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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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How do you feel about California's prop 22?
    #26998993 - 10/23/20 01:32 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Yes means you want rideshare and postmates type of workers to be paid as independent contractors. No means you want them paid as employees. It's unskilled work, they should be paid as employees. I hate these app companies that call themselves "tech" companies but really they provide a low unskilled service.


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Edited by OutsideOfMyMind (10/23/20 02:00 AM)


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Offlinekoods
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Re: How do you feel about California's prop 22? [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #26999004 - 10/23/20 01:48 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I’d vote no on all my ballots


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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: How do you feel about California's prop 22? [Re: koods]
    #26999011 - 10/23/20 01:54 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I’d vote no on all my ballots



I like your thinking.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: How do you feel about California's prop 22? [Re: OutsideOfMyMind] * 2
    #26999041 - 10/23/20 03:03 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OutsideOfMyMind said:
Yes means you want rideshare and postmates type of workers to be paid as independent contractors. No means you want them paid as employees. It's unskilled work, they should be paid as employees. I hate these app companies that call themselves "tech" companies but really they provide a low unskilled service.




The thing with all these worker protection bills is the the Democrats have good but very naive intentions. Previously the law makers  did these policies to protect employees, so business made employees into temps (I did a masters thesis on this in 1997). It was mainly to avoid paying them benefits, mainly healthcare.  Now they want to prevent them from being classified as temps. I don't know exactly what maneuvers the capitalists will use, but they will easily get around this, and they will do it legally.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: How do you feel about California's prop 22? [Re: OutsideOfMyMind] * 3
    #26999236 - 10/23/20 07:34 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OutsideOfMyMind said:
Yes means you want rideshare and postmates type of workers to be paid as independent contractors. No means you want them paid as employees.



This isn't exactly true.  No means you want their status to be determined like anyone else's status.  Under the current standard, yes...that would make them employees.  Standards do change, though.

I'm voting no.  Making exceptions for tech companies to make more money at the expense of average people is not good policy.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: How do you feel about California's prop 22? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26999599 - 10/23/20 12:00 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
The thing with all these worker protection bills is the the Democrats have good but very naive intentions. Previously the law makers  did these policies to protect employees, so business made employees into temps (I did a masters thesis on this in 1997). It was mainly to avoid paying them benefits, mainly healthcare.  Now they want to prevent them from being classified as temps. I don't know exactly what maneuvers the capitalists will use, but they will easily get around this, and they will do it legally.



So you think it's good to turn employees into temps so businesses can avoid paying them benefits?  :wtf:

I voted "no".


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: How do you feel about California's prop 22? [Re: Enlil]
    #26999603 - 10/23/20 12:01 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I'm voting no.  Making exceptions for tech companies to make more money at the expense of average people is not good policy.



:whathesaid:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: How do you feel about California's prop 22? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26999617 - 10/23/20 12:10 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Temp or no temp is a very complex decision. I cannot in good conscience say that being a temp is inherent worse than an employee, because oftentimes being a temp could be better than being a part timer.

In this particular case, I'd probably go with no.


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OfflineMach z 800
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Re: How do you feel about California's prop 22? [Re: Kryptos]
    #27001637 - 10/24/20 05:43 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Temp or no temp is a very complex decision. I cannot in good conscience say that being a temp is inherent worse than an employee, because oftentimes being a temp could be better than being a part timer.

In this particular case, I'd probably go with no.


it comes down to what benefits your job can offer you as a temp. Some places hook up as a temp.other place you gotta be employed to get goods.its hairy situation .


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: How do you feel about California's prop 22? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27001709 - 10/24/20 06:45 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
The thing with all these worker protection bills is the the Democrats have good but very naive intentions. Previously the law makers  did these policies to protect employees, so business made employees into temps (I did a masters thesis on this in 1997). It was mainly to avoid paying them benefits, mainly healthcare.  Now they want to prevent them from being classified as temps. I don't know exactly what maneuvers the capitalists will use, but they will easily get around this, and they will do it legally.



So you think it's good to turn employees into temps so businesses can avoid paying them benefits?  :wtf:

I voted "no".




I have no idea what you are talking about, but that's becoming the norm lately.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: How do you feel about California's prop 22? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27001916 - 10/24/20 09:39 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
The thing with all these worker protection bills is the the Democrats have good but very naive intentions. Previously the law makers  did these policies to protect employees, so business made employees into temps (I did a masters thesis on this in 1997). It was mainly to avoid paying them benefits, mainly healthcare.  Now they want to prevent them from being classified as temps. I don't know exactly what maneuvers the capitalists will use, but they will easily get around this, and they will do it legally.



So you think it's good to turn employees into temps so businesses can avoid paying them benefits?  :wtf:

I voted "no".




I have no idea what you are talking about, but that's becoming the norm lately.



I guess maybe I didn't understand what you were saying.  You said "business made employees into temps", "It was mainly to avoid paying them benefits, mainly healthcare."  So far, I think I follow and agree.

Then you said "Now they want to prevent them from being classified as temps."  Who did you mean by "they"?  I thought prop 22 would exempt gig companies from classifying their workers as regular employees?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisiblebreeg89
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Re: How do you feel about California's prop 22? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27001919 - 10/24/20 09:44 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Pretty easy no on this one.


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OfflineJizzMasterZero
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Re: How do you feel about California's prop 22? [Re: breeg89]
    #27001995 - 10/24/20 11:30 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

The example I heard involved a guy that is was a singer/songwriter. He would get hired for a few gigs and go out and find a drummer and a bass player. But the new ruling was going to make that difficult because in the past he could just say “Hey, can you come play in my band Friday night, I’ll give you $200”. So does this guy now have to offer healthcare incentives and a 401K just to get a drummer and a bass player to play at a wedding?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: How do you feel about California's prop 22? [Re: JizzMasterZero]
    #27002015 - 10/24/20 11:43 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

No, prop 22 only applies to app-based transportation and delivery companies.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: How do you feel about California's prop 22? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27002065 - 10/25/20 01:17 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
The thing with all these worker protection bills is the the Democrats have good but very naive intentions. Previously the law makers  did these policies to protect employees, so business made employees into temps (I did a masters thesis on this in 1997). It was mainly to avoid paying them benefits, mainly healthcare.  Now they want to prevent them from being classified as temps. I don't know exactly what maneuvers the capitalists will use, but they will easily get around this, and they will do it legally.



So you think it's good to turn employees into temps so businesses can avoid paying them benefits?  :wtf:

I voted "no".




I have no idea what you are talking about, but that's becoming the norm lately.



I guess maybe I didn't understand what you were saying.  You said "business made employees into temps", "It was mainly to avoid paying them benefits, mainly healthcare."  So far, I think I follow and agree.

Then you said "Now they want to prevent them from being classified as temps."  Who did you mean by "they"?  I thought prop 22 would exempt gig companies from classifying their workers as regular employees?




Sorry for lack of clarity. "They" meant California. It wouldn't make any sense for business to not want them to be be temps.

When I was in the Labor and Industrial Relations program I had a lot of discussions with this professor, he was a lawyer, and he was regularly testifying in congress. I said there was this 'stupid dance' going on. Democrats create legislation to benefit workers and it takes business about 15 seconds to find a loophole to circumvent the whole thing. He was still optimistic about the process, but that was when Robert Reich was the Secretary of Labor, and by today's standards he's a socialist.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: How do you feel about California's prop 22? [Re: Brian Jones] * 3
    #27002080 - 10/25/20 01:34 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I'm against temp employees. It's just another bullshit loophole for greedy companies to not give employees what they deserve:



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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: How do you feel about California's prop 22? [Re: JizzMasterZero]
    #27002341 - 10/25/20 08:30 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

JizzMasterZero said:
The example I heard involved a guy that is was a singer/songwriter. He would get hired for a few gigs and go out and find a drummer and a bass player. But the new ruling was going to make that difficult because in the past he could just say “Hey, can you come play in my band Friday night, I’ll give you $200”. So does this guy now have to offer healthcare incentives and a 401K just to get a drummer and a bass player to play at a wedding?



Prop 22 is solely about creating an exception for application-based drivers.  It doesn't change anyone else's employment status.


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