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OfflineAlan Stone
Corpus

Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 986
Loc: Ten feet up
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
Re: United States, is it all its made out to be? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2679108 - 05/14/04 04:39 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I think we just toot our horns because we thought of liberty and democracy first.



Good call. Like the first Americans weren't Europeans that emigrated.


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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle

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OfflineAlan Stone
Corpus

Registered: 11/23/02
Posts: 986
Loc: Ten feet up
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
Re: United States, is it all its made out to be? [Re: SummerBreeze]
    #2679185 - 05/14/04 04:55 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Furthermore, for a (police) state that calls itself the global watchdog, it's incredibly hypocritical.

A few examples:
- Waging wars under the guise of the invaded country breaking human rights, while not signing the treaty themselves
- The same, but with the addition of U.S. soldiers torturing Iraqi prisoners on a large scale.
- A president endorsing an sexual abstinence campaign, "justified" by AIDS killing people and teenage pregnancies ruining peoples' lives, while abstaining themselves only from informing teenagers about safe sex.
- Invading countries because they have WMD's, while being the largest producer and owner of WMD's and other weapons on a global scale.
- Waging wars on terrorism, while refusing to do anything about the warning by the intelligence agency before 9/11


--------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

- Aristotle

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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: United States, is it all its made out to be? [Re: Ravus]
    #2679189 - 05/14/04 04:56 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
I consider Canada more free than the US, and quite a few European countries




Look at our damn taxes and think twice. Fuck medicaid and welfare.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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OfflineXerov
Stranger
Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 4
Last seen: 20 years, 1 month
Re: United States, is it all its made out to be? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #2679714 - 05/14/04 07:27 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Could you explain why you say we are a republic? One of my friends who is quite inteligent said the same thing, though I didn't get the reason from him.

From what I have learned we are a Representative Democracy. Because we elect our representative who vote on the issues for us.

Other than that, I agree with the original poster.

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Invisiblejux
I'm better thanan STD!

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 924
Re: United States, is it all its made out to be? [Re: SummerBreeze]
    #2680669 - 05/14/04 11:50 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Actually, republic is basically the same thing as a represenative democracy.
Definition of republic "A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them."
You could go so far as to say that we are an oligarchy


JohnnyJ, let me just quote you on this
"Well I've never been to America... [but] to answer [the question] 'is it all its made out to made be?', totally not."
ok, never been, therefore you must judge based on the biased and tainted opinions and views of your informational sources, most likely mass media.

summerbreeze,
let me just quote you on this
"For a place... that after kicking five flavours of sweet fuck out of the indigenious people went on to claim to be a world leader when it does not in actual fact even have a history/language of its own. Being built as it... was on ex-pats and other drifters & dreamers."

Ummm, since when did we need to have our own language in order to be a world leader? And not having our own history? WTF is that all about? We have a very rich history, especially rich given the mixed origins of America.

" But whenever I hear a board munchy 'merican accent on the streets of Antwerp I cringe inwardly. If only that was were it ended. Unfortunately I also tend to curl my lip in disgust ... But it can't be helped."

Ok, so now you hate our accents. You don't like americans because you don't like our accents? WOW... guess what, everyone's accents sound funny to everyone else!

"Why is it, and this is a serious question, that 'merican officals can never hold it together while conducting interviews?"

oh, yes, you're right. We have never had a single official that can answer a question. Riiiiiight. what a load of crap. Oh, and every other politicion in the world is forthcoming and direct and capable in every way. Uhuh, yeah, sure.


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Offlineguri
Master of theimprobablitydrive

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 576
Loc: PNWish.
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
Re: United States, is it all its made out to be? [Re: SummerBreeze]
    #2681043 - 05/15/04 01:36 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

shit man america was a fine country untill we invented the soccer mom.


--------------------
"If you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, then go home and burn all your records, all your tapes, and all your CDs because every one of those artists who have made brilliant music and enhanced your lives? The Beatles were so fucking high, they let Ringo sing a few songs." --Bill Hicks

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OfflineSummerBreeze
Phyconaughty

Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 741
Loc: Antwerpen.
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
Re: United States, is it all its made out to be? [Re: jux]
    #2681124 - 05/15/04 02:10 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Mate, guy above me, I did'nt catch your name. I live in a house that is older than your (sic) country.
I have books and music in my collection that date before the first (?) settlers in 'merica.
As to whether you have culture & history of your own? Well you don't to be honest.
What you have is a mish mash of half remembered folk lore from a displaced group of people who were for the most entirely unloveable.
A country based on greed from the first day you (you the above mentioned unwanted from the four corners of the globe)claimed it as your own for good or for bad.
As to your politics. Well there's a good starting point for civic pride. All politics are corrupt. It's almost the defination of political. Some countries though tend to favour leaders who at least make an attempt to seem in control and informed. At least an attempt. From what (yes, yes, mass & crass media, blah, blah)I see of your illustrious ones they seem to take geat pleasure, almost a sense of pride in the fact that they have no knowledge of (these) events.
Is that a vote of confidence? Telling your people that you've not the foggiest notion of what's (oh, oh, oh!) going on around you?
Shaky start right there.
And still the reins are grasped firmly in the barely appossable grip of Shrub.
So, world leaders then, what?
No worries.
The rest of us don't get a look in, no?
What history exactly are you refering to out of interest?
I'd be very pleased to hear some of it.

"Replies on a post-stamp to the usual address".

*And no, it's not the accents. That's a very simplified way of thinking on it.
It's more, how shall I put this? Everything that your choosen world leader stands for and holds true (I laughed out loud at that last one. I'd say half the peoples would have trouble spelling or defining the word to any level of accuaracy).

So? What about this history lesson then?


--------------------
"Must'nt Grumble!".

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InvisibleSixCee
keep rolling
Male

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 3,720
Loc: US, Chicago
Re: United States, is it all its made out to be? [Re: Chonger]
    #2683049 - 05/15/04 04:37 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Chonger said:
What difference does it make if you "barbaricaly" cut of someones head or completely annihilate it with a sniper rifle? Are we supposed to assume that just because we dont see the other murders of either Iraqis, Americans or other British people, that this is ok and not barbaric? Im sure a lot more gruesome deaths have occured so far in this war.




You missed the point entirely, sir.


--------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-->The above statements may or not be true.
->Quote of the Moment :
"Yea. All bitches are whores who love sex." -Cubie
----> PMs checked daily.

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InvisibleSixCee
keep rolling
Male

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 3,720
Loc: US, Chicago
Re: United States, is it all its made out to be? [Re: SummerBreeze]
    #2683059 - 05/15/04 04:43 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Make your point...


--------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-->The above statements may or not be true.
->Quote of the Moment :
"Yea. All bitches are whores who love sex." -Cubie
----> PMs checked daily.

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OfflineSummerBreeze
Phyconaughty

Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 741
Loc: Antwerpen.
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
Re: United States, is it all its made out to be? [Re: SixCee]
    #2685990 - 05/16/04 09:54 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

"your point..."


What? Can you enlighten me as to exactly what you want to say?

My point (I'll take a guess at your meaning) is that I find the entire..............
....no.....in factwhat is your point? Come on then. You cant join in with a nonsequitor like that. Cop out.
Come, come, surprise me with your worldly views, oh great one.


--------------------
"Must'nt Grumble!".

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OfflineHarveyWalbanger
Demiurge
Male

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 3,076
Loc: 8b
Last seen: 4 months, 17 days
Re: United States, is it all its made out to be? [Re: SummerBreeze]
    #2686030 - 05/16/04 10:13 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Jesus christ you are closed minded. We just fucking live here man, we didnt fucking build the place. We just kind of popped out of a vagina and happen to live in fucked up place.... would you yell at iraqies for living in iraq?? (hey, if you dont like how america is ruling the planet, get off the earth :P) complain about something we can change, like the war on iraq, or the president (whom 54% did not vote for). Complaining about accents and lack of culture.... what the hell is that... are you just LOOKING for shit to complain about? You know what pisses me off.... a guy who's never met me who wishes I would die because of my accent... you sir are worse than the white trash KKK I have to put up with... atleast they're not pulling a double standard...

Edited by HarveyWalbanger (05/16/04 10:15 AM)

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InvisibleSixCee
keep rolling
Male

Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 3,720
Loc: US, Chicago
Re: United States, is it all its made out to be? [Re: SummerBreeze]
    #2686421 - 05/16/04 12:34 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Make your point...


--------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-->The above statements may or not be true.
->Quote of the Moment :
"Yea. All bitches are whores who love sex." -Cubie
----> PMs checked daily.

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Invisiblejux
I'm better thanan STD!

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 924
Re: United States, is it all its made out to be? [Re: SummerBreeze]
    #2686492 - 05/16/04 12:51 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

summerbreeze, have you smoked yourself stupid or something?

Quote:
"I have books and music in my collection that date before the first (?) settlers in 'merica."
WOOP-DEE-FUCKING-DOO! No, seriously, who gives a rat's ass? You must seriously be looking pretty hard to find reasons to hate Americans if your reason seems to be that we, as a nation, are relatively new.
Well, guess what, we might only be two-hundred-and-some years old as a nation, but guess which country has the most influence in our world today? It sure as hell isn't Belgium. But who cares, after all, you guys have history!
After all, we only have "a mish mash of half remembered folk lore" (not even going into a rant about how much independent literature and folk lore, and ART that america has spawned)

WAIT, HISTORY LESSON! Time to learn about Belgiums history. "inhabited in ancient times by the Belgae, the region was part of the Roman and Carolingian empires before breaking up into a number of feudal states during the Middle Ages. The area occupied by present-day Belgium passed to the Hapsburgs in the 15th century and to the French in the 18th century. Following the defeat of Napoleon in 1815, Belgium was given to the kingdom of the Netherlands, from which it gained independence as a separate kingdom in 1830."
Yeah, definitely not a mish-mash, riiiight.
Hey, at least we've never been conquered by outside forces.

As for our history, well, let's see, in the past 200 years, we've probably altered the flow of history more than Belgium has in all its existance. The history of the people here dates back to all the european, african, south american, and asian cultures from which we originate.

Quote:
"From what (yes, yes, mass & crass media, blah, blah)I see of your illustrious ones they seem to take geat pleasure, almost a sense of pride in the fact that they have no knowledge of (these) events."

all right, see, your entire opinion is tainted. You have never actually been here, or seen what it's like on this end. Ignorance... thine name is summerbreeze.


--------------------

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Anonymous

Re: United States, is it all its made out to be? [Re: jux]
    #2687694 - 05/16/04 04:58 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

you both have good points, but common jux you are making his point by bragging about america. also summerbreeze, your the one acting pretty ignorant too. seriously, we are trying to saw that we are sorry for what we have done to many countries and its fucked up that we have to apoligize for something and someone we didnt vote on.

i honestly dont think that this country is a democracy. sure, we vote but does it mean anything? not in the last election at least. and it seems that all the people we vote for are just putting on an act to get voted in, and then do something totally opposite as to what they said they would do. you know whats even MORE fucked up? americans dont care! :rolleyes:

to show that we are ignorant, i said that amsterdam was a country while in the same paragraph i said that we are ignorant! we dont care about your country, and if you try to tell us about it and how great it is, we will stop you in mid sentence and walk away!

most of the people that i have met HATE Bush. but its still going to be a close election just because the ultra liberals refuse to vote for a democrat even if it means getting the republican out of office AND there are soo many plain RETARDED people in the US that dont give a fuck.


thank you for listening  :grin:

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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Re: United States, is it all its made out to be? [Re: ]
    #2687937 - 05/16/04 05:44 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

i honestly dont think that this country is a democracy.




Heh, that's because it isn't

Quote:

sure, we vote but does it mean anything? not in the last election at least.




It means something if it influenced the electoral colleges

It seems that in the past few presidental elections, the canidates are always so close, not like some others where you knew who would win a year before the election. The problem being, lately, it seems both the canidates are either bad politicans or plain stupid

John Kerry's problem can be summed up mainly by saying that he doesn't make himself clear. No one knows what he stands for, and the best thing he has going is that he isn't Bush (though that's good enough for me.) So people are thinking that if treats terrorism and America's problems like he treats getting his views across, no one will know what the hell he intends to do. I doubt this is true, he probably knows his own views, he's just had a bad strategy of ridiculing Bush instead of telling people what he would do differently

And SummerBreeze, don't be an idiot, many Americans are not at all like our leaders and stereotyping an entire country is both counterproductive and useless. As for not having our own art, philosophical and cultural icons, it's true if you ignore Alex Grey, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Jefferson Airplane, the Grateful Dead and countless others.

America is neither as great as it's supporters say, nor as horrible as its opponents say. Its true value lay somewhere between the two, with our politics, leaders and representatives being bad, somethings being horrible and the people being awesome except down south, where all the conservatives, KKKers and racists live  :smirk:

:whack:


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: United States, is it all its made out to be? [Re: SummerBreeze]
    #2688055 - 05/16/04 06:14 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

My country can kick your country's ass. And until that happens i suggest you take a Midol because your condition is getting out of hand.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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OfflineSummerBreeze
Phyconaughty

Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 741
Loc: Antwerpen.
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
Re: United States, is it all its made out to be? [Re: jux]
    #2695824 - 05/18/04 12:01 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Yes!

That was by far the most coherent string of posts in a thread that I've clocked on this board.
Well thought out and without the use of excessive expletives.

I don't give a flying one for your country to be completely honest.

History. History.

"Hey, at least we've never been conquered by outside forces"

Ahem. You are an outside force. Or were back in the good old days.

Yeah. That whole voting fiasco. What was that about? Is that not the inherient flaw in a Democracy? Two party rule. Or any politics, lets be honest. It's a bent game from play one.
And when both the sides are worth as much in their collective weight in shite talk and empty promises what have you to choose from?
The figures amazed me though. In a proper world common sense would prevail and some right minded person would stand up and point out that the Empire has no clothes and should step down immediately.
The only way politics works is on small scale. Individual burgs.
But then you get small burgs fighting each other and we're back to the Dark Ages.
Which may not be that bad except now we are (Nation wise) tooled up to the ballacks and gagging for a scrap.
It's not 300 warriors screaming in pain and angry as steel meets flesh. It's 30000000000+ poor saps instantly silenced in a flash.

Sad times, guys, sad times.

England is no better. Don't let me be misunderstood here. I have never stood for politics. Ireland is even worse. Belgium is (probably) one of the most corrupt countries that I've been/lived in.

Politics.

Waste of time money and lives. That's what it boils down to.

Looking at Irish politics (I may have a point extra to make on this at the end) I have always been amazed at the level of old bastards that turn up, support and vote for these freaks that then get elected and spend their time spreading the hate thicker with every term. Whipping the masses up into the traditional Summer Feest of madness, bloodshed and bigotry. It's started already.

Happy Days Toy-Town;

Sure an'Begorra!

(This is the extra point I wanted to make)

I grew up in Belfast. Stayed there till I was 24.
Left when it all got a bit to funky. Know what I mean.

I shouldn't have asked that as I'm sure there will be a post saying, "No! I don't!"

But anyway.

A lot of the pain and suffering that I witnessed growing up there was funded, supported and backed by 'merican people.

I'm not bitter at the people of your country. I'm bitter against the concept of 'merica. What it stands for. What it aims to do. What it contributes toward the good of the world while still maintaining to be a world power.

That's it.

The last 5 or 6 posts above me (although they were pretaining to me being a cunt) done more toward "opening my eyes" than any amount of empty words from monkey boy Shrub.

It's good to think that right minded people may prevail.

But we'll more than likely as not just sit in a room somewhere and get stoned while it all kicks off.

And why the fuck not?


--------------------
"Must'nt Grumble!".

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OfflineImmortalAngel
ImmortalAngel
Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 24
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
Re: United States, is it all its made out to be? [Re: Yrtlzmo]
    #2698691 - 05/18/04 09:04 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Yrtlzmo said:
This reminds me of the kids at my school, they say things like, "I love America, I would hate to live anywhere else!". When I ask why they wouldn't want to live in Europe or Canada which has more freedom but is very similar to the US, they always respond with something idiotic like, "cuz teh british hav ugly teef". Sad really, they're incredibly ignorant.




I am teaching ESL in China, a very repressed and totally unfree country, but the kids that i teach have the same views as some of the US kids, i ask them would they want to live anywhere else, and they always say no, that china is the most important country because we have such a big history, but the truth is that china's history means squat now because they had a cultural revoloution, and itis a very different place, but because they are taught from day one at school that china is this because of that.. and they pledge allegience to the communist party every morning and are taught politics in school, their politics..
to me this sounds a lot like how american children are taught, which is fine dont get me wrong, but this means that the kids are taught about everything that used to be, not neccessarily what is. they arent told that there are countries in the world that have different views, different policies that could be more effective or "better" than american society, and neither is china.
There should be pride taught and history but i dont think that kids should be brainwashed into thinking that there respective countries are the 'best in the world', when you have countries like Canada, New Zealand, The Netherlands that arent saturated with obsurd laws.


--------------------
He will devour the freshest crop...drop.

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OfflineSummerBreeze
Phyconaughty

Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 741
Loc: Antwerpen.
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
Re: United States, is it all its made out to be? [Re: SummerBreeze]
    #2700558 - 05/19/04 09:57 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

"America is just the same as any other police state..."

I missed that one at the start.

Good call.

Freedom?

Oz.

On an aside note. I watched last evening a show on the Vietnam war. With footage of combatants who took part in terrible crimes against innocents. 50 people in a ditch. Shooting them down. Then adding another 50 on top of that, etc. Machine gun at one end and two automatic rifles at the other in constant use.
One of the quotes that struck home to me from this one guy was that they (the army) would swamp a village with gunfire killing everyone. Kids. Adults. Even animals. He went on to say that the American army seemed to "grow" VC. Where there was no resistance they would go in and trail all round them. With smiles on their collective faces. This is what soliders of the day were saying on tape. After they left then the VC would appear. From the survivers. In revolt against what tey quite rightly saw as an unjust situation which needed to be addressed.
Hence why they tried to kill even the smallest child. They were determined (their words not mine) not to have to fight a war of this nature again.

Irony?

What's that some kind of metal work?


--------------------
"Must'nt Grumble!".

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