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ataribravo
Magic Myc

Registered: 08/07/20
Posts: 75
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Spawn bags seem wetter after PCing than before
#26994216 - 10/20/20 09:31 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am getting (at least what some people are telling me is) bacterial contam ( and occasional trich) in my colonized spawn bags, but I have also read other posts where the consensus is the bags look good to go and look just like mine. I am wondering if too much moisture is the cause. I dry my grains (oats and rye) until they're dry to the touch. I bag them, usually 3 quarts to a bag, Place a tyvek sleeve down the middle and try to remove all air when performing a triple fold. I then masking tape the left and right sides down (I have read some people use rubber bands or skip this altogether). I place bags in a Presto and PC for 3 hours at 15psi.
When I remove the bags the grains are darker (which is expected) but there seems to be a lot of moisture in the bag (at least a more than before the PC). Is this normal or a sign of doing something wrong?
Once cooled I use LI (about 30-40ml) to inoculate the bag then seal it with wire and shake to distribute the LI. I know too much moisture can facilitate mold and the grains are as dry as I can get them before bagging.
Last note, I do use good sterile tek. Boil instruments to sterilize, wipe area down with ISO, wear gloves-tyvek sleeves-mask and all done in front of a flow hood. The room temp while colonizing is between 68 and 72 degrees.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
EDIT: Just added what the bins using these bags look like now after 10 days. Do they look okay?
  
Edited by ataribravo (10/20/20 10:01 AM)
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ataribravo
Magic Myc

Registered: 08/07/20
Posts: 75
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: Spawn bags seem wetter after PCing than before [Re: ataribravo]
#26995313 - 10/20/20 08:01 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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** Bump **
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trippytimes
♡contamination queen♡



Registered: 09/02/14
Posts: 1,097
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Spawn bags seem wetter after PCing than before [Re: ataribravo]
#26995494 - 10/20/20 10:17 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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This happens alot to me tbh it's your over hydrate the grains... I started just dumping a 50lb sack in a 160qt tub and fill it with water let it soak for 48 hours then strain and bag. Worked great for me. No busted grains no over hydrate. Bags is a art. People won't tell you this but bags are very very hard compared to jars. Jars are forgiving bags will make a sticky mess... I just soak for 48 hours then come back squish the grain if it Squishies easily then it's ready I load it a little wet because the pc run will hydrate them more also try upping your time by 30 mins I do 3hours and 30 mins and my grains turn out really dry but still have water inside.
Edited by trippytimes (10/20/20 10:17 PM)
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ataribravo
Magic Myc

Registered: 08/07/20
Posts: 75
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: Spawn bags seem wetter after PCing than before [Re: trippytimes]
#26995961 - 10/21/20 08:58 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
trippytimes said: This happens alot to me tbh it's your over hydrate the grains... I started just dumping a 50lb sack in a 160qt tub and fill it with water let it soak for 48 hours then strain and bag. Worked great for me. No busted grains no over hydrate. Bags is a art. People won't tell you this but bags are very very hard compared to jars. Jars are forgiving bags will make a sticky mess... I just soak for 48 hours then come back squish the grain if it Squishies easily then it's ready I load it a little wet because the pc run will hydrate them more also try upping your time by 30 mins I do 3hours and 30 mins and my grains turn out really dry but still have water inside.
Thank you for the info! I HATE the idea of going back to jars, but maybe that's my only choice. I just can't figure out why bags are so difficult. It seems the only difference is literally the jar (glass) vs. the bag (plastic). The grain is prepared the same way, both are PC'ed and inoculated the same way. The only other difference I can see is the volume of grain (1qt vs 3qts). Ugh... Oh, and now that I resign myself to going back to jars, NOBODY HAS ANY!
Edited by ataribravo (10/21/20 09:12 AM)
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pureshrooming
feels like a stranger


Registered: 05/28/18
Posts: 321
Last seen: 15 days, 21 hours
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Re: Spawn bags seem wetter after PCing than before [Re: ataribravo]
#26996099 - 10/21/20 10:22 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Have you tried raising the bags up in the PC away from the water? Might be how water is getting in if you aren't presealing. I'm about to start bags myself so I don't have the first hand experience but that is something I've read can happen.
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ataribravo
Magic Myc

Registered: 08/07/20
Posts: 75
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: Spawn bags seem wetter after PCing than before [Re: pureshrooming]
#26996188 - 10/21/20 11:07 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
pureshrooming said: Have you tried raising the bags up in the PC away from the water? Might be how water is getting in if you aren't presealing. I'm about to start bags myself so I don't have the first hand experience but that is something I've read can happen.
Yes, the bags are at least an inch above the waterline. I just watched a video where someone put un-hydrated grain into a jar with water up to the top of the grain and PC'ed it. They showed a before and after and the after looked like perfectly hydrated grain.
I'm wondering if my grain is too hydrated before PC'ing and the excess is getting squeezed out from the pressure. I think getting the grain at a perfect moisture contnent, before PC'ing, is critical to success. The problem is I have read so many different methods that all claim to work, I don't know what to try or believe.
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trippytimes
♡contamination queen♡



Registered: 09/02/14
Posts: 1,097
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Spawn bags seem wetter after PCing than before [Re: ataribravo]
#26996322 - 10/21/20 12:36 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ataribravo said:
Quote:
trippytimes said: This happens alot to me tbh it's your over hydrate the grains... I started just dumping a 50lb sack in a 160qt tub and fill it with water let it soak for 48 hours then strain and bag. Worked great for me. No busted grains no over hydrate. Bags is a art. People won't tell you this but bags are very very hard compared to jars. Jars are forgiving bags will make a sticky mess... I just soak for 48 hours then come back squish the grain if it Squishies easily then it's ready I load it a little wet because the pc run will hydrate them more also try upping your time by 30 mins I do 3hours and 30 mins and my grains turn out really dry but still have water inside.
Thank you for the info! I HATE the idea of going back to jars, but maybe that's my only choice. I just can't figure out why bags are so difficult. It seems the only difference is literally the jar (glass) vs. the bag (plastic). The grain is prepared the same way, both are PC'ed and inoculated the same way. The only other difference I can see is the volume of grain (1qt vs 3qts). Ugh... Oh, and now that I resign myself to going back to jars, NOBODY HAS ANY! 
I'm telling you. If you just soak oats for 48 hours you don't even have to boil them. I let them strain for about 30 minutes. Then PCM they turn out perfect every time. I love all these quick oats teks. But it seems with bags it does not work so well at least for me. I would rather just dump a 50 lb sack into a giant tote and let it soak for 2 days and then come back and run 16 to 20 bags and know that they're hydrated very well inside and the endospores had plenty of time. You should give it a try. I'm about to write a tek on it for people who are not in a rush. If you are in a rush you could always boil it and let it sit out for 6 hours to get the surface very dry. I only cycle about 10 jars and 20 bags a week. I can run all the PC daily 10 bags can be done in my 75X and my 25X. I run them before I go to bed. Then around noon I start inoculating.
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