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OfflineSurfingmycelium
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Registered: 07/03/20
Posts: 181
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Grain Bag Issue * 1
    #27016041 - 11/01/20 04:50 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Hey Guys,

  So, I had 12 grain bags I purchases online from a well known website.  I don’t think I’m allowed to say which but it is one of the reputable places.  They were 5 grain bags. 


I inoculated

2 with a GT ms syringe (2.5 ccs)
2 with a Mazatapec ms syringe (2.5 ccs)
2 with a GT LC (3 ccs all mycelium)
2 with a PE LC (3 ccs all mycelium)
2 with a colonized agar plate
2 with a a half pint of fully colonized GT popcorn grain. 

Syringes were also purchased from a reputable place.  I did a grow with one of them in the summer using the same type of bags and had no issues.  My biggest fruit from this grow was put to agar and cleaned up and made into LC and agar plates, which is what I used. 

Anyway, my issue is, NOT ONE of these bags colonized.  Not even a little.  Nothing.  They just got mushy over time.  I let them got for about a month and nothing at all happened.

I know it wasn’t the starting material because I used 3 different mediums and it was growing out nicely on the agar and grains and in the LC.  I used a still air box.  My temps were around 75 degrees as well.

It seems to me that the bags are the issue.  I just find it odd that all 12 were bad.  How is that possible?  You’d think I’d get some growth.  It was going hang busters on the agar and in my grain jar but nothing when it hit the bags. 

It’s not a huge deal since I finally got a pressure cooker (6 qt for now) and will be making my own grains going forward but I’m just curious why it didn’t colonize.  I’m also a little annoyed that I wasted all that money on these for no reason.

Anybody ever have this issue or have any ideas on why it happened?


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OfflineOldManRiver
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Registered: 11/12/17
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Re: Grain Bag Issue [Re: Surfingmycelium]
    #27016059 - 11/01/20 05:00 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

ugh, when did you get them?  I just ordered what I suspect are the same product. Sounds like they had a bad production run.


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OfflineSurfingmycelium
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Re: Grain Bag Issue [Re: OldManRiver]
    #27016176 - 11/01/20 06:18 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Like 2 months ago I got them


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OfflineTazedelics
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Re: Grain Bag Issue [Re: Surfingmycelium]
    #27016179 - 11/01/20 06:22 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

i think i know who your talking about.. i was going to do the same thing...i also jus ordered from lil shop of spores? but im nervous


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:mushroom2::wink::mushroom2::cool:


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OfflineSurfingmycelium
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Re: Grain Bag Issue [Re: Tazedelics]
    #27016239 - 11/01/20 07:08 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

It was a place in the Midwest if you know what I mean.


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OfflineMnemosynea
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Registered: 10/23/20
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Re: Grain Bag Issue [Re: Surfingmycelium]
    #27016271 - 11/01/20 07:34 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I ordered 2 grains bags from the place you’re insinuating and the same thing happened to me.


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InvisibleTedsDead
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Re: Grain Bag Issue [Re: Mnemosynea]
    #27016359 - 11/01/20 08:28 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Did u test the lc first?


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weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed...  -the fabulous furry freak bros
If you can buy it, you can burn it!



https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396


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OfflineSurfingmycelium
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Re: Grain Bag Issue [Re: TedsDead]
    #27016410 - 11/01/20 08:58 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

TedsDead said:
Did u test the lc first?




Yeah!  I grew it out on agar.  I also colonized 3 grain jars I made with it.  It’s not that.


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InvisibleTedsDead
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Re: Grain Bag Issue [Re: Surfingmycelium]
    #27016420 - 11/01/20 09:04 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Then i would tray making your own grainbags.  I would never trust one that i bought. I mean, They go through the mail:shrug:

It was the bags, the inoculant, or your procedure.


--------------------
weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed...  -the fabulous furry freak bros
If you can buy it, you can burn it!



https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396


Edited by TedsDead (11/01/20 09:05 PM)


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OfflineSurfingmycelium
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Re: Grain Bag Issue [Re: TedsDead]
    #27016544 - 11/01/20 10:37 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

TedsDead said:
Then i would tray making your own grainbags.  I would never trust one that i bought. I mean, They go through the mail:shrug:

It was the bags, the inoculant, or your procedure.




Yeah, this was before I had my PC.  I didn’t want the bags going to waste so I used them.  I wanted to do a comparison with a ms syringe, agar, LC and G2G and document what were the pros and cons to each.  For my own curiosity.  I won’t buy them again because I have no reason to.  I have jars and a PC now.  I was just wondering why none of them worked out.


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InvisibleTedsDead
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Re: Grain Bag Issue [Re: Surfingmycelium]
    #27016561 - 11/01/20 11:04 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I mean, did they contaminate or just that nothing happened?  You noc'ed some with agar and grain so procedure/user error could definitely be at fault.  At this point one can only guess without doing further trials/tests with the same inoculants and bags/grain


--------------------
weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed...  -the fabulous furry freak bros
If you can buy it, you can burn it!



https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396


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InvisibleFriedEggS
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Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,537
Loc: Taiwan
Re: Grain Bag Issue [Re: Surfingmycelium]
    #27016628 - 11/02/20 01:02 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Surfingmycelium said:
It seems to me that the bags are the issue.  I just find it odd that all 12 were bad.  How is that possible?





this is why:
Quote:

Surfingmycelium said:
Like 2 months ago I got them





there is bacteria in nearly all sterilized grain from endospores that survive the sterilization cycle. but it's not a problem if you colonize your grain as soon as possible before the bacteria multiplies. if 2-3 months passes by, then by that time surely the bacteria has grown wild. overly hydrated grains can speed up this process. you don't know how or when those bags were actually sterilized. they could have been sterilized too quickly, the PC not vented, too low of a pressure, hydrated too much, or sterilized a lot longer ago than you think. also, grain bags are hard to do in a SAB so maybe you weren't perfect with your inoculation.


--------------------

(Yes, the egg is real)

How to post pics


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OfflineSurfingmycelium
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Re: Grain Bag Issue [Re: TedsDead]
    #27016770 - 11/02/20 05:29 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

TedsDead said:
I mean, did they contaminate or just that nothing happened?  You noc'ed some with agar and grain so procedure/user error could definitely be at fault.  At this point one can only guess without doing further trials/tests with the same inoculants and bags/grain




Nothing happened.  My agar was clean so I inoculated a small grain jar.  That grain jar grew out nicely so I put it to the bags.  I also had more agar with clean mycelium so I also used that to Inoculate.  I had everything in a SAB and quickly transferred.  I’d think I’d see some growth or at least contamination of some sort.  Didn’t even do that.


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OfflineSurfingmycelium
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Re: Grain Bag Issue [Re: FriedEgg]
    #27016785 - 11/02/20 05:40 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

FriedEgg said:


there is bacteria in nearly all sterilized grain from endospores that survive the sterilization cycle. but it's not a problem if you colonize your grain as soon as possible before the bacteria multiplies. if 2-3 months passes by, then by that time surely the bacteria has grown wild. overly hydrated grains can speed up this process. you don't know how or when those bags were actually sterilized. they could have been sterilized too quickly, the PC not vented, too low of a pressure, hydrated too much, or sterilized a lot longer ago than you think. also, grain bags are hard to do in a SAB so maybe you weren't perfect with your inoculation.





I mean, I totally agree contam could have been an issue and the bags were harder to work with in the SAB but what about the ms syringe or the LC?  I injected them directly in.  I also injected it into grain jars I made and they colonized perfectly. 

12 bags and nothing.  Not even a sign of contamination. 

You’re right though maybe they were old to begin with when they sent them to me.  Then I waited a few weeks to inoculate.  Maybe they dried out?  That sounds like a good explanation.  I would just think at least one would have done something. 

I guess it is what it is.  It’s more of a curiosity so I can learn.  I’m never getting those again now that I have a PC.  Just trying to solve the mystery of the uncolonized bags.  Lol


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OfflineMnemosynea
Trying to Remember


Registered: 10/23/20
Posts: 52
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Re: Grain Bag Issue [Re: Surfingmycelium]
    #27016838 - 11/02/20 06:44 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I don’t think it’s your process or your cultures/spores. If only a couple bags failed I would say that. But all of them? No, I think it’s what FriedEgg said. The bacteria in the bag was allowed to take enough of a foothold to prevent your fungal growth. This was the conclusion I came to with my bags that did the same thing. I was using proven spores and A+ technique.


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InvisibleTedsDead
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Re: Grain Bag Issue [Re: Mnemosynea]
    #27017732 - 11/02/20 03:22 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe not enough oxygen.  Did these bags have filters?

Ive transfered nice looking masters into bags of sterilized grain and sealed them below the filter...  nothing ever grew


--------------------
weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed...  -the fabulous furry freak bros
If you can buy it, you can burn it!



https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396


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OfflineSurfingmycelium
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Re: Grain Bag Issue [Re: TedsDead]
    #27017857 - 11/02/20 04:55 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah, they had a big square filter patch at the top right below where it was sealed.


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Grain Bag Issue [Re: Mnemosynea] * 1
    #27018029 - 11/02/20 06:19 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Mnemosynea said:
I was using proven spores and A+ technique.




Shooting spores into a spawn bag is more like an F- for technique. I would go as far as to say that it's asinine. If you can run bags then why can't you make agar.


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InvisibleTedsDead
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Re: Grain Bag Issue [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 1
    #27018039 - 11/02/20 06:23 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

:whathesaid:

At this point it definitely sounds technique related


--------------------
weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed...  -the fabulous furry freak bros
If you can buy it, you can burn it!



https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396


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OfflineMnemosynea
Trying to Remember


Registered: 10/23/20
Posts: 52
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: Grain Bag Issue [Re: TedsDead]
    #27018057 - 11/02/20 06:34 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
Shooting spores into a spawn bag is more like an F- for technique. I would go as far as to say that it's asinine. If you can run bags then why can't you make agar.




Obviously. Read the thread. The whole point of these is NOT for producing optimized results, but for experimentation (fun). By technique in that context I was referring to sterile environment for inoculation. OP Did use agar.


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