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Brain Fart
Mushroom Nerd



Registered: 12/19/07
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Help!
#26992914 - 10/19/20 12:42 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've been around these boards a long time and I've grown a shitload of mushrooms in my day but for some reason I have had horrible results the last few years.
I use a SAB and pressure cook everything as per the standard.
Inoculated wbs and rye both in jars and in bags. Most colonize with visible healthy mycelium but when I'm spawning to bulk and I have tried in monos, mini monos, shoeboxes you name it and I keep getting green mold before even the first flush. Sometimes lucky and I'll get a flush but usually mold is beating out myc even in 1:1 spawn ratios. My spawn has to be getting contaminated somehow? I was using spo%*+#rks for years and recently switched to see if it would help.
Just made 4qts of rye and inoculated b+ last night. Going to try to spawn to coir in spawn bags and grow invitro or in shoeboxes.
Just not sure where I'm getting the mold. I do grow weed so I have soil inside but it's downstairs (trichoderma lives almost always in soil)
Other than that it's rainy season in PNW and thus climate is new to me also so adjusting to that also.
Anyone want to shoot me some advice? I've never had issues like this other than the last 3 years trying to grow bulk.
Edited by fahtster (10/19/20 02:05 PM)
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fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,269
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I’d say maybe try taking your syringes to pf cakes first and try and get some fruits so you can clone to grain (or agar if you want to go that route) and make a GLC... you can keep knocking up small jars of grain when you inoculate your qts/bags to keep master jars to continue on with the culture. It’s what I do and works really well
Faht
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Big_Dub
I'm just some guy



Registered: 01/12/11
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yeah the BRF is a good idea. dont doubt that its your technique though. I know that I have decent technique, but i get lazy sometimes and then mistakes start happening.
-------------------- split_by_nine said: click me you fuck do the right thing
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Brain Fart
Mushroom Nerd



Registered: 12/19/07
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Thanks guys. Think I'll try to clone to agar and make a GLC right away with one of my new grain masters I just inoculated.
I'll try smaller holes on smaller tubs and see if that helps also as I think I'm having issues with surface humidity/moisture not being dialed in.
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Big_Dub
I'm just some guy



Registered: 01/12/11
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try it without the LC. just knock up the grain with an agar wedge
-------------------- split_by_nine said: click me you fuck do the right thing
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fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



Registered: 06/17/06
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Yeah the glc is just with the grain.. if you’re gonna do agar, just use that. Sorry.. I worded it weirdly above
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Brain Fart
Mushroom Nerd



Registered: 12/19/07
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Not sure if my post was confusing but I am very well-versed in what I can do and what I can't do in mycology The issue that I'm having is contamination of trichoderma prior to or during the first flush of bulk.
That's my issue. I have tried the LC, GLC, Agar, and G2G and all have had the same issues like I said I was starting to suspect possibly it was the cultures themselves so I started ordering directly from spore works and trying to do multi-spore to grain jars and then spawn the grain jars straight to bulk and still the same issue with the green mold. I used to do one quart jar of spawn to a 5-lb bag of spawn and then once that was colonized it would go into a 66 quart tub with one brick of choir and two quarts of vermiculite. Was able to usually pull at least eight to 12 oz on the first flush. Now I can't even get my substrates to fruit properly without giving me mold. If I'm lucky I'm able to pull an ounce from a tub before it goes green.
What the heck is going on!?
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smalltalk_canceled
Babnik


Registered: 07/13/20
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Threads like these skew the opinion towards the spore load or trich load of a house eventually piling up to make normal transfers impossible
-------------------- Willpower is the one true virtue
  
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Brain Fart
Mushroom Nerd



Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 2,538
Loc: Your Mom
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Quote:
smalltalk_canceled said: Threads like these skew the opinion towards the spore load or trich load of a house eventually piling up to make normal transfers impossible
To be honest that's what I have convinced myself of as the only possibility but then again I see people on Instagram growing mushrooms with little to no knowledge and probably even less sterile tech So that begs the question do I just need to get myself into a new and updated house? We are looking to buy a house thank God here before the holidays and say goodbye to renting forever lol
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mushboy
modboy



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5lb bag? like you weigh it or its sold in 5lbs??
got pics of cultures/grain jars you spawned that went green? how does the mold set in?
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Brain Fart
Mushroom Nerd



Registered: 12/19/07
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My large spawn bags would fit about 5 lb of grain when filled with I think it was six or seven quarts of rye. Can't remember it's been a while but yes I used to weigh them.
No unfortunately I don't have any pictures but usually my grain colonizes fine and my bulk run looks good but then when I open things up and try to fruit or if I'm letting it consolidate prior to fruiting sometimes I'll notice thick white patches that I know are going to turn green and if I let them go sure enough they sporulate. Seen enough to know the difference between myc and trichoderma mold if the flush is midway sometimes I can get away with dumping salt on the mold spot but quite honestly the majority of the time I end up going green before the flush even starts.
These are mostly regarding the larger 66 quart tubs. the smaller shoe boxes worked better but still went green after the first or second flush at best and I had to keep the substrate thin and fruit it in vitro so the fruits were small and I'm not really happy with harvesting a small amount over time I really need to dial in the bulk tubs and scale up.
We are about to vote on legal manufacture of psilocybin here in Oregon and your boy here needs to get his shit together because I have some investors that want me to get my shit together lol.
Do I just have such a heavy spore load in the house and not enough air exchange that my spore load is causing mold to outpace my mycelium? I was under the impression that coir was pretty resilient and not to mention if I use the high spawn ratio it would colonize fast and beat out anything else in competition but I'm continuously flabbergasted at how mold keeps popping up and it's always trichoderma...
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meowjinx
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Registered: 05/20/19
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Quote:
Brain Fart said:
Quote:
smalltalk_canceled said: Threads like these skew the opinion towards the spore load or trich load of a house eventually piling up to make normal transfers impossible
To be honest that's what I have convinced myself of as the only possibility but then again I see people on Instagram growing mushrooms with little to no knowledge and probably even less sterile tech So that begs the question do I just need to get myself into a new and updated house? We are looking to buy a house thank God here before the holidays and say goodbye to renting forever lol
I've been having similar issues. Trich found its way into my first ever grow. Sometime between the first or second flush of all (8 total) shoeboxes and one mono the Green Devil appeared. Only one shoebox was totally uncontaminated, it died a "natural death"
Fast forward to my second grow, a clone. I used unmodded plastic lids to eliminate filters and thus one contam vector. I bought a new, bigger SAB to do more comfortable agar work. I only used very small wedges of agar to inoculate my grain jars. I PCed all of my grain for at least 2 hours, but usually more. I drowned all of my wooden furniture, my SAB, my grow rooms walls with distilled vinegar. I rubbed alcohol all over my arms every time I'd do SAB work
tl;dr I tried as many things as I could think of to keep Trich out. Instead, it came back even harder. In my first grow (multispore) I still got fruits out of most of my shoeboxes. But this time almost all of them Triched out only a few days after spawning. Luckily, the shroom gods showed some mercy and I had one single monotub that fruited and gave me a decent yield, so it wasn't a total waste
I know it found its way into my clone culture, that's where it's originating. I know because I made some Pasty EzLCs but instead of adding water to one, I left it as a control and watched it. After a couple of weeks the Trich sporulated and I saw green. Thank fuck I didn't waste more grain on that shit
But right now I'm in the process of constructing a plan of action to fix this issue
The problem with Trich is that it grows alongside regular cube mycelium. Unlike some other molds, which will grow in sectors that stay away from cube myc, Trich is one mold that forms what are called "appresoria", cellular structures that allow its mycelium to spread within the cube mycelium. Therefore if Trich somehow finds its way into one of your cultures, that culture may be permafucked unless you can transfer a piece of it out cleanly before the Trich reaches that part. Or, alternatively, you can trash all of your cultures and begin again from scratch and hope that you are able to keep it clean this time
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Brain Fart
Mushroom Nerd



Registered: 12/19/07
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By the way I missed all your motherfuckers ♥️
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smalltalk_canceled
Babnik


Registered: 07/13/20
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Quote:
Brain Fart said:
Quote:
smalltalk_canceled said: Threads like these skew the opinion towards the spore load or trich load of a house eventually piling up to make normal transfers impossible
To be honest that's what I have convinced myself of as the only possibility but then again I see people on Instagram growing mushrooms with little to no knowledge and probably even less sterile tech So that begs the question do I just need to get myself into a new and updated house? We are looking to buy a house thank God here before the holidays and say goodbye to renting forever lol
Well, I'd have real problems believing that a sealed container with mycelium, and a fresh SAB wouldn't still allow some transfers to go through.
If you test that, and you still get a 9/10 contam rate, there is only the PCing left to consider, and then you need to PC grains, no inoculate, bring some to the sab, leave some directly on the shelf.
Either of this could point to pressure cooking being faulty, or your old sab being somehow especially infested.
Who knows really, this type of problem is extremely hard to diagnose, those tricks above are the only way forward I see to get more information
If the contamination starts after spawning, maybe there even is a food source circulating in the air, landing on the open air spawn
Also if you are getting contams from the same culture you need to check if thats the problem too
Edited by smalltalk_canceled (10/19/20 07:11 PM)
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Brain Fart
Mushroom Nerd



Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 2,538
Loc: Your Mom
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Quote:
smalltalk_canceled said:
Quote:
Brain Fart said:
Quote:
smalltalk_canceled said: Threads like these skew the opinion towards the spore load or trich load of a house eventually piling up to make normal transfers impossible
To be honest that's what I have convinced myself of as the only possibility but then again I see people on Instagram growing mushrooms with little to no knowledge and probably even less sterile tech So that begs the question do I just need to get myself into a new and updated house? We are looking to buy a house thank God here before the holidays and say goodbye to renting forever lol
Well, I'd have real problems believing that a sealed container with mycelium, and a fresh SAB wouldn't still allow some transfers to go through.
If you test that, and you still get a 9/10 contam rate, there is only the PCing left to consider, and then you need to PC grains, no inoculate, bring some to the sab, leave some directly on the shelf.
Either of this could point to pressure cooking being faulty, or your old sab being somehow especially infested.
Who knows really, this type of problem is extremely hard to diagnose, those tricks above are the only way forward I see to get more information
If the contamination starts after spawning, maybe there even is a food source circulating in the air, landing on the open air spawn
Also if you are getting contams from the same culture you need to check if thats the problem too
Just built a new SAB yesterday. So so we'll see how it goes. I normally pressure cook 90mims or 120mins for 7qt glass jars. Bags I usually go longer because they need to reach internal core temperature and maintain it for the proper amount of time. I'm glad it's not just me because I felt like I've been going crazy trying to figure it out and narrow down where the issues have been coming from.
I was using syringes from spore works as well as making my own syringes before and neither was working so I just ordered from Little shop of spores as per recommendation from someone I work with and I am going to see if for whatever reason they work out better?
Edited by Brain Fart (10/19/20 07:15 PM)
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meowjinx
Stranger

Registered: 05/20/19
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Quote:
smalltalk_canceled said:
Quote:
Brain Fart said:
Quote:
smalltalk_canceled said: Threads like these skew the opinion towards the spore load or trich load of a house eventually piling up to make normal transfers impossible
To be honest that's what I have convinced myself of as the only possibility but then again I see people on Instagram growing mushrooms with little to no knowledge and probably even less sterile tech So that begs the question do I just need to get myself into a new and updated house? We are looking to buy a house thank God here before the holidays and say goodbye to renting forever lol
Well, I'd have real problems believing that a sealed container with mycelium, and a fresh SAB wouldn't still allow some transfers to go through.
If you test that, and you still get a 9/10 contam rate, there is only the PCing left to consider, and then you need to PC grains, no inoculate, bring some to the sab, leave some directly on the shelf.
Either of this could point to pressure cooking being faulty, or your old sab being somehow especially infested.
Who knows really, this type of problem is extremely hard to diagnose, those tricks above are the only way forward I see to get more information
If the contamination starts after spawning, maybe there even is a food source circulating in the air, landing on the open air spawn
Also if you are getting contams from the same culture you need to check if thats the problem too
In my case I did try grain negative control jars. Jars that weren't inoculated, although I did even pantomime the action of transferring agar wedges into the jars, I just didn't actually put anything in
I left the jars in my closet shelf for over 2 months, with temps regularly going over 80F. Zero mold ever showed up. So in my case, at least, I doubt it was from spores in the air. The cultures themselves may have been contaminated from Trich spores, but not the grain
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Brain Fart
Mushroom Nerd



Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 2,538
Loc: Your Mom
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Quote:
meowjinx said:
Quote:
smalltalk_canceled said:
Quote:
Brain Fart said:
Quote:
smalltalk_canceled said: Threads like these skew the opinion towards the spore load or trich load of a house eventually piling up to make normal transfers impossible
To be honest that's what I have convinced myself of as the only possibility but then again I see people on Instagram growing mushrooms with little to no knowledge and probably even less sterile tech So that begs the question do I just need to get myself into a new and updated house? We are looking to buy a house thank God here before the holidays and say goodbye to renting forever lol
Well, I'd have real problems believing that a sealed container with mycelium, and a fresh SAB wouldn't still allow some transfers to go through.
If you test that, and you still get a 9/10 contam rate, there is only the PCing left to consider, and then you need to PC grains, no inoculate, bring some to the sab, leave some directly on the shelf.
Either of this could point to pressure cooking being faulty, or your old sab being somehow especially infested.
Who knows really, this type of problem is extremely hard to diagnose, those tricks above are the only way forward I see to get more information
If the contamination starts after spawning, maybe there even is a food source circulating in the air, landing on the open air spawn
Also if you are getting contams from the same culture you need to check if thats the problem too
In my case I did try grain negative control jars. Jars that weren't inoculated, although I did even pantomime the action of transferring agar wedges into the jars, I just didn't actually put anything in
I left the jars in my closet shelf for over 2 months, with temps regularly going over 80F. Zero mold ever showed up. So in my case, at least, I doubt it was from spores in the air. The cultures themselves may have been contaminated from Trich spores, but not the grain
Interesting idea. I'll try thus also with one or two spare jars of grain. One wbs and one rye and see how it goes. Should answer my question
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