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Offlineedgar1337
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I'm handsome, a body builder, and STILL can't find a woman * 1
    #26993015 - 10/19/20 01:35 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

When my girlfriend of 5 years dumped me via text message, I was broken. It didn't take long for the loneliness to hit. I soon decided I would make myself as appealing to women as possible, no matter how long that took or how much work it required.

3 years ago I got into body building. Now I'm at 9% body fat, have a 6-pack, sculpted arms, square pecs, strong glutes and legs, but it still isn't enough. I started tanning to get that nice olive colored Mediterranean tan (I'm Italian), then I started using facial cremes to get my complexion perfect. It still wasn't enough.

At the gym or grocery store I catch women checking me out all the time. I know that doesn't mean they are interested, just that they are just attracted to me. But it doesn't matter. I'm too much of a coward to approach any of them or initiate dialogue. I thought getting shredded would help boost my confidence. And some days I feel like a badass. But its not consistent enough to help. Most days, I still feel inadequate and unworthy of a woman.


Does anyone have any advice for me? I feel like I'm cursed, or have some unseen energy that women have an aversion to.



Obviously this thread makes me sound vapid and shallow, and I probably am. But the loneliness is so bad, I decided to improve the one thing I have control of; my bodily form. I don't care how vain I am, as long as it helps me find a mate. In a cruel twist of irony, I am consistently hit on or pursued by gay men. I have no interest in this, but its damn frustrating. If only, in Western culture, women were as forward as men in romance. Interacting with women I have no romantic interest in causes no anxiety or fear. But any women I have romantic interest/intentions with, I avoid like the plague. I don't want her to even know I exist. I fear doing or saying something that will disqualify me somehow, or make her think I am (insert undesirable trait.)



Then there is the fear of being seen as a misogynist or predator. I live in a super woke area. My University made all students take a "Sexual Harassment and Inclusion" test that was mandatory to enroll in the spring semester. In it, it explained that complimenting women, pursuing women romantically, and other seemingly innocuous dimensions of human sexuality are predatory and misogynistic. It gave scenarios, and asked how you would react and report them.

One scenario was a man telling a woman she had "beautiful eyes" - the question was "how would you intervene if you saw this happen?" which insinuates that such a compliment is so bad it warrants reporting to university officials. So now I have the fear that approaching women for romantic purposes will make me a "creeper" or "pervert." It feels hopeless. It makes me resent feminist dogma, and I feel alienated from women simply because I don't want to be labelled as some deviant for wanting an intimate relationship.


--------------------

"Mistakes are, after all, the foundations of truth, and if a man does not know what a thing is, it is at least an increase in knowledge if he knows what it is not."

-Carl Jung


"The current state of knowledge is a moment in history, changing just as rapidly as the state of knowledge in the past has ever changed and, in many instances, more rapidly."
-Jean Piaget


Edited by edgar1337 (10/19/20 01:40 PM)


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: I'm handsome, a body builder, and STILL can't find a woman [Re: edgar1337] * 1
    #26993504 - 10/19/20 07:11 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I literally dropped out last semester because I refused to do the Sexual Harassment and Inclusion" test.

I took a stand, I mean, how can they stop me from enrolling in my final year because of something that’s not even curriculum related?

Make it a class or something legit....but not this bullshit.  In the past 5 years this is the one thing I put my foot down on and said no.  It’s messed up.  I get that some people could benefit from the education on those subjects....but really....cmon.  What of those already raised and living with them in principle?!  Why can’t I enroll in classes unless I take a non curriculum class and exam?  Anyways...

Sorry for jacking your thread.  Keep looking man, go out on all the limbs and don’t avert from those you have feelings for - lean into it & see where it takes you after a while of practice.  We only have a short life & it really hurts to be lonely for so long, so get over whatever is in the way and do what you’ve got to do to find someone to love.  Just be you till there’s nothing left.  Don’t give up!


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Offlinefraki58
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Re: I'm handsome, a body builder, and STILL can't find a woman [Re: The Blind Ass] * 2
    #26994635 - 10/20/20 01:55 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Bro, if you are already ripped then start working on what's on your mind, if you seem interesting (cool hobbys, good chitchatting, avid listener, cool to hang out with) then you will find the one eventually, just, don't actively search for a relationship and it will come i promise. Being interesting is pretty much it, ripped or not (ripped is always better if it suits you and makes you hotter lol).
As to the sexual harassment deal, just flow with it, people are not always waiting someone to say something to them so they can report them to the uni. Just stay within the lines of common sense of course.
Feminism is coming and everyone should embrace it at some point, it seems bad because it puts in perspective all of the 'natural' man stuff and believes. If you are open, then man,woman it doesn't matter bro, we all people and that's what matters!

Hope this helps you, peace man, hope you find someone who makes you happy :wink:


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If any of the said above is incorrect, please correct me! Still learning here and constructive criticism is the best :smile:


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: I'm handsome, a body builder, and STILL can't find a woman [Re: edgar1337] * 5
    #26994674 - 10/20/20 02:14 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

edgar1337 said:
I'm too much of a coward to approach any of them or initiate dialogue.



This is your core problem right here. It has nothing to do with your looks, personality, etc. Your problem is just that you have difficulty talking to women. You just need to learn to talk to women. Don't just do this anywhere, try to find a socially acceptable place like a bar. You'll end up making a lot of mistakes and getting lots of rejection at first, but that's life, it's a learning experience and you'll get better over time.

Don't just compliment them, no one wants to hear that. Talk to them about actual stuff, anything, stuff you care about. Ask them about their day, their life, try to hold a real conversation with them about real topics. It's hard, but that's what you have to do.

You could totally stop body building and everything else you do, and instead just work on talking to women, and if you just did that you'd get 100 times more success than you are now. Your problem is literally just that you need to learn to talk to women.


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Offlineyeah
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Re: I'm handsome, a body builder, and STILL can't find a woman [Re: fraki58]
    #26995520 - 10/20/20 10:36 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fraki58 said:
if you seem interesting (cool hobbys, good chitchatting, avid listener, cool to hang out with) then you will find the one eventually, just, don't actively search for a relationship and it will come i promise.




doubt


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: I'm handsome, a body builder, and STILL can't find a woman [Re: yeah]
    #26995521 - 10/20/20 10:37 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Doubt?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineGeinstein
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Re: I'm handsome, a body builder, and STILL can't find a woman [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26995529 - 10/20/20 11:19 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Easy fix your outlook on life
And actually talk to a women


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Nothing breads nothing


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OfflineBeardedWizard
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Re: I'm handsome, a body builder, and STILL can't find a woman [Re: Geinstein]
    #26995530 - 10/20/20 11:21 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

3 to 4 grams krat gets me real chatty


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: I'm handsome, a body builder, and STILL can't find a woman [Re: edgar1337]
    #26997010 - 10/21/20 08:50 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Check out this story by Kryptos, it should help guide you on a possible method to develop your woman-socializing skills: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26978584#26978584


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Offlineyeah
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Re: I'm handsome, a body builder, and STILL can't find a woman [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26997172 - 10/21/20 11:38 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Check out this story by Kryptos, it should help guide you on a possible method to develop your woman-socializing skills: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26978584#26978584




I read that. Women don't really want to be talked to while they're working in my experience.
Just the other day a female coworker ranted about how she hates it...


--------------------


Edited by yeah (10/21/20 11:39 PM)


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: I'm handsome, a body builder, and STILL can't find a woman [Re: yeah]
    #26998303 - 10/22/20 04:45 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah, that is true but not universal. Ive had women flirt with me when they were working. Just depends on what mood they are in and if feels appropriate to flirt with a woman while shes working :shrug:

Once you can read body language and voice inflections, its pretty easy to tell when its appropriate or not.


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OfflineUranusslut
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Re: I'm handsome, a body builder, and STILL can't find a woman [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 2
    #26998673 - 10/22/20 08:55 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Women probably find you attractive but that doesn't mean they are willing to make the first move. Speaking from experience good looking men can be intimidating as polite as they may be. My advice to you is just go for it but do it in a genuine manner.


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Offlineedgar1337
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Re: I'm handsome, a body builder, and STILL can't find a woman [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #26998876 - 10/22/20 11:31 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
I literally dropped out last semester because I refused to do the Sexual Harassment and Inclusion" test.

I took a stand, I mean, how can they stop me from enrolling in my final year because of something that’s not even curriculum related?

Make it a class or something legit....but not this bullshit.  In the past 5 years this is the one thing I put my foot down on and said no.  It’s messed up.  I get that some people could benefit from the education on those subjects....but really....cmon.  What of those already raised and living with them in principle?!  Why can’t I enroll in classes unless I take a non curriculum class and exam?  Anyways...

Sorry for jacking your thread.  Keep looking man, go out on all the limbs and don’t avert from those you have feelings for - lean into it & see where it takes you after a while of practice.  We only have a short life & it really hurts to be lonely for so long, so get over whatever is in the way and do what you’ve got to do to find someone to love.  Just be you till there’s nothing left.  Don’t give up!



Yup, my university wouldn't let me enroll in the Spring semester unless I did it. It basically advocated a very aggressive and confrontational attitude, where you are supposed to confront someone who compliments a woman - or at least that is implied. If it is asking you HOW you would intervene, it is preemptively and covertly establishing that you are expected to intervene in every pedestrian romantic encounter you see.

One of the "warning signals" for sexual assault was a "man grabbing a woman's hand." So if you see some dude touch a woman, you should just assume he is trying to abduct and rape her, instead of the more likely possibility that they are an item. Its more woke "rape culture" dogma. An alternate dimension where its totally fine to profile and stereotype males as violent sexual predators, and men roam the campus looking for women to rape 24/7.

I'm not going to blame culture for my own failures, but if their goal was to alienate men from women, it worked. I'm afraid of even approaching women with romantic intentions, lest I be labelled a predator for not wanting to be alone.


--------------------

"Mistakes are, after all, the foundations of truth, and if a man does not know what a thing is, it is at least an increase in knowledge if he knows what it is not."

-Carl Jung


"The current state of knowledge is a moment in history, changing just as rapidly as the state of knowledge in the past has ever changed and, in many instances, more rapidly."
-Jean Piaget


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Invisibletrees
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Re: I'm handsome, a body builder, and STILL can't find a woman [Re: edgar1337] * 1
    #26998928 - 10/23/20 12:18 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

edgar1337 said:


Does anyone have any advice for me? I feel like I'm cursed, or have some unseen energy that women have an aversion to.







Just work on your only problem, your compulsive fear. You should try meditating on subjects such as; how your fears are irrational, dumb even, you can laugh at yourself about it, try to imagine vividly how what its like to just not give a single shit and be fearless when talking to women. How laugh and be at ease. Talking about anything at all. Really imagine yourself doing it like that in your head, and keep these thoughts percolating in your head for days or weeks or for months without forgetting it, and keep putting yourself in positions of talking to any people in general, while keeping in mind how you dont need to worry about anything. Keep reaffirming in your head that every little things gonna be aiite when talking to women or anyone. Theres no risk at all youre not putting yourself to the test or anything, ever. Thats one way to start rewiring your brain

That wiring of the brain to compulsively fear IS the unseen energy that everyone has an aversion to. Very few women care or select a guy based on the level of his physique.

It seems the most important thing when meeting new women is that they feel completely at ease when interacting wth you. Your current but crushable problem probably puts you at the furthest most opposite end of the spectrum in that regard


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Anonymous #1

Re: I'm handsome, a body builder, and STILL can't find a woman [Re: edgar1337] * 3
    #26999339 - 10/23/20 09:03 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Man this really speaks to me. Feel like it’s me making the OP.... your fear is 100% what you need to work on to overcome this. And others said, there will be lots of rejection. It’s tricky too, cause women can give so many mixed signals. As can guys for that matter. I’ve been unintentionally celibate for a long time, and that’s been the number one source of dissatisfaction & unhappiness in my life. I’ve recently decided to embrace it. I’ve lived a life searching for things outside of myself to make me happy & bring me peace.....and that’s never worked out. Sex & relationships are also outside of myself. I’ve decided that my goal now is to find this peace & happiness within myself, and eschew the pursuit of romance & sex. My biggest fear is that I’d get everything I want & feel that I need in life & still be unhappy. A relationship is the last of the things that I haven’t obtained....and lo behold, I’m unhappy. I feel that its more likely that I could find love, and still be in the same boat than it is that my life will suddenly be great. If I can’t find this within, I’m not gonna find it with someone else. So that’s where I’m at with it all. But if you’re trying to find love, it’s that fear & the negative self-talk, second guessing, etc...that you need to overcome. If you don’t, you’ll be in this same predicament for years. And the longer it goes on, the harder it is to break out of it.


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Offlineyeah
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Re: I'm handsome, a body builder, and STILL can't find a woman [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #26999568 - 10/23/20 11:36 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Have you lost your sex drive or something? It's pretty hard to be at one with the universe when your body is sending you signals that you severely need to nut...


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Anonymous #1

Re: I'm handsome, a body builder, and STILL can't find a woman [Re: yeah] * 1
    #26999619 - 10/23/20 12:12 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

No I haven’t, but success with this requires being at peace with the acceptance of, but not clinging to thoughts & feelings. Obviously not something that’s easy, but in the long run would be worthwhile


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Offlineedgar1337
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Re: I'm handsome, a body builder, and STILL can't find a woman [Re: Anonymous #1] * 1
    #26999912 - 10/23/20 03:08 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah, I feel you. It can be easier to just accept it and tell ourselves we don't need it, or should find other things.

Mixed messages is an understatement. Most women, to an extent, engage in sexual signalling all day (as do men, albeit differently.) Western culture has ended up where many women's self-esteem is dependent on their sexual desirability and ability to draw the male gaze. This results in women sending body language/non-verbal cues out constantly, now referred to in evolutionary psychology as Sexual Signalling/Broadcasting.

Men interpret this to mean that she is receptive to a sexual relationship with them personally, but it usually just means that she is insecure and needs to affirm her worth by getting you to respond to her signals. Most women send out signals that men deem objectively intended to arouse sexual desire, but again, just because a woman wants a man to desire her does not mean that she is open to doing anything.

Men tend to be more straight forward. I think this is why there is so much confusion in the dating world, and why "leading someone on" tends to come from women. Men pathologically misinterpret female body language and make the fundamental attribution error; attributing a personal, internal trait or event (like a crush) to a behavior instead of external happenstance/circumstance (like self-affirming, self-esteem boosting, "safety" behavior that makes one feel more comfortable with themselves.) I think thats also why men often say women "play games." In a sense, sexual signalling is a game. But men play it as well, its not a sex-linked behavior.

I'd blame it on culture, but I already know why it happens. I should be able to navigate this. I study psychology, I already know this stuff, but in the moment its like I forget all my knowledge and revert to idiocy. Good luck my friend. I hope things change for you, and myself for that matter.


--------------------

"Mistakes are, after all, the foundations of truth, and if a man does not know what a thing is, it is at least an increase in knowledge if he knows what it is not."

-Carl Jung


"The current state of knowledge is a moment in history, changing just as rapidly as the state of knowledge in the past has ever changed and, in many instances, more rapidly."
-Jean Piaget


Edited by edgar1337 (10/23/20 03:11 PM)


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: I'm handsome, a body builder, and STILL can't find a woman [Re: Anonymous #1] * 1
    #26999923 - 10/23/20 03:15 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

yeah said:
Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Check out this story by Kryptos, it should help guide you on a possible method to develop your woman-socializing skills: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26978584#26978584




I read that. Women don't really want to be talked to while they're working in my experience.
Just the other day a female coworker ranted about how she hates it...




Define: Talked to

You really can't sit down for a chat with someone at work. They are working. They need to do their jobs.

This is why I picked cashiers (and while I'm not longer actively pursuing due to covid, still chat up cashiers whenever I can). You can't actually talk to them without holding up a line and pissing more people off. What you can do, however, is trade a few quips. You are a paying customer, and by social convention, you are required to spend a certain amount of time digging around for a wallet with a dumb look on your face while the lady in front of you waves the things you want to purchase in front of a beepy thing. Then there is another dance involving plastic objects and other beepy things, all of which takes...what, 30 seconds? By social convention, this dead time during the transaction can be filled with silence, or some form of appropriate public social interaction.

My process was 3-4 total interactions: First time I see her, while I'm waiting in line, I find an accessory to compliment. That's kinda related to the sexual harassment thing above, too. You CANNOT compliment physical attributes. "Nice tits" is not a compliment. Usually, cashiers have a uniform, so complimenting clothes is kinda dumb. Something like a ring, a bracelet, a hair clip, an unusual hair color, that's a decision and an extra effort that was consciously made. Therefore, "I like your hair clip/color/style" and "nice ring" are both valid compliments. Stay away from necklace and belt buckle compliments. Personally, I think hair accessories is easiest. So, figure it out in line, make your transaction, say it casually, and go on about your day. If you get positive acknowledgement, cool. Or, any break from the dead eyed fake happy expression that most customer service workers seem to acquire that isn't openly hostile is good, really.

Step two: Next interaction, since you got positive acknowledgement from step one, is to expand on that compliment that you should definitely still remember, and ask about it. Did the hair clip change? Is it now a ponytail? Did the bracelet disappear? Those are easiest: "Oh, no [accessory] today?", she'll say something, pay attention, "oh, that's cool", and continue about your day. Otherwise, "why the [accessory]?" This time, in addition to being positive, it needs to be useful information. Ideally, something that you can draw a contrast with. You can repeat step 2 once, maybe twice more, but if you haven't gotten any kind of information, I usually take that as an intentional go away.

Step three: Now, you should have enough information to be able to present a clear choice: ponytail or hairclip? This color or that color bracelet? Working register or self checkout? Almost anything, really. At this point, if you get a good response, which could include any sort of enthusiasm, maybe she recognized you, you enter the one time only portion of step three. On step three days, I have my number written on postits in my wallet. So, while putting my card back in my wallet, I can hand her my number and say something like "speaking of choices" or "tell me more" or whatever. Then you go about your day.

Then you sit and wait. If you get a text from a new number, and you've waited until the end of covid like a responsible adult, you've got a lady trying to talk to you in your phone. Probably. I guess it depends on how much texts from unknown numbers you normally get.

Now, the beauty of this is the dead time of normal social interaction while at a cash register. Everything up to the moment you're handing her your number is within the bounds of normal social interactions. That's why you're asking about bullshit like hair ties. It doesn't matter. It's all small talk. It should not feel weird, and if it does, it means you need to practice your common small talk. It will probably improve other aspects of your life as well. Honestly, you can practice that part whenever there is a dead time interaction with another person. This is a great skill. Small talk, practiced to the level of confident semi-sensical rambling of bullshit will get you pretty far in life.

From the harassment angle: and ladies, correct me if I'm wrong, the way I figure you have one try. You can hand her your number once. If she's cold and distant leading up, I usually take that as a go away. No answer is an answer. She didn't lose your number, and she didn't forget that you gave it to her. Of course, any "no" leading up to that moment is also an answer. From then on, I don't take any steps to avoid interactions, but I keep them entirely professional.

Doing this in a bar, or other overtly social location, I find harder because you need to be able to string it all together in one interaction, and be able to expand on it on the fly. Now sure, I can monologue at length about certain topics, but they're usually not all that small-talk-y. It's a good way to build comfort talking to girls overall, though. When covid is dealt with, go to a bar and bullshit back and forth with a few tables.

Keep it friendly and light. Don't get desperate, and don't lash out after a rejection. After all, female friends are a great source of hot singles in your area, and you'd rather the girl telling them about the great guy she met instead of the creep she met.

By the way, here's a fun study:

56% of women would say yes to a rando walking up to them and saying "I've been noticing you around campus, I find you very attractive, would you go on a date with me tonight?"

Of course, this study is fairly old, and since it's a psychological study from the 70s, the test subjects are undergrads, being the cheapest and most reliable source of subjects for scientific trials. Real life results may skew a little lower.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: I'm handsome, a body builder, and STILL can't find a woman [Re: Kryptos]
    #27000294 - 10/23/20 07:09 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Very detailed "system" you have there. A Gentleman's method :thumbup: :strokebeard:

And yeah, my definition of "talked to" as in "conversed with", "verbal interaction", even with small talk subjects.

Thats a pretty interesting study. I wonder how things have changed over the years....


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