allowing some air exchange as I happen to see no condensation around the glass edges on the lid. Probably will work and solve my condensation issue. Just no SAB yet
I believe those mats certainly reach about 100-110F. I just checked it this afternoon, set at about half power and it reached 86F with a 20W heating mat. What are you using to tape the dishes? It's probably a good thing tho, because that way you at least know that evaporation is happening and should eventually dry the plates in case of any excess condensation. I believe parafilm allows for gas exchange by design.
Edited by Sandstone (11/03/20 12:22 PM)
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MushRock
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yeah I probably cheated somewhere as I don't have used any tape. I've put my active petri's inside of a small carton box, closed. And is stored inside a with closed with closed doors. The non actives are stored in open air without tape. Like to watch during the day while working
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Inthepit
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Well, 8g 1.6% Agar, 7.5g 1.5% Pilsner LME, no color just because, 500mL bottled water. Let the LME disolve in the water for 30-60 min, comes out really clear. Simmer with agar and then PC 20 min. Tighten foil covered lid as soon as safety valve drops.
Like a sous vide I tried a crockpot at 130F and I pour around 117F. Interesting thing is the water cools the agar quicker than air, then the 130F holds it till yer ready to pour.
21 plates, 6 stack ok, but heavy to pour, made for a shaky hand. (also I'm old) Enter in Agar Agar Sheet, I keep Excel sheets and keep forgetting my pours. Mainly to track how many auto contams a pour eventually got. And auto contam or emaculate contamination means you go to your plates later and there's contam all by it's lonesome! 
Poured 25, @ 2:10 (added 4 plastic plates for long term fridge) Wrap bottom plate of stacks, wrapped 2:50 I had a conversation where we felt leaving the plates unwrapped might have been part of my auto contams, so I wrap within and hour.
Oh, wrap your plates with cling wrap.

Edited by Inthepit (11/03/20 12:41 PM)
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Sandstone
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Re: Glass petris [Re: MushRock]
#27019327 - 11/03/20 12:41 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Wow never imagined you could leave an active petri unwrapped..cool. So all of the sterile, aseptic, still air or even flowhood jazz is compressed into about two steps and then you can just leave it without tape, glass lids fitting like shit and nothing happens
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Sandstone
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Re: Glass petris [Re: Inthepit]
#27019331 - 11/03/20 12:44 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inthepit said: Well, 8g 1.6% Agar, 7.5g 1.5% Pilsner LME, no color just because, 500mL bottled water. Let the LME disolve in the water for 30-60 min, comes out really clear. Simmer with agar and then PC 20 min. Tighten foil covered lid as soon as safety valve drops.
Like a sous vide I tried a crockpot at 130F and I pour around 117F. Interesting thing is the water cools the agar quicker than air, then the 130F holds it till yer ready to pour.
21 plates, 6 stack ok, but heavy to pour, made for a shaky hand. (also I'm old) Enter in Agar Agar Sheet, I keep Excel sheets and keep forgetting my pours. Mainly to track how many auto contams a pour eventually got. And auto contam or emaculate contamination means you go to your plates later and there's contam all by it's lonesome! 
Poured 25, @ 2:10 (added 4 plastic plates for long term fridge) Wrap bottom plate of stacks, wrapped 2:50 I had a conversation where we felt leaving the plates unwrapped might have been part of my auto contams, so I wrap within and hour.
Oh, wrap your plates with cling wrap.

That is so awesome, thanks alot. Yeah I was going to ask this at some point because I must've forgot and probably not going to find that post again; is it better to wrap with clingwrap foil than parafilm, why so?

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bodhisatta 
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Quote:
Sandstone said: Wow never imagined you could leave an active petri unwrapped..cool. So all of the sterile, aseptic, still air or even flowhood jazz is compressed into about two steps and then you can just leave it without tape, glass lids fitting like shit and nothing happens 
You shouldn't store them unwrapped. Just because one person had success isn't what I would go by.
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Sandstone
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Yeah makes sense I'm still not sure tho..one pours in the smaller dia piece of a petri dish and then covers that with a larger dia lid right?
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bodhisatta 
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Yea and they're not air tight on purpose
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Inthepit
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There's Cling Wrap, Grafting Tape (gardeners), and Parafilm.
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mind.at.large
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Re: Glass petris [Re: Inthepit]
#27019486 - 11/03/20 01:38 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I usually just treat them like no pours. As in I make agar, pour into plates then put them in the PC as is and sterilize as usual. I’ve never really had a problem with them doing it this way.
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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Inthepit
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Quote:
mind.at.large said: I usually just treat them like no pours. As in I make agar, pour into plates then put them in the PC as is and sterilize as usual. I’ve never really had a problem with them doing it this way.
Not to hijack this thread, but how do you avoid HORRIBLE condensation.
I'd like to no-pour or pre-pour and tried several teks, all were a sloppy mess. From what i've read it's not worth it. But perhaps this is entering a kind of religious war, wait where's my hat.  Francis Bacon 1950 Study after Velázquez
Edited by Inthepit (11/03/20 02:54 PM)
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mind.at.large
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Re: Glass petris [Re: Inthepit]
#27019884 - 11/03/20 05:14 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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To be honest the condensation is not that bad. They usually clear up rather quick. The glass ones I have are pretty small. I got these ones for free, so I might as well use them but I don’t prefer them. I probably wouldn’t buy any more. I like holy grails or just regular plastic petris.
But condensation is not really a worry of mine. It’s annoying, but as long as I’m clean, some condensations fine.
That being said, cleaning up a wild tissue culture on a plate with a ton of moisture spreading bacteria around is a bitch...
I always like to have some plates waiting that have been sitting around for a week or so. By that time most if not all the condensation is gone
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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Sandstone
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Yea and they're not air tight on purpose
I believe they are, I just dont know why. Gas exchange? Preventing heat distortion/cracking and provide enough give/expansion/contraction? I can go google it but as we're at it, I might as well ask  Cheers
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polaritymind
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I do no pour with old 1/2 pint or what was it, the old pf tek style jars and dont have problems with too much condensation. The times I did though, it was often because I cooled them too fast so no releasing pressure early or any of that funny business, leave them to cool in the PC overnight. But then again maybe its my Agar recipe thats not that wet, what do I know.
Also as far as gas exchange goes I find its not that important, the little air in the jar is enough for colonizing half the plate and after a while it stalls, which I had the idea could be a type of long term storage method or something. I am talking about no filter type lids screwed on tight in my case.
-------------------- "to affirm life is to also affirm death" -Albert hofmann
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Sandstone
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So, if I opt for no pour oven sterilization. Won't I burn the sugars and make a mess out of agar, staying at 450F for TWO hours?
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Sandstone
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Quote:
polaritymind said: I do no pour with old 1/2 pint or what was it, the old pf tek style jars and dont have problems with too much condensation. The times I did though, it was often because I cooled them too fast so no releasing pressure early or any of that funny business, leave them to cool in the PC overnight. But then again maybe its my Agar recipe thats not that wet, what do I know.
Also as far as gas exchange goes I find its not that important, the little air in the jar is enough for colonizing half the plate and after a while it stalls, which I had the idea could be a type of long term storage method or something. I am talking about no filter type lids screwed on tight in my case.
That's what I was thinking..that condensation only appears if there's a great temperature difference, too fast. Also GE is not that important if one takes for granted that no condensation happens. But does the condensation also evaporate if there's no gas exchange? Does the agar absorb the condensed water or does it actually evaporate out the petris? Due to obvious lack of actual experience working with agar, I'm only working with theory, trying to get familiar with everything there is to fuck up about agar, BEFORE I actually go do itXD

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Sandstone
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Re: Glass petris [Re: Inthepit]
#27020596 - 11/04/20 01:18 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inthepit said: There's Cling Wrap, Grafting Tape (gardeners), and Parafilm.
Which one works best? Is the parafilm the only one that allows evaporation and gas exchange? It's certainly the most pricey that's for sure
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Sandstone
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I was thinking of doing it in the oven purely because I can't fit much in this PC at the moment..which is kind of lame but am somehow managing it..still learning so doesn't bother me to get creative or something..
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Sandstone
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Re: Glass petris [Re: Inthepit]
#27020602 - 11/04/20 01:21 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inthepit said:
Quote:
mind.at.large said: I usually just treat them like no pours. As in I make agar, pour into plates then put them in the PC as is and sterilize as usual. I’ve never really had a problem with them doing it this way.
Not to hijack this thread, but how do you avoid HORRIBLE condensation.
I'd like to no-pour or pre-pour and tried several teks, all were a sloppy mess. From what i've read it's not worth it. But perhaps this is entering a kind of religious war, wait where's my hat.  Francis Bacon 1950 Study after Velázquez
What about ovens? Would the heat and time of exposure screw up the agar?
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SingularFusion


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Quote:
Sandstone said:
Quote:
Inthepit said: There's Cling Wrap, Grafting Tape (gardeners), and Parafilm.
Which one works best?
cling always served me well
you take a fresh roll and divide it into sections of a width you like for wrapping and saw through with a sharp knife. Make a bunch of rolls at once, store them in a fresh ziploc. Dirt cheap and easy
you take one roll to the SAB where it will live, when you sit down to do work you just throw the first half foot or so off the roll, the rest of the roll is good to go
parafilm costs a fortune here where I am and yes cling breathes also allegedly
think I learned all that from bod's agar thread IIRC, don't wanna go back and check right now eh but it has always worked nicely for me
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MushRock
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That sounds like a great idea. Will try it for sure. Somehow I don't feel confident in using petri dish without tape, on long terms. How do yo apply the cling wrap on petri? Same as para-film tape, or do you wrap the hole dish so its covered in cling wrap.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Glass petris [Re: MushRock]
#27021234 - 11/04/20 11:12 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Just read a agar tek. Then ask questions. There's videos even how to do it.
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funky123
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Quote:
Sandstone said: Ok, so after receiving another(first ones arrived shattered, no packaging whatsoever) shipment of 100mm petris, I sanitized them, wrapped them individually in foil, made 2 packs of 4 petris. ...
> Can I just handle that packs up until the point I actually unwrap the whole deal inside the SAB? > Or is the sterility compromised as soon as I take them out of the oven? > Or will they stay sterile and can actually use them whenever I cook up some agar...? > Maybe unwrap the first layer of the pack right before placing them in a SAB, leave the most of the gained contaminants outside?
When you buy lab grade sterilized plastic dishes you also don't throw away the dishes you didn't use. You just reclose the wrapping and put them somewhere. So, no, you don't have to use them immediately - but I wouldn't wait too long. Why would you - I mean you just heat-sterilize before you need them.
> Also, is it possible that some petris actually cracked inside the oven?
Of course, that is possible. If they are low quality with invisible tensions in the glass. Otherwise it's unlikely.
Quote:
Sandstone said: Ok, just found out that I probably maintained that temp one whole hour short..should have stayed above 340F for like 120min? How high can I overshoot temperature wise and still keep my petris whole?
Bod recommends in his Agar Tek to boil the Agar for 20 minutes at 15psi (about 125°C). As you pour the Agar into the dishes - that's what your weakest link in the sterilization chain is. So, 60 minutes at 170°C should be alright. I set my oven to 250°C - because I can.
Quote:
bodhisatta said: If you don't end up hating glass dishes more power to you. I used oven sterilization. But then started buying plastic dishes because they're way superior.
I'm also pretty happy with glass dishes for mainly three reasons:
- I don't like to produce more waste than necessary.
- I don't have to order them every time.
- On a rubber surface they stay put without having to hold them. Which makes cutting wedges out easier (left hand holds lid, right hand cuts)
Quote:
Sandstone said: Although on the other hand, the amount of tinfoil, oven time, sanitizing, and all that jazz on the other hand..I don't know man 
I just use one sheet of tin foil to sandwich the dishes with it on both sides, closing the sides by folding the edges together. You could even use a pot as a container. Would take longer for them to cool down, though. No need to individually wrap the dishes.
Quote:
MushRock said: I am trying out to use pour technique, but my 1st attempts was while using little too hot agar mixture. So next plates also got condense.
I don't worry about condensation. I just put a flat-bottomed cup with hot water on the top lid for a few minutes and the condensation is gone. The condensation water usually vanishes after doing that once or twice because it gets reabsorbed into the agar or by the mycelium. Or maybe due to gas exchange through the parafilm.
Edited by funky123 (11/04/20 01:41 PM)
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Sandstone
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Re: Glass petris [Re: funky123] 1
#27021529 - 11/04/20 01:47 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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That is an awesome post funky, thanks alot

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