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OfflineOort Cloud Weasel
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Registered: 10/11/20
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Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
BRF tek substrate question
    #27009857 - 10/29/20 08:38 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I have 8 half pint jars colonizing with some cubes, and am still a couple weeks out from complete colonization. I want to grate the BRF cakes with a cheese grater when fully colonized and spawn to a monotub with some substrate I have left over from a previous project and is now being kept in the freezer.

The thing is I only have 10 cups of bulk substrate, giving me about one and a fourth cups of substrate for each jar.

So my question is, Is a 1:1 ratio of colonized BRF cakes to bulk substrate adequate for this TEK?

Also, I wonder if it would work if I were to sterilize 8 more jars of BRF sub and add that to the 10 cups of bulk substrate mentioned earlier, giving a 1:2 ratio. My reasoning is that the extra sub would provide more nutrition and more volume while the sub colonizes and fruits in the monotub, thus increasing yield.


Edited by Oort Cloud Weasel (10/29/20 08:42 AM)


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Invisiblecoversall
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Re: BRF tek substrate question [Re: Oort Cloud Weasel]
    #27009876 - 10/29/20 08:46 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I made some shoeboxes earlier this year and spawned them all at different ratios of BRF > CVG. They all fruited well. So I don't think it's a huge issue. The only thing I can think of is whether 1:1 is going to give you a good enough sub depth, which depends on the size of the tub you want to spawn to. Also remember that as you've got a good bit of verm in the BRF cake it's not going to give you a proper ratio. I don't think it's a major issue again, but it's worth noting that 1:1 BRF to coir is likely to be something more like 1:1.8 (I dunno but you get the picture.)

But hold on, you would most definitely not want to be adding uncolonized BRF to your sub. It's asking for contam. You just need to pasturise some coir. Straight coir on it's own gives great results. If you want to shoot for a ratio that isn't 1:1 then just prepare twice as much coir as BRF.

There's a bunch of teks on here so get searching if you need one.


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OfflineOort Cloud Weasel
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Registered: 10/11/20
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Re: BRF tek substrate question [Re: coversall]
    #27009930 - 10/29/20 09:17 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

coversall said:
I made some shoeboxes earlier this year and spawned them all at different ratios of BRF > CVG. They all fruited well. So I don't think it's a huge issue. The only thing I can think of is whether 1:1 is going to give you a good enough sub depth, which depends on the size of the tub you want to spawn to. Also remember that as you've got a good bit of verm in the BRF cake it's not going to give you a proper ratio. I don't think it's a major issue again, but it's worth noting that 1:1 BRF to coir is likely to be something more like 1:1.8 (I dunno but you get the picture.)

But hold on, you would most definitely not want to be adding uncolonized BRF to your sub. It's asking for contam. You just need to pasturise some coir. Straight coir on it's own gives great results. If you want to shoot for a ratio that isn't 1:1 then just prepare twice as much coir as BRF.

There's a bunch of teks on here so get searching if you need one.





The sub in the freezer is a pre-pasturized one from Shroom Supply, its got h poo in it along with cvg.

The jars of colonized BRF, I got 6 Chitawan and 2 Malabar (wanted six but 4 didn;t colonize). So I was going to go with a bigger shoebox for the 6 and do a smaller one for the 2. I won't go less than 3 inches depth in the tubs, so maybe pasturizing some coir would do the trick. As per your suggestion i'll skip adding sterilized BRF cakes to the sub. Don't want contams.

I heard pasturizing coir in the oven works. Any experience there?

BTW, thanks for the reply!:mushroom2:


Edited by Oort Cloud Weasel (10/29/20 09:17 AM)


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Invisiblecoversall
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Re: BRF tek substrate question [Re: Oort Cloud Weasel]
    #27009945 - 10/29/20 09:25 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

If you've got the sub and it's all pasturised, and you trust the source then you sound good to go, unless I've missed something. Just grate the cakes, mix them with the sub, chuck it in a tub and away you go.

But if you don't have enough pre-pasturised sub then adding in some coir would be the way to go.

Here's a good starting point if you want a tek on preping coir.


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..:: E V E R Y  ::..

..:: New? Start here. ::..
..:: How I Panaeolus. From Agar to Tea ::..


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OfflineOort Cloud Weasel
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Registered: 10/11/20
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Re: BRF tek substrate question [Re: coversall]
    #27009987 - 10/29/20 09:50 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Got it, and thanks for the link, I will check it out


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Offlinetiptrippy
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Re: BRF tek substrate question [Re: Oort Cloud Weasel]
    #27010031 - 10/29/20 10:18 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I spawned 9 half pint jars of B+ to bulk coir with about a 1:2 ratio. I also added 2 half pint jars of sterilized BRF to the mixture and then gave it a 1/4" coir top layer. No contams in sight and have a beautiful pinset starting.

 

I know lots of people think adding the BRF is a horrible idea but it seems to work fine for me and another member here. We could both just be getting very lucky but 🤷‍♂️


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Invisiblecoversall
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Re: BRF tek substrate question [Re: tiptrippy]
    #27010039 - 10/29/20 10:21 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Yes. The addition of uncolonised spawn material to a sub _is_ a bad idea. If it worked consistently and produced better results it would written up about, especially here. It's an uneeded risk when you can get full canopy results without it, or it's associated contam risk.


--------------------

..:: E V E R Y  ::..

..:: New? Start here. ::..
..:: How I Panaeolus. From Agar to Tea ::..


Edited by coversall (10/29/20 10:22 AM)


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OfflineOort Cloud Weasel
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Registered: 10/11/20
Posts: 14
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
Re: BRF tek substrate question [Re: tiptrippy]
    #27010140 - 10/29/20 11:08 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Got it, and thanks for the link, I will check it out
Quote:

tiptrippy said:
I spawned 9 half pint jars of B+ to bulk coir with about a 1:2 ratio. I also added 2 half pint jars of sterilized BRF to the mixture and then gave it a 1/4" coir top layer. No contams in sight and have a beautiful pinset starting.

 

I know lots of people think adding the BRF is a horrible idea but it seems to work fine for me and another member here. We could both just be getting very lucky but 🤷‍♂️




I know there are many diverging opinions on how to do things on these message boards, but that's not such a bad thing, so thanks, and will consider everything:thumbup:


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Invisiblecoversall
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Re: BRF tek substrate question [Re: Oort Cloud Weasel]
    #27010186 - 10/29/20 11:38 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

If you think carefully about the steps taken in growing mushrooms it makes it easier to see why adding nutritious elements to your bulk sub isn't the best idea and asking for trouble.

Using BRF cakes -> coir is a nice example.

Careful steps are taken to make sure the the BRF is never exposed to anything other than your spores. It's sterilized in a sealed jar with a layer of non-nutritious verm acting as a filter. Your flame your needle to make sure it's clean. The big variable is how clean your inoculation medium is. But BRF is meant to be more contam resistant than grains, I can't remember why, but that's why it's suggested for multispore work.

You only open the jar, exposing the cake to other microbes once the nutritious substance, the BRF, has been fully colonised, ensuring that nothing else can get a hold of it.

Bulk substrates like coir are, iirc, very low in nutrients. They are pasterurised so that any competing microbes are knocked back enough to allow your stronger mushroom myc to get it's teeth into the sub before anything else does. Adding nutrients to the bulk does two things, makes the myc colonise more spawn before starting to fruit, and provides something for competing microbes to colonised before the myc does. The cakes provide all the nutrition needed, and in a safe, sealed, and sterile manner. If you want more nutritious spawn than make more cakes, or using a different spawn. But the more nutritious the spawn the cleaner your inoculation needs to be. This is why multispore to grain can increase the contam risk. Agar work allows you to be more sure that you are introducing clean myc to your spawn.

I typed this out mostly to go through the process myself and see if a more experienced user can step in and point out any errors in my thinking.


--------------------

..:: E V E R Y  ::..

..:: New? Start here. ::..
..:: How I Panaeolus. From Agar to Tea ::..


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