Home | Community | Message Board


Crestline Sales - MycoPath
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
OfflinePHARMAKOS
addict
Registered: 09/13/02
Posts: 573
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
it it harm none...
    #2701316 - 05/19/04 02:45 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

a common wiccan statement is the belief that
"if it harm none, do what thou wilt" (if it hurts no other person, do whatever the hell you want)

now , im not a wiccan myself, but i study many forms of religion and spirituality, and honestly, is there any more applicable, and essentially true belief espoused by ANY religion?

i mean we all know that religion and dogmatic beliefs have resulted in unimaginable suffering. But what if all the bible said was
"if it harm none, do what thou wilt" and people followed it as fanatically?

i mean keep it sweet and simple, right?

the only comparable thing ive found is the old golden rule

"due ontu others as you would have them do onto you"

who says we toss out are bibles and just meditate on these everyday?

:tongue2:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineHypnoToad
Stranger

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 325
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: it it harm none... [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2701352 - 05/19/04 02:51 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

FYI ?Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.? (Matthew 7:12). is from the bible actually.Matthew Chapter 7 verse 42

The importance is not what religion the knowledge comes from nor what book it comes from but merely the power and meaning of such simplistic words of spiritual knowledge.


--------------------
"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePHARMAKOS
addict
Registered: 09/13/02
Posts: 573
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: it it harm none... [Re: HypnoToad]
    #2701480 - 05/19/04 03:14 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

lol yes i was obviously aware that the golden rule is from the bible. All im saying is that of all the religious documents that ive read through, those two simple statements could do the most to really make a differance in the world.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineHypnoToad
Stranger

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 325
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: it it harm none... [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2701504 - 05/19/04 03:20 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

"who says we toss out are bibles and just meditate on these everyday?"

My appologies.I was thrown off by the above sentence.

Have you read the dhammapada or the Upanishads or the bhagavad gita?

All very spiritually rich.


--------------------
"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePHARMAKOS
addict
Registered: 09/13/02
Posts: 573
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: it it harm none... [Re: HypnoToad]
    #2703352 - 05/19/04 11:30 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

i guess what im trying to get across is...
is there ANYTHING in ANY religious book or tradition, that could do more good for the world (if followed) than these two simple aphorisms?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinejono
misc.
Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 137
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: it it harm none... [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2703965 - 05/20/04 01:47 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I do think that it is a good rule, but a few questions:

Im wondering if that interpretation is a little inaccurate?

>(if it harm none, do what thou wilt" (if it hurts no other person, >do whatever the hell you want))

Do you think it might actually mean, if it doesnt harm yourself, or anyone else? (ie if it harm none). A subtle, but important distinction in my opinion.

But these moral laws can be difficult when put into practice, because I can concieve of a lot of difficulty in judging actions that may or may not have some form of harm on another individual or on oneself. Especially if we are talking direct, or indirect forms of harm, and whether it be physical, emotional, potential future harm etc etc). So they provide a good basis for religion, but not definitely an unproblematic or clear cut means of judging action.

So as with all philosophical problems, Im just left further wondering...

But as far as rule of religion, I think you also will find it in Buddhism (i think that the buddha said when judging action that it is alright 'if it doesnt harm yourself or anyone else')

Metta,
Jono.


--------------------
Our problem results from acting like cowboys on a limitless frontier when in truth we inhabit a living spaceship with a finely balanced life-support system." David C. Korton


Edited by jono (05/20/04 01:52 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSource
Remainder of anUnbalancedEquation
Male

Registered: 07/28/03
Posts: 667
Loc: Outer Darkness
Last seen: 3 years, 3 hours
Re: it it harm none... [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2704026 - 05/20/04 02:04 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Notice that the wiccan rule ('if it harms none...') is passive and Jesus's rule ('Do ye so to them...') is active? The first is likened to a 'silver rule', meaning harm none (and I think it means no one, not just the self). The second is a 'golden rule', because it goes a step further and actually comands ACTION to be taken to help others.

The Talmud's version of the 'silver rule' pretty much coincides with what I think you're getting at PHARMAKOS when it says '...This is the entire law; ALL THE REST IS COMMENTARY.'

Yeah, I agree. We probably would have been better off if the golden rule was all we got from our religious teachers. People certainly would have much less to argue about!

This idea certainly seems to be one of the common threads through the world's great religions (a summary of religions silver and golden rules)...

Christianity
All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye so to them; for this is the law and the prophets.
Matthew 7:1

Confucianism
Do not do to others what you would not like yourself. Then there will be no resentment against you, either in the family or in the state.
Analects 12:2

Buddhism
Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.
Udana-Varga 5,1

Hinduism
This is the sum of duty; do naught onto others what you would not have them do unto you.
Mahabharata 5,1517

Islam
No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.
Sunnah

Judaism
What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellowman. This is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary.
Talmud, Shabbat 3id

Taoism
Regard your neighbor?s gain as your gain, and your neighbor?s loss as your own loss.
Tai Shang Kan Yin P?ien

Zoroastrianism
That nature alone is good which refrains from doing another whatsoever is not good for itself.
Dadisten-I-dinik, 94,5


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblewandrnshaman
old hand
Registered: 09/21/03
Posts: 1,196
Loc: Pinellas Co, FL
Re: it it harm none... [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2704251 - 05/20/04 03:01 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

That's the Wiccan Rede, 'An it harm none, do what thou wilt.'

It is in regard to the direct influence of magickal works. There are always going to be secondary effects but to directly change circumstances according to will should be done in accordance with the Rede, Intent. Never practice workings with the intent to harm.

Wiccans have one commandment. That is it.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBlueCoyote
Beyond
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 5,748
Loc: Between
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
Re: it it harm none... [Re: jono]
    #2704489 - 05/20/04 05:09 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jono said:

But these moral laws can be difficult when put into practice, because I can concieve of a lot of difficulty in judging actions that may or may not have some form of harm on another individual or on oneself. Especially if we are talking direct, or indirect forms of harm, and whether it be physical, emotional, potential future harm etc etc). So they provide a good basis for religion, but not definitely an unproblematic or clear cut means of judging action.

So as with all philosophical problems, Im just left further wondering...




Yes, that's the main question. Where does 'harm' start.
If somebody has another 'way of life', could it be 'harmful' to just notice his existence ? That sounds realy fascistoid :wink:
But then, where does tolerance have to end ? :laugh:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Religion and other fairy tales
( 1 2 3 4 ... 9 10 all )
OrgoneConclusion 7,602 191 09/08/08 11:10 AM
by Veritas
* Religion Ravus 377 5 09/28/05 05:00 PM
by Ravus
* The perfect Religion! Psychoactive1984 813 13 04/17/05 11:22 PM
by Psychoactive1984
* "Religion breeds ignorance." PedM 1,146 13 12/10/04 09:01 PM
by Moonshoe
* science, religion, and philosophy Huehuecoyotl 1,001 15 01/28/05 12:05 PM
by Droz
* How do religions start?
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Icelander 3,762 76 06/05/06 08:05 PM
by dorkus
* The Generic Religion Bashing thread
( 1 2 3 all )
OrgoneConclusion 2,956 40 06/26/08 12:29 AM
by Mr. Mushrooms
* The Religion of Today: SCIENCE.
( 1 2 all )
SkorpivoMusterion 2,487 27 08/31/04 12:56 PM
by BlueCoyote

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, DividedQuantum
714 topic views. 2 members, 3 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Azarius
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.06 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 14 queries.