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Surfingmycelium
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Pressure cooking grains
#27004343 - 10/26/20 10:25 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hey Guys,
So I was pressure cooking grains for the first time and it ran out of water at around an hour and fifteen minutes so I put more water in and did it again for another 45 minutes. I was reading about how long to do it for and I have seen anywhere from 45 minutes to 2 hours. Am I overdoing it with the 2 hours?
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Hikeadellic
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I heard that quart sized jars take 90 mins on 15 psi
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Surfingmycelium
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Yeah, I used pint size jars since I only have a 6 qt right now. I used popcorn. They went in plump and yellow and came out dark and kinda look like they shrunk but that might be in my head. I wonder if I ruined them by putting them in too long.
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Surfingmycelium
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I think I when I took them out at the hour fifteen mark they were still yellow. 🤔
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I AM SWIM
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Better safe than sorry IMO. I also go a little bit overboard when sterilizing grain.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
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Quote:
Surfingmycelium said: Hey Guys,
So I was pressure cooking grains for the first time and it ran out of water at around an hour and fifteen minutes so I put more water in and did it again for another 45 minutes. I was reading about how long to do it for and I have seen anywhere from 45 minutes to 2 hours. Am I overdoing it with the 2 hours?
I've been running my grain at 2 hours for many years. I don't go over unless using bags and I never run for less than a 2 hour cycle with a 15 min vent.
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Big_Dub
I'm just some guy



Registered: 01/12/11
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make sure you add enough water esp if you are doing longer cycles
i PC my grain for 2.5 hrs at 15psi. also, make sure to let the PC vent for 10 mins
-------------------- split_by_nine said: click me you fuck do the right thing
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Surfingmycelium
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Re: Pressure cooking grains [Re: Big_Dub]
#27004426 - 10/26/20 11:16 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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So pint or quart jars doesn’t matter? 2 hours is okay for pint?
Vent before you put the weight on? That’s what I thought I was supposed to do but the directions that came with it said just put the weight on. Okay, I’ll do that next time. What does that actually do?
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
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It vents any pockets of trapped air that won't reach sterilization temps, it will cause incomplete sterilization if improperly vented. Vent for at least 10 before placing the weight.
If you're using a presto I believe it requires 3 quarts of water.
Sterilize both sizes at 2 hours.
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sonoramo
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If you are processing quart jars, I think it's a good idea to go for at least 90 min, and preferably two full hours at full pressure. I've run tests occasionally of processing jars and leave them on a shelf for a month without inoculating. If the jars get through the month without contamination, your process (whatever it is) is good. Otherwise, you need to process longer and make sure all the jars are well-sealed.
If you started with a reasonable amount of water in the PC and yet it's gone after less than 4 hours of processing, you are either using too much heat or you have a leaking PC (which would force you to use too much heat). Go ahead and give it full power to get up to full steam, but then back off the heat until it just hisses and maybe rocks every few seconds. If you have a gauge, you should be able to see the needle nudging up as you watch the PC come up to pressure. If the needle doesn't move perceptibly, you have a leak. If when you get to full pressure the weight is jiggling like a wounded cricket, you are using too much heat!
The cooker itself should not make a lot of noise when you are at full pressure and you have things dialed in. Try putting a towel over the weight to make it really quiet so you can hear whether it's leaking someplace else.
I ditched an old hand-me-down PC because I couldn't get it to seal even after I replaced all the seals and overpressure plug. It was just too old for new parts to fit correctly.
Edit: I'll withdraw the comment about venting because both Presto and USDA say to do it. I'm still not venting my own process because I don't have contam issues. But given I respect their authoritah, and I don't have a pile of proof,...
Edited by sonoramo (10/27/20 12:34 PM)
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pureshrooming
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venting allows the entire PC to fill with steam so there aren't any pockets of air. Any pocket of air isn't going to be getting the full sterilization of steam. As you are venting you'll hear the air spurting out randomly in between a steady stream of steam.
i do 2 hours at pressure for jars. some people will do less and have success but that extra 30m is good assurance.
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Surfingmycelium
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Re: Pressure cooking grains [Re: sonoramo]
#27004462 - 10/26/20 11:35 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have a 6 qt presto. I just received it Saturday’s. It’s the only size I can find. I saw the presto 23 qt for 250 dollars on amazon but I know they are usually around 100 so I figured I’d wait until they were available again. Not sure why there is a canner shortage but they have been sold out everywhere online and in stores since like April I think.
So I put 4 pint jars in at 2 hours. I just didn’t put enough water in the first time.
I will definitely vent the next batch which will most likely be later tonight.
Thanks so much for all your help!!!
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sonoramo
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Quote:
Surfingmycelium said: So pint or quart jars doesn’t matter? 2 hours is okay for pint?
Vent before you put the weight on? That’s what I thought I was supposed to do but the directions that came with it said just put the weight on. Okay, I’ll do that next time. What does that actually do?
Venting just complicates matters and doesn't do anything for you. Any reasonable processing time at pressure will expel most of the air anyway. By the time the total pressure gets up to 15 psi, there can't be very much air left in the PC. Just load the PC up and heat until it comes to full pressure.
One thing I usually do, though, is to start heating my PC as I'm loading it. I have a big Presto and it takes a long time for my stove to heat it, so starting out with the water and the lower parts of the cooker already hot gets it up to full pressure more quickly. I do have to be careful not to scald my hands with the steam coming off the water! If you are using a smaller PC, this probably won't matter because your stove can heat it up more quickly.
If you don't believe me, try processing a jar with an unmodified lid and the rubber seal down (touching the glass). The reason you won't be able to get the lid off without punching a hole in it or using a tool is this: All the water that boiled from inside the jar's contents expelled the air that was originally in the jar. The gas in the jar after processing is nearly 100 percent water vapor. When the PC cools back down, the water re-condenses and the pressure inside is the vapor pressure of water (less than 0.5psi).
Edit: I'll withdraw the comment about venting because both Presto and USDA say to do it. I'm still not venting my own process because I don't have contam issues. But given I respect their authoritah, and I don't have a pile of proof,...
Edited by sonoramo (10/27/20 12:37 PM)
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Stipe-n Cap


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Re: Pressure cooking grains [Re: sonoramo] 1
#27004498 - 10/26/20 11:48 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Venting fucking matters, don't listen to that.
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pureshrooming
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Re: Pressure cooking grains [Re: sonoramo]
#27004500 - 10/26/20 11:49 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Keep an eye out at thrift stores, facebook marketplace, yard sales, or craigslist and I bet a 23 qt will pop up. I see them pretty frequently and you can replace all the worn out pieces pretty cheap.
Quote:
sonoramo said:
Quote:
Surfingmycelium said: So pint or quart jars doesn’t matter? 2 hours is okay for pint?
Vent before you put the weight on? That’s what I thought I was supposed to do but the directions that came with it said just put the weight on. Okay, I’ll do that next time. What does that actually do?
Venting just complicates matters and doesn't do anything for you. Any reasonable processing time at pressure will expel most of the air anyway. By the time the total pressure gets up to 15 psi, there can't be very much air left in the PC. Just load the PC up and heat until it comes to full pressure.
One thing I usually do, though, is to start heating my PC as I'm loading it. I have a big Presto and it takes a long time for my stove to heat it, so starting out with the water and the lower parts of the cooker already hot gets it up to full pressure more quickly. I do have to be careful not to scald my hands with the steam coming off the water! If you are using a smaller PC, this probably won't matter because your stove can heat it up more quickly.
If you don't believe me, try processing a jar with an unmodified lid and the rubber seal down (touching the glass). The reason you won't be able to get the lid off without punching a hole in it or using a tool is this: All the water that boiled from inside the jar's contents expelled the air that was originally in the jar. The gas in the jar after processing is nearly 100 percent water vapor. When the PC cools back down, the water re-condenses and the pressure inside is the vapor pressure of water (less than 0.5psi).
Not only does the manufacturer say venting is required for proper sterilization, it has been shown in practice to make a huge difference in success. It doesn't complicate anything. It it is 10 extra minutes.
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Stipe-n Cap


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Tight Lunchbox
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Re: Pressure cooking grains [Re: sonoramo]
#27004546 - 10/26/20 12:22 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
p9hu7 said: Venting fucking matters, don't listen to that.
-------------------- "it's all a joke between mom contractions and coffin fittings" The most useful tool for noobs
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Big_Dub
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in my presto PC manual, it says to vent
-------------------- split_by_nine said: click me you fuck do the right thing
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Lieutenant Pan
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Re: Pressure cooking grains [Re: Big_Dub]
#27004795 - 10/26/20 02:44 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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If you're pressure cooking how are you able to add more water? You can't even open the lid until the pressure goes back down, and if you know anything about cooking...you know if that gauge goes under 15psi your 190 minute timer restarts.
Cooks usually need 1 hour total, but RR says to add another 30 minutes for good measure. Your jars should be good to go bro.
-------------------- I never thanked ya fer saving my life.
Edited by Lieutenant Pan (10/26/20 02:45 PM)
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Surfingmycelium
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Quote:
Lieutenant Pan said: If you're pressure cooking how are you able to add more water? You can't even open the lid until the pressure goes back down, and if you know anything about cooking...you know if that gauge goes under 15psi your 190 minute timer restarts.
Cooks usually need 1 hour total, but RR says to add another 30 minutes for good measure. Your jars should be good to go bro.
I noticed the rocker stopped moving so I shut off the heat and took off the weight and vented the steam. Once it unlocked I took the jars out and added more water then brought it back up to pressure for another 45.
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Lieutenant Pan
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Yeah if you go below 15PSI at all for 90 mins you gotta start the timer over there bud.
-------------------- I never thanked ya fer saving my life.
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Stipe-n Cap


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You don't have to start from scratch, just make up for the lost time. It's not like dipping below 15 psi for 5 mins when you're already 60 mins in sets you back to zero. Different story obviously if you stop the cycle to take the lid off.
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Lieutenant Pan
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hey I didn't make the rules you want to pressure cook you do as they tell ya. 15PSI for 90 straight minutes.
-------------------- I never thanked ya fer saving my life.
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Stipe-n Cap


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Thats not a rule, its common sense. You don't lose sterilization time.
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Surfingmycelium
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Well I did 75 minutes then took the lid off and then did another 45 minutes to equal 120. Hopefully I’m okay.
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Big_Dub
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thats not quite how it works. doesnt mean that it wont work for you, but dont expect long term success doing this.
either get a bigger pressure cooker, or cook less grain. PCs are really safe if you use them the right way
-------------------- split_by_nine said: click me you fuck do the right thing
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Lieutenant Pan
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Re: Pressure cooking grains [Re: Big_Dub]
#27006199 - 10/27/20 11:57 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm glad none of you work in the medical industry since you don't understand how sterilization works. Last thing I need is major infection because ya'll couldn't clean your tools lol.
-------------------- I never thanked ya fer saving my life.
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Stipe-n Cap


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Quote:
Lieutenant Pan said: I'm glad none of you work in the medical industry since you don't understand how sterilization works. Last thing I need is major infection because ya'll couldn't clean your tools lol.
Its not the same. Plus I said that if you stop the cycle to remove the lid it's different.
Having the needle dip below 15 for a short period of time does not reset your sterilization time to zero. Removing the lid to add more water is not how it's done.
Do you honestly think that the microbes that have succumbed to the heat and pressure would miraculously multiply or become impervious during a 5 min reduction in temp and pressure?
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sonoramo
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Quote:
p9hu7 said: The importance of venting:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25493951
Thanks for the link. Yes, the Presto manual says to vent it. So does USDA's web site. I still have a problem with the claim about venting, because venting won't do anything to expel air from inside your jars. The only way for that to happen is by boiling off liquid inside. I totally agree that air trapped inside the pressure cooker (or the jars) suppresses the partial pressure of water vapor and therefore the boiling point of the water in the cooker's bottom. Where I differ is that I don't believe air can be "trapped" in the pressure cooker. Convection inside the cooker is turbulent, and the air gets expelled along with the escaping water vapor. There's no reason to think that air is any less trapped when vapor escapes at ambient pressure than twice ambient (15 psi being about atmospheric). There's also no reason to think water vapor conducts heat better than air does, because its molecular weight is significantly lower (H2O vs N2+O2).
The thing is, I've never vented for 10 minutes, and I've never had issues with uninoculated jars contaminating. Maybe this is just a matter of how long you process. If you process only a short time, I suppose the air might not get expelled. But for grains, you really need a longer process time to get the center of the jars or bags to full temperature.
In any case, I withdraw my comment because I respect the USDA's authoritah and I'm not even sure how to "prove" they are wrong.
USDA's page: https://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/uga/using_press_canners.html
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Lieutenant Pan
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Re: Pressure cooking grains [Re: sonoramo]
#27006322 - 10/27/20 01:02 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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There is a reason they keep it at 15psi it's called sterilization. Granted you'll never 100% sterilize substrate. It's like explaining to you why people breathe oxygen. I'm done.
-------------------- I never thanked ya fer saving my life.
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Stipe-n Cap


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Quote:
Lieutenant Pan said: There is a reason they keep it at 15psi it's called sterilization. Granted you'll never 100% sterilize substrate. It's like explaining to you why people breathe oxygen. I'm done.
Lol, how embarrassing
Listen, man....
You can sterilize with atmospheric pressure at 100°C. Sterilization does not cease to take place when the needle on your gauge drops below 15, the needle could drop to zero and still be undergoing sterilization so long as it maintains an internal temperature of 100°C; therefore you absolutely 100% do not need to restart your timer to zero if the pressure drops below 15 psi, at worst you would simply increase the time as apposed to restarting. Shit, you probably could take the fuckin lid off and then just continue the cycle now that I think about it.(though I wouldn't recommend it)
This is irrefutable science. You are dead wrong. Don't traipse around the boards handing out false info to noobs.
Quote:
Lieutenant Pan said: There is a reason they keep it at 15psi
The reason we run cycles at 15psi is because the pressure increases the temperature of water above 100°C. The increase in temp and pressure shortens the time necessary to complete a cycle. Atmospheric sterilization takes place at zero psi and at the natural temperature of steam. The cycle is longer with atmospheric sterilization but sterilization still occurs at zero psi
Edited by Stipe-n Cap (10/27/20 02:50 PM)
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sonoramo
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Quote:
Surfingmycelium said:
I noticed the rocker stopped moving so I shut off the heat and took off the weight and vented the steam. Once it unlocked I took the jars out and added more water then brought it back up to pressure for another 45.
I'd recommend against removing the vent at the end of your cycle. Sure, we're all in a hurry. If you have agar or LC inside, it will boil furiously (been there, done that). The boiling can foul your gas exchange filter or make a mess inside the PC. Grains probably don't give you that problem, but you do want to avoid putting a lot of pressure on your gas-exchange filters, and that's likely to happen if the jar contents are still hot and you drop the pressure before they cool down.
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Surfingmycelium
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Re: Pressure cooking grains [Re: sonoramo]
#27006546 - 10/27/20 03:00 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
sonoramo said:
Quote:
Surfingmycelium said:
I'd recommend against removing the vent at the end of your cycle. Sure, we're all in a hurry. If you have agar or LC inside, it will boil furiously (been there, done that). The boiling can foul your gas exchange filter or make a mess inside the PC. Grains probably don't give you that problem, but you do want to avoid putting a lot of pressure on your gas-exchange filters, and that's likely to happen if the jar contents are still hot and you drop the pressure before they cool down.
Yeah, the only reason I did that was because when it stopped rocking I realized I didn’t put enough water in and I wanted to get water back in as fast as possible. Normally I’d just let the pressure come down on its own.
Good to know about the LC and agar though. Now I really will never do that again. Lol
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