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Flyingvibrator
Memelord


Registered: 03/10/19
Posts: 53
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Suffering from bad yield... Help
#27006139 - 10/27/20 11:31 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hello there everyone
I've been dabbling in growing for a while now, with only limited success... My tubs always have a low to no yield despite being fully colonized. I've harvested jack shit from 3 big tubs and 10 small ones from this strain, which I've kept going with g2g. (big ones are 50L tubs, with around 7-8L of soil with grain in them, small ones have around 1L in them.)
The first run of 4 big tubs was the best and worst. One of the tubs got contaminated with all kinds of things, so that one was discarded before anything could've grown from it. The other tubs went decently, but one got fungus gnats, and then the others got it too, because of this, i terminated them early as well, only getting 2-3 "flushes" out of them, probably like 80-90g in total, dunno exactly. These tubs were filled with coco coir with colonised birdseed (which is a bit of a hit or miss for me, half of the jars go bad every time). The amount of seed was a bit low, but that was because I made too much soil. The soil was colonised nicely though.
After the big tubs that had the gnats I thought maybe pasteurising the soil beforehand by boiling it just as is done with grain jars would be a good idea. These small tubs looked very healthy when i took off the lids for fruiting, but despite that, not even every tub fruited, and of the ones that did, none gave a lot, and all but one stopped after the first flush. These ones are technically still going, but they're not growing anything anymore, so they're gonna get thrown out soon i think.
Because this has been a bit of a shitshow so far, I'm probably going to get a new syringe with spores and see if i have better luck with that. I still had some jars with grainspawn left though, so i put them in a last try tub, which has been colonising for about a week now, and looking good. Does anyone have any advice on how i can maybe encourage some higher yields for this tub? I've tried the baking paper thing method on the big tubs with questionable success, i feel like it helped, but that may be placebo, and if it did, it didn't do much. I could try a casing layer, but would this help? and if so, when should i apply it? I've experimented with putting some rice flower in the soil with the smaller tubs, and this seemed to be useless.
If anyone has any suggestions for the current tub, of future tubs, everything is welcome.
Ps. I still want a nice canopy, that shit looks dope and i still haven't had one.
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John_1098
Didge life



Registered: 04/01/18
Posts: 555
Loc: Living my dream
Last seen: 25 days, 19 hours
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One word, Agar if you are nt using it already.Spores to grain isn't ideal its if that what you have been doing. Its how I started out but spore syringes/prints are never 100% clean and I believe that may be a factor in what you describe with 50% of jars contaminating. I would guess if that many go bad the others are probably not as healthy as they could be. I would think its probably safe to say that bad spawn is the root cause or atleast a big part of the problem.
-------------------- Don't listen to anything I say, I'm likely 10 grams deep at this very moment
  
Edited by John_1098 (10/27/20 11:45 AM)
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Flyingvibrator
Memelord


Registered: 03/10/19
Posts: 53
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Suffering from bad yield... Help [Re: John_1098]
#27006778 - 10/27/20 05:26 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I was planning on going for agar with the next syringe anyways. But I do doubt that bad spawn is the problem tbh, since I only use the ones without contam for anything, and the contam is bacillus sp (wet spots), aka, it comes from the grain itself and has nothing to do with the spores I started with. I tried dealing with it by letting the grain soak for a day before sterilisation, which is suggested online, but it didn't have any effect. Maybe next time it will though.
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fraki58
Mycology Learner


Registered: 11/20/19
Posts: 245
Last seen: 5 days, 7 hours
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Hey man! Sometimes the spawn looks clean on the jar but it is hiding contams inside, maybe the contamination it's just ~1% so you wont even be able to see it but it's still there. That said i also think your problem comes down to your spawn not being healthy. Coming from spore to grain directly is a bad idea considering that syringes are not clean whatsoever, so, your best bet is to go agar and stop wasting your syringes to good luck only. Good luck with agar, I highly recommend you to do that. Cheers!
-------------------- If any of the said above is incorrect, please correct me! Still learning here and constructive criticism is the best
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ModularMind
M.P.F.



Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 7,902
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Quote:
Flyingvibrator said:
colonised birdseed (which is a bit of a hit or miss for me, half of the jars go bad every time).
This needs to be your focus. It’s THE crucial part of the process.
MS syringe inoculations are always a toss up in a number of respects, not the least of which is unknowable contamination. Even the most reputable vendors will have some percentage slip through the QC cracks.
You won’t realize your goals without first getting your spawn right.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,273
Loc: where?
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Quote:
Flyingvibrator said: But I do doubt that bad spawn is the problem tbh, since I only use the ones without contam for anything, and the contam is bacillus sp (wet spots), aka, it comes from the grain itself and has nothing to do with the spores I started with.
That's not the correct conclusion you should be coming to. It has almost everything to do with the spores. Unless you're doing a really bad job prepping the grains. Or it's both. But to say it has NOTHING to do with spores is 99.9% false.
Got pics?
Edited by mushboy (10/27/20 06:55 PM)
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OldManRiver
Fisherman at large


Registered: 11/12/17
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Loc: Pacific NW USA
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Re: Suffering from bad yield... Help [Re: mushboy]
#27007392 - 10/27/20 10:53 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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1) I find brown rice to be much less contaminant prone, and it's pretty cheap and easy to use. I do it in bags. 1 five lb bag of brown rice makes two just less than 5 lb bags. Spores start pretty easily in brown rice, more so than other grains. You can even buy Uncle Ben's precooked brown rice, the unseasoned one, and inject those.
2) The post above about cleaning to agar is on point. Clean agar pieces dramatically reduce contamination, and allow you to select for vigorous growing areas, thus getting strong myc.
3) Pasteurizing the substrate is easy and again helps. You DON'T want to run in through the PC, you want to heat it to 160-180 degrees. Bod's cooler tek is fast and easy. It's on here somewhere.
4) The biggest yields you see are further cloned to a monoculture, which takes time and diligence.
Every little detail matters. If you want to use syringes, rice in bags is easy and usually works. 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 bags go bad on me when I use spores. Once they go to bulk, I have very few problems until 3rd or 4th flush. My yields are running 2 to 4 ounces dry per bag.
Edited by OldManRiver (10/27/20 11:09 PM)
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Nutella212
Stranger
Registered: 10/06/20
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Re: Suffering from bad yield... Help [Re: OldManRiver]
#27007507 - 10/28/20 01:30 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Agar could pay off
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,536
Loc: Taiwan
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Re: Suffering from bad yield... Help [Re: Nutella212]
#27007521 - 10/28/20 01:45 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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1. use agar. that's all you need to do to see huge improvements. going spores to WBS is not good at all and will kill your yields most of the time. 2. see point number 1 3. see point number 2 4. ignore everything else until you've tried getting a clean culture on agar.
-------------------- (Yes, the egg is real)
How to post pics
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John_1098
Didge life



Registered: 04/01/18
Posts: 555
Loc: Living my dream
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Re: Suffering from bad yield... Help [Re: FriedEgg]
#27007610 - 10/28/20 04:25 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm tellin ya flying vibrator i've been right where you're at before and agar is what will change everything. Once you have good clean spawn its a whole different game.
agar can be done for super cheap with very minimal supplies. You can use jars instead of petri dishes. Jars are kind've a PITA, or those little plastic ketchup containers, lookup "holy grail" plates or "pastywhyte's easy agar tek"
you've probably already got everything youll need aside from some agar powder and LME or skip that and use grain water or potato flakes or cat food, the list goes on. You wont regret it
-------------------- Don't listen to anything I say, I'm likely 10 grams deep at this very moment
  
Edited by John_1098 (10/28/20 04:26 AM)
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A.k.a
Stranger



Registered: 10/27/19
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Re: Suffering from bad yield... Help [Re: John_1098]
#27007658 - 10/28/20 05:36 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you’re going to do spore to grain then use way less coir. You want it colonized ASAP before whatever bacteria is in there takes off.
I’ve got quite a bit of experience spawning bacterial wbs and yield/fruit health drops of drastically the more bulk you add.
I’d go 1:1 and see how it works out.
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LAGM2020     
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FriedEgg



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 2,536
Loc: Taiwan
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Re: Suffering from bad yield... Help [Re: A.k.a]
#27009029 - 10/28/20 06:57 PM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
A.k.a said: If you’re going to do spore to grain then use way less coir. You want it colonized ASAP before whatever bacteria is in there takes off.
I’ve got quite a bit of experience spawning bacterial wbs and yield/fruit health drops of drastically the more bulk you add.
I’d go 1:1 and see how it works out.
sometimes i will still use bacterial grain spawn that others on here would say to toss out. i still use it but i'll do a 1:1 ratio and make my substrate on the dry side with max FAE to ride out the bacteria. it works fine but the yield is always a little lower.
-------------------- (Yes, the egg is real)
How to post pics
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smalltalk_canceled
Babnik


Registered: 07/13/20
Posts: 2,862
Last seen: 12 days, 6 hours
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Hard life!
Ive been chasing that canopy for a while now.
After using a year Maybe to learn Agar and how to just fruit cubes.
My Sempervia and semilanceata grows Are a joke, Even learning one species was hard.
Good luck to you, i myself try to work harder and Hope to get more help when i prove i want to learn and is serious about learning from The shroomery.
For my grows, i foolishly believe its a question of:
-axenic spawn -surface conditions -using enough spawn given the quality of your spawn - coir + Water+ fae situation through your entire run
Its hard AS fuck for some people to grow, Dont give up, have good agar game, be humble, and chase that dream
Good luck to you
-------------------- Willpower is the one true virtue
  
Edited by smalltalk_canceled (10/28/20 08:04 PM)
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OldManRiver
Fisherman at large


Registered: 11/12/17
Posts: 416
Loc: Pacific NW USA
Last seen: 19 hours, 12 minutes
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"axenic"
Had to look that up. Perfect word.
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Flyingvibrator
Memelord


Registered: 03/10/19
Posts: 53
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Suffering from bad yield... Help [Re: OldManRiver]
#27016747 - 11/02/20 04:58 AM (3 years, 2 months ago) |
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Welp, maybe it is the spawn then
Thanks for all the feedback! Already threw the tiny tubs out, but the big one is almost a go for fruiting I think:

After that one is done I'll take a little break, and then go agar with new spores after i figured out how that works exactly.
Any tips on the last tub from the pic like baking paper or a casing layer?
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smalltalk_canceled
Babnik


Registered: 07/13/20
Posts: 2,862
Last seen: 12 days, 6 hours
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Had a Nice looking flush from a foil paper tub, but nothing like a full canopy
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