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InvisibleRahz
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,248
Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26991228 - 10/18/20 09:50 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Explaining all this to a peasant with no education may seem impossible




The WHO was telling people into July that there was no need for the general population to wear a mask. The whole response has been a clusterfuck and the "science" has changed on a weekly basis. Do you really blame the "peasants" for being skeptical?


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Rahz]
    #26991288 - 10/18/20 10:53 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

we strive to be better


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Registered: 11/15/09
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26991379 - 10/18/20 12:01 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I do not look for uneducated peasants for insight

I refer to your air posts a few posts newer


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with our love with our love we could save the world


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Rahz]
    #26992028 - 10/18/20 09:03 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
...The worldwide death rate as reported is about 5000 cases a day, which has been steady since April and it is actually a bit lower now. This is despite the fact that the number of daily confirmed cases is 4x that of the first wave....




possibly partly due to decreased viral loads due to mask wearing.

whenever there is an agenda, the hard to interpret data gets, a slanted interpretation to confirm the agenda.

There are now different strains predominant in different countries, different treatment protocols in different countries, and better trained staff everywhere.
So there is no controlled experiment, just opinions, it seems.

Sweden with less rules, never-the-less has suggested behavior, as they have a more rational culture and population than the USA, a smaller population, and probably a more rural population, and less rebellious-more compliant population, a direct comparison with the USA just by case numbers, may be more misleading than enlightening. Who knows?


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InvisibleRahz
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,248
Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: laughingdog]
    #26992756 - 10/19/20 11:15 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Yea, it's all over the board. As mentioned way back, mutations generally lead to higher transmissions and fewer host deaths so that's possibly a big part in the change in mortality rate.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleRahz
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Registered: 11/10/05
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Rahz]
    #26993068 - 10/19/20 02:09 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

So Ireland is going on "full lockdown" again for 6 weeks. Only essential businesses open, only essential workers allowed to work. Only exercise within 5 kilos of home. Food services can offer takeout. Weddings up to 25 participants and funerals up to 10.

First, I'll point out that although cases have surged to what Ireland experienced at the peak of the first wave, the daily death rate is virtually zero. Basically nobody in Ireland is dying from covid now.

Second, essential workers make up a sizable portion of the working population, about 20% if I remember correctly. Along with takeout exchanges it's unrealistic to use a lockdown at this point to eradicate the virus. It will still be around Dec 1st if all the positives are true positives.

Third, I've read that there are a ton of dead viral particles floating around, fragments of DNA that can make it's way into the airway and provide a false positive PCR test. There's no easy way to suggest how many of the PCR tests are true positives. This is also a possible reason why the death rate has either not risen with the case rate and in some countries virtually dropped off the chart while cases spike.

In light of the absence of deaths, it doesn't make sense to me to order a full lock down again. It seems ridiculous. :shrug:


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Rahz]
    #26993086 - 10/19/20 02:17 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
In light of the absence of deaths, it doesn't make sense to me to order a full lock down again. It seems ridiculous.



Agree. I was all for whatever measures were necessary to prevent death and suffering in the early days when there were still a lot of unknowns. However now that people are faring so much better and the deaths are way way down it seems like madness to start with that level of restriction again. England has a three tier system and the most extreme is like that. People are starting to really rebel against full lockdown for obvious reasons.

Goes a long way to show just how clusterfuckely disorganized our culture is doesn't it? I'm sure the fact that all the policy makers have no concerns about their incomes being damaged is playing a large part in the current madness, don't you think?


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Rahz]
    #26993106 - 10/19/20 02:27 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
In light of the absence of deaths, it doesn't make sense to me to order a full lock down again. It seems ridiculous. :shrug:




How are the hospitals doing?

this is the metric that is really forcing our hands and our masks.
Hospitals keep getting overloaded, and the Covid protocols - even on a quiet day - make hospital work difficult. Many important surgeries are still being postponed, because of the load on hospitals.

Just think of it this way, we are tightening the screws so that hospitals will be there when we need them, and there will be no medically preventable deaths.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26993229 - 10/19/20 03:41 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah I live near SLC and we're having one of the worst spikes in the nation. Because we're a red state, and the Governor is spineless, masks are still not mandatory. Given the information Rahz has provided, I don't know what the causation is there, but it's ugly here. All of our hospitals are at 100% capacity. It's pretty bad.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26993685 - 10/19/20 09:15 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

Rahz said:
In light of the absence of deaths, it doesn't make sense to me to order a full lock down again. It seems ridiculous. :shrug:




How are the hospitals doing?

this is the metric that is really forcing our hands and our masks.
Hospitals keep getting overloaded, and the Covid protocols - even on a quiet day - make hospital work difficult. Many important surgeries are still being postponed, because of the load on hospitals.

Just think of it this way, we are tightening the screws so that hospitals will be there when we need them, and there will be no medically preventable deaths.




:thumbup:


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #26993723 - 10/19/20 09:42 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

.  And of course Covid or no Covid the world situation, remains disastrous world wide. Humans are so pathetic it took a killer virus just to put a small dent in some of the pollution.
.  Either way mankind is in a pickle, either a killer virus ( this one or a new one (or ones) fresh from another wet market or factory farm or bushmeat stand) slows down our mad destructive tendencies, by seriously limiting our cancerous growth; or no virus and we fuck it all up several times as fast as we are now.
.  There seems no good ending to an evolutionary experiment, that set the head to rule the heart.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26993836 - 10/19/20 11:34 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Perhaps I am wrong but I suspect/guess the majority of patients require only supplemental oxygen. There's plenty of building space that can be quickly converted for such use.

Maybe there's more to it than that but it seems similar to it being 9 months down the road and nobody has been able to figure out how to make N95 masks available in the quantities needed to make a significant difference. People would rather wear cloth fashion masks than convert KN95 to a reasonable N95 alternative. I mean, is it just me or does it seem like there's an absence of creative problem solving all around?

We know that a correctly fitted N95 mask (which isn't hard due to the elastic headbands and foam under a sturdy adjustable nose piece) will protect with minimum efficiency at .3 micron size. Particles in the air smaller than .3 micron and larger than .3 micron will be removed at higher than 95% efficiency. This covers both free floating viruses and most viruses embedded in water. Particle inside the mask will generally be larger than .3 microns in droplet and aerosol form. N95 masks protect better both the user and those in the users environment than cotton or surgical.

Why have people not rallied and shouted for their availability? Don't mention the N95. Health care workers need them and they're in short supply! It's taboo to suggest everyone should be getting them. Why aren't crowds petitioning local, county, state and federal government to get it done? Why haven't private individuals or companies working with China acted to bring them in? Or build the factories here?

Simply having them available would have a huge effect on transmission rates and there would be nothing stopping third parties from adding colorful exterior covers featuring Gucci and Nike for resale. "Wear your N95s!" should be the mantra.

If someone wanted to make some money, they could use a sewing machine and foam stripping to modify KN95 into superior products. That's 120 an hour with potentially a 3 dollar profit per unit. With correct marketing they would sell like hotcakes. :shrug:


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


Edited by Rahz (10/19/20 11:44 PM)


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InvisibleRahz
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,248
Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26993840 - 10/19/20 11:41 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Goes a long way to show just how clusterfuckely disorganized our culture is doesn't it?




Yes it does, and it's not just the extreme cases. Around 100 million will drop below the poverty line before 2021. 8 million so far in the US.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,678
Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Rahz]
    #26993888 - 10/20/20 01:35 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

a lot of truth can be derived from black and white thinking

common sense

we have to think that to have the same things later food and meditation and good things we must act safely and be safe and the way we act must not detract

it is like with with covid and global warming

we have to understand what is good to be good

it's like the world needs you to trip

the world needs you to be truthful

and understand

like this with how you think and the philosophy


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,678
Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Ferdinando]
    #26994441 - 10/20/20 12:02 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

when people think of it as we need the good stuff now then they ruin more than the absence of that stuff

and when they act on it they remove more of that stuff

like when they rather have x than 2 times x later

so politics need to be very scientific and mathematic about it

...


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Rahz]
    #26994668 - 10/20/20 02:11 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
...Why have people not rallied and shouted for their availability? Don't mention the N95. Health care workers need them and they're in short supply! It's taboo to suggest everyone should be getting them. ...




I took your advice, shaved my beard, paid the e-bay price, and use it. But I rarely go out as I am old and live with family -- so I am no example as to what others should do.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: laughingdog]
    #26994722 - 10/20/20 02:33 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

As regards my own post:

Quote:

laughingdog said:
.  And of course Covid or no Covid the world situation, remains disastrous world wide. Humans are so pathetic it took a killer virus just to put a small dent in some of the pollution.
.  Either way mankind is in a pickle, either a killer virus ( this one or a new one (or ones) fresh from another wet market or factory farm or bushmeat stand) slows down our mad destructive tendencies, by seriously limiting our cancerous growth; or no virus and we fuck it all up several times as fast as we are now.
.  There seems no good ending to an evolutionary experiment, that set the head to rule the heart.




.  It occurred to me that the last sentence, also implies an answer to the thread or threads about AI--namely that: we are AI--as clearly humans have no heart (loosely generally metaphorically speaking, of course)-- as thousands of years of war and torture and the shape of the planet show. (That the human mind is less than stellar as Rahz points out is unfortunately also true).
.  This leads to the conclusion that all the fantasies about the possible dangers of AI, are just another case of the Freudian defense mechanism of projection.

.  As regards, the economic horrors taking place with some of the responses to covid, I am sure you Rahz and Jokeshopbeard, are correct. If I was surrounded by folks suffering as a result certainly I would be affected. I live in world where knowledge of distant horrors, in many different forms, affecting millions of people has been known to me since about the age of 15, in the 60's. No one has ever been able to have any effect on the general trend. Genocide has not been a one time event. Horrors are embedded deeply into all human cultures from the tobacco companies, manufacture of unsafe cars, to the love affair with apple computers, assembled in China in nasty conditions.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27002340 - 10/25/20 08:29 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
https://microclimate.com/pages/air-detail

this mask really does it, but wont ship to canada






Third week in October when the units were planned to be shipped in order of first come first served, but there's something amiss with the web site, suspicions are aroused.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #27003219 - 10/25/20 05:38 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Why not just get some KN95s and some elastic and make good enough N95s?

I'm still finding this whole situation most confusing. My brother in law works in the ER. He goes through 20 N95s per day though they do sterilize and reuse. I asked why they weren't made available to everyone via local, state or national gov. His reply was that it's not their responsibility.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Coronavirus - the cure vs the disease [Re: Rahz]
    #27008923 - 10/28/20 06:06 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)



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