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MikeTesserect
Stranger


Registered: 12/07/16
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Entities
#27006578 - 10/27/20 03:26 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Is it possible that psychedelic entities you are seeing would be just disorganized patterns forming a pareidolic image like seeing elephants in clouds? I tripped so many times and never even seen anything!
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RogerTheRetard
Overlord

Registered: 07/28/17
Posts: 2,545
Loc: Auckland, NZ
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They can occur in high dose trips. Take a higher dose if you want to encounter "entities".
My friend has told me all about seeing jesters/circus themed clowns coming out of a multicoloured tent... And another friend even saw the devil himself and got trapped in hell from my psilocybin mushrooms...
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RogerTheRetard
Overlord

Registered: 07/28/17
Posts: 2,545
Loc: Auckland, NZ
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Recently I saw large purple octopus type tentacles wriggling around my vision in my CEV's on a low dose psilocybin trip. But that does not count.
I told myself "lucky I only look one gram, if I had taken any more I would have seen the whole octopus"...
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,703
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Quote:
MikeTesserect said: Is it possible that psychedelic entities you are seeing would be just disorganized patterns forming a pareidolic image like seeing elephants in clouds? I tripped so many times and never even seen anything!
yes, sort of. the definition does not clarify what happens in pareidoilia, but usually there exist the half expectation to see something, and then fragments of detail can evoke a figure or many, and after a moment of persistence they can flesh out out from shadowy waif like visions to very bright hallucinations.
I usually do not refer to them as entities unless there is some sense of autonomous behavior - and it can be annoyingly contrary to one's desire like tricksters or elves.
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openmind
curious


Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,876
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Quote:
MikeTesserect said: Is it possible that psychedelic entities you are seeing would be just disorganized patterns forming a pareidolic image like seeing elephants in clouds? I tripped so many times and never even seen anything!
In my experience....
"entities" aren't just seeing something in the visuals or having a visual that kinda looks like something. They are very distinct and independent and don't merely arise out of pareidolia .
They also have an actual "presence" to them, like the way it feels to have a living person or animal standing in front of you. When I've had encounters with entities I can "feel" their presence. They also have autonomy and seem independent from my thoughts. Sometimes they even communicate, but usually in a telepathic-like manner.
One time I had two robot/machine/elf/child-like things pop up around me after smoking DMT, they were making clicking and chattering noises and moved very rapidly around me. They had a playful and child like demeanor to them but also had a distinct mechanical/alien/machine like presence to them.
I don't have any concrete beliefs about what the entities really are, I don't get too caught up in all of that but it definitely provides me a lot of "food for thought"...but from my own experiences, I feel they are much more than just something arising out of pareidolia...I have certainly experienced/seen pareidolia in all sorts of things while on psychedelics and it is nothing like an encounter with entities. The difference is like looking at a picture of someone, versus actually having that living/breathing person sitting down in front of you. There is a distinct presence to them, and they seem completely autonomous.
Large doses of smoked DMT and large doses of mushrooms are the only thing that's catalyzed such for me though.

-OM
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MikeTesserect
Stranger


Registered: 12/07/16
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your brain can produce all of that. its more complex than a supercomputer. Terrence mckenna is prob the blame for all of this as far as elfs, jesters, ect
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openmind
curious


Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,876
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Quote:
MikeTesserect said: your brain can produce all of that. its more complex than a supercomputer.
It's possible...What's your point?
Quote:
Terrence mckenna is prob the blame for all of this as far as elfs, jesters, ect
I had these experiences long before I listened to any McKenna...I didn't listen to any Mckenna until like 8+years after I got into psychedelics. I've also encountered more than elfs & jesters/tricksters.
When I first started to get interested in psychedelics I made it a point to not listen to the words of another about the experience specifically so I didn't have any impressions or pre-concieved ideas about what it was I was going to experience. I wanted to go into it as "blind" as I could. (I mostly just did reading into the pharmacology and mechanism of action and safety profile of psychedelics for a few months before I started to dabble with them, not so much trip reports or the experiences of others).
Also...people from all sorts of different cultures from different parts of the globe all have similar themes and similar "entity" encounters.
The trickster/jester is a very common archetype/theme/entity that is encountered.
Here's a quote from a post I made in another thread on the topic of the jester/trickster and entities/archetypes a long while back....
Quote:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21413366#21413366
......The Trickster speaks to us at a deep (sub)conscious level. It seems so for me. To meet him is to contact our human psyche and by no means does that mean it isn't a true deity or entity. If it lives inside us it is alive in a separate reality from our own. If this aspect is not of our own psyche, then surely the intelligence that it is must encompass has a relationship with our species. Perhaps in this case, the very idea or notion of 'trickery' found us when we first started to explore entheogens, back in the caves of between 30.000 and perhaps a 100.000 years ago, when we showed up on its radar.
Trickery might be an aspect of nature itself as well, because trickery is that evolutionary trait that allows a species to fool the hunter, so the prey may escape. In this case this entity is part of the Gaian Mind Or Anima Mundi. That too does not necessarily make it unreal.
But if our early ancestors became aware and became entrapped in the self-reflective state we are all in, using entheogens and explored trance states through singing, rhythmic dancing and so on and so forth, they opened up a doorway to an extra-dimensional intelligence and that by its own nature the Trickster has become embedded as an archetype within our minds. So the Trickster is the trickster because that is what it is to itself. It is not our perception or delusion in relation te reality, not a facet of our ability of humor and our self-reflective ability to observe our own folly. No, in this case the Trickster is an entity that shaped our understanding and inserted itself in our psyche and plays the role of itself.....
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21413366#21413366
-OM
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Vylie
The more you know


Registered: 03/11/20
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Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:03 PM)
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Amanita86
OTD Keymaster


Registered: 09/26/12
Posts: 89,464
Loc: hades
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Re: Entities [Re: Vylie]
#27012401 - 10/30/20 04:20 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I saw some fellows on salvia that wasn’t like looking at a cloud and seeing an ice cream cone.
I’ve not had any dmt entities show up but the ones that are summoned by salvia are like right there in the room/space with you.
What chemical is responsible for regulating how real something is?
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Orange clock, pencil "They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."
*Mark 15:34  Gam zeh ya’avor...
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SonicTitan


Registered: 05/17/16
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The fact we don't know what happens is part of the drive to explore these states of consciousness.
When I smoked dmt it was like someone whispered the most beautiful loving calming thing in my ear and hugs my entire body while being welcomed I to this alternate side of reality. There didn't have to be a visual entity to be assured I was being in the presence of an entity of some sort.
The mantis entities have been a part of my psychedelic experiences for many years now. It is felt inside long before any visual manifestations are brought into it.
-------------------- "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
 
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



Registered: 03/02/15
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It's a combination of phenomena. Over time you'll learn what's your psyche projecting, versus what for all intents and purposes has ontological existence on another "vibration".
Quote:
MikeTesserect said: your brain can produce all of that. its more complex than a supercomputer. Terrence mckenna is prob the blame for all of this as far as elfs, jesters, ect
Your brain is a powerful receiver. How many times have you astral traveled or remote viewed?
I had experiences with elves and pixies before I'd ever even heard a single Terence McKenna lecture or knew what any of this lore/expectation was. That for me was a big smoking gun for the reality of some of this phenomena, so I can only speak for myself.
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,703
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jesters and clowns are natural cartoony transformations of psychedelically enhanced mental imagery, in which parts of successive frames are blended together and features are smeared or stretched.
every chimera is like that, dragons, gryphons, hydras, cyclops, centaur etc. very natural layered perceptions.
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wolf8312
Pennywise


Registered: 10/01/12
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Re: Entities [Re: Vylie]
#27013460 - 10/31/20 08:49 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vylie said:
Quote:
MikeTesserect said: Terrence mckenna is prob the blame for all of this as far as elfs, jesters, ect
I saw jesters way before I read anything about what I should see.
I’ve never seen an elf in any of my 150+ trips.
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RogerTheRetard said: if I had taken any more I would have seen the whole octopus"...
Unless it’s you.
Quote:
MikeTesserect said: Is it possible that psychedelic entities you are seeing would be just disorganized patterns forming a pareidolic image like seeing elephants in clouds? I tripped so many times and never even seen anything!
I hardly saw entities during my first 30 pharma and mushroom trips whom I considered alive. Cartoonish entities, yes.
Now I meet and interact with entities on every trip.
Same. Took me a good while before I made entity contact. Also have never seen an elf! What actually is an elf anyway?
I've always found that terminology strange! Does the elf introduce itself as an elf or does the user just know it's an elf! And if so how? Are we talking like Tinkerbell or something or does an elf have certain elfish and easily definable characteristics I am not aware of?
Always thought that was just a Terrance Mckenna metaphor that went mainstream like the 5g perfect darkness fallacy to be honest.
I get the clowns (obviously) and jesters but that's more about the whole rainbow carnival/circus with often sinister or sardonic undertones for me, but I could never define the entities as anything so specific as an elf! Though perhaps this is because I am not that familiar with elf lore!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,703
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elves - pointed ears, pointy chin, sneaky, thin character, likely to be tricky or to be associated with an unexpected movement. can be any color.
clowns - less fortunate, oversized blotchy smeary colored features, slower than elves.
jesters are like clown-elf tricksters. many stretchy pointy features including clothing. often horizontal striped garments. complicated movements.
the vines of redgreenvines may be a chimeric effect derived from expanding stretchy jester designs mixed with plant like nodes and branching through perceived dimensions.
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wolf8312
Pennywise


Registered: 10/01/12
Posts: 2,356
Last seen: 3 days, 32 minutes
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: elves - pointed ears, pointy chin, sneaky, thin character, likely to be tricky or to be associated with an unexpected movement. can be any color.
clowns - less fortunate, oversized blotchy smeary colored features, slower than elves.
jesters are like clown-elf tricksters. many stretchy pointy features including clothing. often horizontal striped garments. complicated movements.
the vines of redgreenvines may be a chimeric effect derived from expanding stretchy jester designs mixed with plant like nodes and branching through perceived dimensions.
Interesting! But I do wonder how much of it has to do with expectation.
Language like 'complicated movements' and 'slower than elves' makes it sound rather like an RPG, as if you're not merely talking in metaphors but really do view them as distinct and definable by characteristics that remain constant. Not saying you are wrong, but it's interesting that I didn't myself experience this.
For myself other than in a very loose and general sense the entities were so utterly ineffable and unique to themselves, that I find it very hard to categorize them so specifically.
I always found that the entities' appearances were distinctly non-humanoid (without facial features) but genuinely unique and alien in the truest sense of the word which makes describing/remembering them almost impossible as there are no real reference points with which to do so.
For example, I have experienced myself what is depicted in the unnerving picture below (being some kind of toy within the Jesters toybox) but the jesters themselves did not really appear as depicted (as human). But that was very much how I sensed them (or my own mind tried to make sense of them).

Even for me to attempt describing the entities to someone uninitiated probably makes it more likely that I will end up giving that person a misleading and false impression of the experience.
I think we can also mislead ourselves in hindsight as well to be honest, as we try to grasp onto something utterly indescribable by casting about for familiar metaphors and try to make more sense of what we experienced.
I always found any attempts to describe the entities (jeweled-self-dribbling-basketballs) to cheapen them to be frank, because such descriptions do not and cannot get anywhere close to describing how they really appear.
I mean I may see images online of hyperspace and think wow that is such an accurate depiction (to the point where it makes me feel uneasy) but at the same time I know deep down that it doesn't come close!
More generally, I also found at the lower levels there were entities, whereas at higher levels in full on hyperspace- alien machines. The fabric of these machines though consisted of the lower and middle level entities we are talking about- hyperspace itself an infinite, interconnected tapestry made up of all of these individual non-physical creatures, just as we ourselves are thought to be disparate though are actually (from a more zoomed out perspective) one thing or God!
So after a while I kinda came to view entities not as distinct creatures, but more so as shape-shifting demons/angels that were all really one and the same thing, or could on any given day be anything.
But its an interesting discussion.
There are visuals. Then there are entities/spaces. Above them are there jesters and clowns as depicted in the picture and above them the machines or mechanical aliens! Then there is the whole thing or God/hyperspace/the universe.
There are also visions!
One time I saw great rotating pillars of hell for example with demonic inflamed faces glaring out at me! Pure hatred/evil burning out from their eyes. These were not entities though but things that the entities showed me!
So many layers and levels to it all!
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
Edited by wolf8312 (11/01/20 05:09 PM)
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Vylie
The more you know


Registered: 03/11/20
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Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:03 PM)
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wolf8312
Pennywise


Registered: 10/01/12
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Re: Entities [Re: Vylie]
#27013767 - 10/31/20 12:43 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vylie said: I think these are the elves.
As for the Jester, I have a non-mainstream idea. The mainstream idea is that they show you reality is a trick or a joke.
Yes that is a good way of defining the tricksters for me. Not so much by what they look like but how they behave and make one feel (tricked!).
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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MikeTesserect
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MikeTesserect
Stranger


Registered: 12/07/16
Posts: 351
Last seen: 17 days, 22 hours
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its possible these are produced by feedback neural network learning the same way AI produces surreal trippy images, im sure you seen before.look it up
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,703
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yes there is the whole thing about pareidolia (see https://deepdreamgenerator.com/ for AI version of this) and expectation with visions of entities etc, as a separate thing from semiautonomous entity contact, in which either: 1. a benign or hostile spirit seems to animate ah 'hallucinated' figure, or produce 'independent' speech that you can interact with. 2. a distinct perception of being taken over or possessed by an 'independent' intelligence which can control your mind and body.
I find that both of these two 'semi-autonomous' entity types are consistent with the idea of stacked frames of experience, which just like Deja Vu let you slide forward and backward in a short time window, seemingly anticipating what has just happened, and then experiencing it in the future, or conversing with one's self, in lingering experiential time windows that separately accommodate your self at one 3 second window, and your other (which you have created) in a subsequent ~3 second window, such that you have profound emotional reactions to the other and so does it (which is you in the next time frame). When you are very stoned (eg. level 5 when merging with furniture can happen) this happens quite a bit.
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