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OfflineTranscendent Other
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Growing button mushrooms inside without manure
    #27008736 - 10/28/20 04:07 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I currently have some button mushroom myc growing on agar (about 3 or 4 transfers in), which I cloned from store bought buttons. I've had a little dig around, and it appears that buttons are very difficult to grow without manure (which is not an option at the moment because of the time of year, and obviously I also don't fancy a bag of shit inside my house!).

So, in one last stitch effort I thought it would be worth asking if anyone could recommend a suitable alternative to using manure, or if it's even worth bothering with? Any good button mushroom tek out there you would recommend? (in particular those that are suitable for growing indoors) Failing that, can the myc be frozen without compromising it so I can use it next year?

Thanks!


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Growing button mushrooms inside without manure (moved) [Re: Transcendent Other]
    #27008746 - 10/28/20 04:17 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

This thread was moved from Mushroom Cultivation.

Reason:
Might be a better place for this question.

I believe there are similar species that do not require a bacteria population to fruit. Agaricus bitorquis I believe can pin from a sterile substrate iirc. Might be able to grow those on other bulk media.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Growing button mushrooms inside without manure [Re: Transcendent Other]
    #27009236 - 10/28/20 08:38 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Transcendent Other said:
I currently have some button mushroom myc growing on agar (about 3 or 4 transfers in), which I cloned from store bought buttons. I've had a little dig around, and it appears that buttons are very difficult to grow without manure (which is not an option at the moment because of the time of year, and obviously I also don't fancy a bag of shit inside my house!).

So, in one last stitch effort I thought it would be worth asking if anyone could recommend a suitable alternative to using manure, or if it's even worth bothering with? Any good button mushroom tek out there you would recommend? (in particular those that are suitable for growing indoors) Failing that, can the myc be frozen without compromising it so I can use it next year?

Thanks!




You can't really slow freeze myc and expect it to remain viable, but just drying it out on low temperatures (like 90f) you can preserve it for some time. They call it deep freezing in the excerpt below, but it's generally called flash freezing.

"2. Deep-freezing
Mycelium can be kept in deep frozen condition for extended periods of time if it is frozen at extremely low temperatures. It is unknown to science for how long mycelium can survive in such frozen conditions, but there have been experiments over periods extending 15 years which produced still active mycelium, even after cycles of freezing and defreezing.

Freezing requires -75°C to -80°C and can be done with liquid nitrogen or with electric cooling systems. Spawn producers that do not use this method need to buy back their original strains once in a while in order to avoid degeneration."

https://www.mycelia.be/en/strain-list/strain-maintenance

I haven't tested slow freezing personally, but thinking about the sharp crystals that form in water when slowly freezing and piercing the cell walls, is enough for me to not bother :smile:


Edited by teknix (10/28/20 09:05 PM)


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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: Growing button mushrooms inside without manure [Re: teknix]
    #27012527 - 10/30/20 05:39 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I think any compost will give you a good chance at growing agaricus species, doesnt need to be poo.

since you have the ability to clone mushrooms look for oyster, shiitake, maitake, lions mane, etc. at the store. I find the most variety at asian grocery stores as well as the farmers markets. I think you will enjoy growing any of the other gourmet mushrooms more than agaricus.


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OfflineTranscendent Other
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Re: Growing button mushrooms inside without manure (moved) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #27020712 - 11/04/20 04:38 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Thank you for your input, very helpful in giving me some scope and perspective, as usual!

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
<img src='/forums/images/moved.gif'> This thread was moved from Mushroom Cultivation.

Reason:
Might be a better place for this question.

I believe there are similar species that do not require a bacteria population to fruit. Agaricus bitorquis I believe can pin from a sterile substrate iirc. Might be able to grow those on other bulk media.



Thank you, i'll look into that :smile:

Quote:

teknix said:
You can't really slow freeze myc and expect it to remain viable, but just drying it out on low temperatures (like 90f) you can preserve it for some time. They call it deep freezing in the excerpt below, but it's generally called flash freezing.

"2. Deep-freezing
Mycelium can be kept in deep frozen condition for extended periods of time if it is frozen at extremely low temperatures. It is unknown to science for how long mycelium can survive in such frozen conditions, but there have been experiments over periods extending 15 years which produced still active mycelium, even after cycles of freezing and defreezing.

Freezing requires -75°C to -80°C and can be done with liquid nitrogen or with electric cooling systems. Spawn producers that do not use this method need to buy back their original strains once in a while in order to avoid degeneration."

https://www.mycelia.be/en/strain-list/strain-maintenance

I haven't tested slow freezing personally, but thinking about the sharp crystals that form in water when slowly freezing and piercing the cell walls, is enough for me to not bother :smile:



Thanks for the link... doesn't look straight forward, but i'd like to explore it none the less! Also, that looks like a pretty good resources, so i'm going to save that. I've never come across it before :smile:


Quote:

deadmandave said:
I think any compost will give you a good chance at growing agaricus species, doesnt need to be poo.

since you have the ability to clone mushrooms look for oyster, shiitake, maitake, lions mane, etc. at the store. I find the most variety at asian grocery stores as well as the farmers markets. I think you will enjoy growing any of the other gourmet mushrooms more than agaricus.



Okay sounds good! I'll move on to other strains, and save the buttons for a more seasonally suitable time. Thanks for the advice.

Thanks again everyone!


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InvisibleBonita1Flakes
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Re: Growing button mushrooms inside without manure [Re: Transcendent Other]
    #28341183 - 05/30/23 10:00 PM (7 months, 25 days ago)

This is an exciting find written 18 yrs ago on shroomery.org

In 1960s Agaricus Bisporus was grown successfully in spawn bags then using favourite Shitake substrates produced equal amount of harvest to manure methods. Plus substrate was pasteurised 110°C for 20 minutes. No chemicals needed.



Article here

Adapting substrate formulas used for shiitake for production of brown Agaricus bisporus

Authors

Jóse E Sánchez a, Daniel J Royse b


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