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Random_Hunter
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Unknown species, possibly Amanita.
#27016659 - 11/02/20 01:45 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I found this young mushroom in NW Oregon which I've gone through a few Amanita keys to identify but haven't found anything close. I'm starting to wonder if it's even an Amanita at all. I was thinking some kind of blusher, but it doesn't seem quite right.
Gills: Pale cream color.
Cap: Overall white to very light brown, medium to dark brown scales/warts.
Stem: Very thick volva/bulb, almost as wide as the cap, smooth transition from the bulb to the stem.
Habitat: On a bank on the side of the road in state forest, under pines.
Bruising: None that I can tell 1 hour after breaking the cap and stem. Might be very faint pink in a few cracks in the bulb, but could easily be light brown.
Size: About 10 cm at it's current stage.
Smell: Strong, about 50% similar to Matsutake, somewhat pleasant and musky. Interesting smell, not like any amanitas I've seen.
Spore print: Presumably white, too young to print.
Veil: Very sticky/powdery/weak, may not form a strong ring.
Exposure is a bit wonky:
    
Edited by Random_Hunter (11/02/20 01:59 AM)
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Anglerfish
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Re: Unknown species, possibly Amanita. [Re: Random_Hunter]
#27016812 - 11/02/20 06:19 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Looks like reddish brown staining. The gill color baffles me, though. They appear greyish, while in Amanita species they should be white.
Could you possibly go back to the location you found these and check for more, and take in situ shots?
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Random_Hunter
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Re: Unknown species, possibly Amanita. [Re: Anglerfish]
#27017530 - 11/02/20 01:28 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Some more photos of cuts after leaving overnight, with more accurate color.
Gills overall look like a sickly cream color, closest I can guess is something like water chestnut. They have white powder on the edges.
  
I'll have a look if I can find the location, had a friend driving on an unfamiliar road. It was growing alone, been pretty cold and dry so it may need to rain before more come up.
Edited by Random_Hunter (11/02/20 05:05 PM)
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Random_Hunter
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Re: Unknown species, possibly Amanita. [Re: Random_Hunter]
#27017874 - 11/02/20 05:04 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've found the location and a button stage specimen, looked around and no larger ones yet.
    
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Doc9151
Mycologist



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Re: Unknown species, possibly Amanita. [Re: Random_Hunter]
#27017884 - 11/02/20 05:09 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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That is Amanita but I'm not sure which one.
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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buddy267
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Re: Unknown species, possibly Amanita. [Re: Doc9151]
#27018104 - 11/02/20 06:57 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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It sure does look like an amanita! I wouldn't prepare this until further investigation but I'm pretty sure that is an amanita. Def doesn't look like amanitas with amatoxins though (the warty fragments on the cap in my research are not present on the deadly ones ie. deathcaps). The coloring of the fragments is interesting though as they look brown and do not resemble the typical shape which would make me uncomfortable trying.
Edited by buddy267 (11/02/20 07:00 PM)
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Sk8nshram
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Re: Unknown species, possibly Amanita. [Re: buddy267]
#27018147 - 11/02/20 07:23 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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If it smells similar to matsutake it might be Amanita smithiana.
Edited by Sk8nshram (11/02/20 07:24 PM)
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Doc9151
Mycologist



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Re: Unknown species, possibly Amanita. [Re: Sk8nshram]
#27018160 - 11/02/20 07:30 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Amatoxins are not the only concern with Amanita species, there are phallotoxins and others that are just as concerning.
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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Random_Hunter
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Re: Unknown species, possibly Amanita. [Re: Doc9151]
#27018224 - 11/02/20 08:05 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm definitely not going to be cooking it. It's just bizarre to me and I can't make a satisfying guess on the species.
Amanita smithiana was one of my top 3 guesses, I know they grow here, I've found them 2-3 times. However there are some differences that make me unsure:
1. The brown coloring on the older specimen seems extreme for a smithiana.
2. The smell. Of 2 mature smithiana I've taken home, I don't remember a strong smell. The smell from these sticks to my hands and I can smell it from 4-5 feet away. But I haven't seen a lot of them to know for sure. By luck I collected some matsutake today and compared the two, saying it's about 50% similar to matsutake is pretty accurate. The rest is sort of a nutty/earthy smell, though I'm not good at placing smells.
3. Stem is fairly smooth overall, while smithiana is more shaggy/rough.
4. The volva is larger and more bulbous than usual, but there are a few photos online that are similar.
The stem and cap could just be how dry it's been, so they're not growing fast enough. If it's not smithiana, I'd guess it would be in the same section(Roanokenses).
Here is a mature smithiana I collected last year: https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/amanita-smithiana-mushroom-42c7db96f8014bff8728f7a2fc1eae68
Edited by Random_Hunter (11/03/20 12:18 AM)
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buddy267
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Re: Unknown species, possibly Amanita. [Re: Random_Hunter]
#27018327 - 11/02/20 09:09 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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do other species of amanita contain toxins (not including ibotenic and muscimol) that also have the same veil fragments and base as a muscaria? I have identical mushrooms to a muscaria but one is light brown and the other is almost pure white. I am currently collecting spore prints right now.
specimen A

Specimen B
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Random_Hunter
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Re: Unknown species, possibly Amanita. [Re: Random_Hunter]
#27018363 - 11/02/20 09:27 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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This site my first resource for ID's in the PNW, it doesn't have everything(which is why this thread exists) but has the most common stuff.
http://www.alpental.com/psms/PNWMushrooms/PictorialKey/Amanitaceae.htm
There is a common one growing now that looks like muscaria but is small, pale yellow/orange, bit more fragile, and the warts wash off easily, called Amanita gemmata. For me, more common in state forest, conversely to muscaria which is more common on the coast. Looks like your first one and maybe the second, but make a thread to be sure.
Edited by Random_Hunter (11/02/20 09:43 PM)
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Moria841



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Re: Unknown species, possibly Amanita. [Re: Random_Hunter]
#27018478 - 11/02/20 10:48 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Amanita sect. roanokenses has several deadly species with warty caps
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Doc9151
Mycologist



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Re: Unknown species, possibly Amanita. [Re: Moria841]
#27018837 - 11/03/20 07:58 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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if you really want to id this to species level post it on www.mushroomobserver.org the folks from Amanitacea.org frequently visit the site, not to mention there are others who are capable of making an accurate identification for your observation.
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
Edited by Doc9151 (11/03/20 08:34 AM)
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buddy267
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Re: Unknown species, possibly Amanita. [Re: Doc9151]
#27019220 - 11/03/20 11:47 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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ok Thank you! This find has been incredibly hard to Identify and there seems to be so many species within the fly agaric family that there is just not enough documentation out there yet.
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buddy267
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Re: Unknown species, possibly Amanita. [Re: buddy267]
#27019249 - 11/03/20 12:03 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thank you for linking me to mushroom observer! I believe now that I likely do have a panther but an ameripanther to be specific. They can be white to creamy beige.
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Doc9151
Mycologist



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Re: Unknown species, possibly Amanita. [Re: buddy267]
#27019500 - 11/03/20 01:46 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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it's not in the Muscaria family at all
edit Fly agarics are brightly colored, never like your specimens.
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
Edited by Doc9151 (11/03/20 01:48 PM)
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buddy267
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Re: Unknown species, possibly Amanita. [Re: Doc9151]
#27019551 - 11/03/20 02:15 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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so even though the panthercap contains the same peptides as muscaria it is not considered a fly agaric? everything about them look just like the muscaria I found except for cap color.
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