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OfflineFractal420
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Did your hemp extract just become Illegal?
    #26992258 - 10/19/20 04:08 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

https://420intel.com/articles/2020/08/26/did-your-hemp-extract-just-become-illegal

Late last week, the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) released their Interim Final Ruling on hemp extract that, if passed in October, will have devastating consequences for the CBD industry. [Effective Oct 20]

In typical government fashion, the DEA misinterpreted what was stated in the Farm Bill and ran with it, creating a new roadblock for the cannabis industry that makes no sense whatsoever. In short, the DEA ruling prohibits any hemp extract that reach 0.3% or more tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) at any point during the manufacturing process, by categorizing these products as Schedule 1 Narcotics. Did all hemp extract just become illegal?

At first glance, the law makes sense based on the 0.3% cutoff that, arbitrary as it may be, has been around for quite some time. However, this law doesn’t apply to just finished products. If we have a CBD oil for example, that has no THC in the final product and was extracted from legally compliant industrial hemp, it could still be illegal if at some point during the manufacturing process, the THC (temporarily) exceeded 0.3 percent.

Now it makes even less sense, doesn’t it? Well, it doesn’t get much better.

WIPHE and Temporarily Elevated Levels of THC

When creating CBD products, even isolate, they go through a stage referred to as Work-in-Progress Hemp Extract (WIPHE), during which the concentrations of THC temporarily exceed 0.3 percent. Products in the WIPHE stage are only partially processed, and not intended for sale or consumption. Fluctuating levels of cannabinoids is just a normal part of the process and is impossible to avoid. Even during at the most basic levels of production, there will always be a point where the product has more than 0.3% THC.

It is these WIPHE products that are now banned. So, in the process of creating legal products from a legal plant, they briefly enter a stage where they are considered a Schedule 1 controlled substances, and thus are overall illegal. It was always the elephant in the room, but it’s honestly illogical to think that any of that matters, the focus should obviously be on the finished product that ends up in the consumer’s hands.

Dry hemp vs wet hemp

There is quite a bit of confusion whether this applies to products in the WIPHE stage or only completely finished, consumer products. According to the National Hemp Association, “this IFR only refers to consumer products to ensure that they are D9 compliant. It does not address mid-process crude or distillate which often exceeds legal THC levels. So moving/selling those materials across state lines remains ambiguous and problematic. However, while this IFR does not alleviate that concerns it also does not make it worse.”

However, lawyers from CannaBusiness Law Group say otherwise. I would like to reference the dry vs. wet hemp issue that means, this DEA IFR likely refers to crude, in-process products as well, which would make all hemp extract illegal.

“It is clear that a hemp plant (or part of a plant) with THC levels that do not exceed the statutory 0.3% concentration limit on a dry weight basis is lawful. That plant (or part of the plant) can be chopped, ground, plucked, and otherwise processed dry and remain lawful. This is because the statutory definition directly addresses hemp on a dry weight basis. The issue addressed in this letter arises when hemp is processed for its oil, which necessarily renders the hemp plant and its parts “wet”. The statute does not contemplate measuring THC levels of a wet extract. For this reason, in determining whether it is lawful to transport WIPHE we must focus both on both the language and Farm Bill’s apparent intent.”

What does this mean and what can we do?

Honestly, it’s hard to say what it all means. If it holds up in a court of law, which I personally don’t think it will, it would be a complete and utter disaster for the CBD industry. Would all CBD products be banned? What would happen to FDA-approved drugs like Epidiolex, which use CBD in their formulations?

There are a lot of unanswered questions at the moment, but the good news is, this ruling isn’t set in stone and we have until October 20, 2020 to voice our opinions. Just CLICK HERE and following the online instructions at that site for submitting comments. To ensure proper handling of comments, you should reference “RIN 1117- AB53/ Docket No. DEA-500” on all correspondence.

In addition to potentialy making hemp extract illegal, Delta-8 products have been banned as well, and that has been challenged in court by numerous hemp companies. If you own a hemp company that will be affected by this ruling, talking to a lawyer about your options might be your best bet.

Fractal note: I posted a warning for people to comment on the IFR 60 days ago (was in the headlines for a while)


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Dreaming of That face again.
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Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye



Edited by Fractal420 (10/19/20 05:27 PM)


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OfflineYokal
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Re: Did your hemp extract just become Illegal? [Re: Fractal420]
    #26992372 - 10/19/20 06:37 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

They know if it has 1% thc that it could be beneficial for some other ailment, so they chose some arbitrary number.


Edited by Yokal (10/19/20 06:39 AM)


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Did your hemp extract just become Illegal? [Re: Yokal]
    #26992673 - 10/19/20 10:27 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

To be clear this does not affect D9-THC, only hemp products (CBD, D8, etc)

The number doesn’t matter. Once it’s an extract it can be considered “synthetic” and a “controlled tetrahydrocannabinol”. Could upend the whole CBD and D8 extract communities. I feel like they will let CBD slide under conditions but D8 is psychoactive (so what?) so they’re gonna try to ban THC’s (directly, indirectly)

Anyway this isn’t news just the fact that they finalized the ruling (Tom is oct 20th). I hope you guys grabbed some D8 in those 60 days at least! :smile:

Maybe it’ll still be sold, I don’t know. The whole ruling is actually very fucking confusing


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Prying open MY third eye



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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: Did your hemp extract just become Illegal? [Re: Fractal420]
    #26992908 - 10/19/20 12:39 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Being a bit crass here, but this shit is so fucking retarded. I don't even know where to begin so I'll just leave it at that, this is fucking retarded.

So much is done to keep this plant out of the hands of the people and to prevent what it has to offer from going into our bodies.

Making things so unnecessarily convoluted with #s and percentages and limits and nothing but non-sense. It's a fucking plant.

  :drgonz:





Fuck you Anslinger, fuck you DEA, fuck you FDA, fuck you Nixon, fuck you to anyone who's played a part in keeping these plants out of the hands of the people and has played a part in putting people in cages and completely ruining the lives of others because they grew or possessed or consumed these plants. Rot in hell. You're acidic scum. Soul-less. Heart-less. Evil.





-OM


.


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Did your hemp extract just become Illegal? [Re: openmind]
    #26992994 - 10/19/20 01:25 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Word OM, agreed.

Like I said “if it’s in cannabis it’s illegal” “if it’s in hemp it’s legal”, 50 states with diff laws, federal ban that still hasn’t been broken. It’s really fucked. Imagine being a hemp farmer planning on making CBD extract and now maybe you can’t or maybe you wanted to work with D8, which I find to be a really important (and useful) THC and I think it will not be lost.

Actually probably things like CBG and CBN are also up in the air. Even CBD. It’s a whole industry

Here’s a different side of this same coin, a lawsuit on behalf of the hemp industry
https://mgretailer.com/cannabis-news/complaint-filed-against-dea-for-violation-of-2018-farm-act-hemp-provisions/


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Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye



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Invisibletrvptamine
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Re: Did your hemp extract just become Illegal? [Re: Fractal420]
    #26994265 - 10/20/20 10:08 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Nah, its still completely legal. The government is confused on this one. The farm bill specifically legalized all isomers found in hemp besides d9 and thcA i believe. Dont worry about it. Everyone is still selling delta8thc and other similar cannabinoids like THCv and THCp, because its pretty well understood that the DEA doesnt get to make the law.

Also, the majority of delta8-thc available from hemp companies is made by turning CBD into delta8THC rather than the process they use on the medical/recreational markets which uses delta9.

Im still gonna keep buying ounces of delta8 distilate from my usual source cause its not going away any time soon.


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Did your hemp extract just become Illegal? [Re: trvptamine]
    #26995595 - 10/21/20 01:02 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I love D8 and yeah, as long as they keep selling it. But also, according to the DEA, if it goes above 0.3% D9 at any point they want to consider it illegal.

It’s not about what’s right, it’s about who wins the legal argument I guess

Would suck if a 28ml bottle or whatever was confiscated and treated as true schedule 1

But yeah guys this is the second time I’ve posted D8 updates, it’s a very bonkers area of the law, maybe even Wild West


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Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye



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Offlinegopher
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Re: Did your hemp extract just become Illegal? [Re: trvptamine]
    #26995810 - 10/21/20 06:35 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

trvptamine said:
because its pretty well understood that the DEA doesnt get to make the law.





I thought the DEA can emegency schedule something, in 2016(i think) they tried to do that to kratom, but due to the huge outcry, and the Amjerican Kratom Association, and even Joe Rogan spreading the word, it was stopped in its tracks


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Invisibletrvptamine
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Re: Did your hemp extract just become Illegal? [Re: gopher]
    #26995963 - 10/21/20 08:58 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

gopher said:
Quote:

trvptamine said:
because its pretty well understood that the DEA doesnt get to make the law.





I thought the DEA can emegency schedule something, in 2016(i think) they tried to do that to kratom, but due to the huge outcry, and the Amjerican Kratom Association, and even Joe Rogan spreading the word, it was stopped in its tracks



They definitely can emergency schedule substances.

Now I could be wrong on this, but im pretty sure they can only emergency schedule substances that havent already specifically been made legal. The farm bill made all of the cannabinoids in hemp legal besides delta9 I believe. So I dont think the DEA really gets to have a say on this anymore. It is within their power to ensure that none of the "hemp derrived delta8" has more than .3% delta9thc in it though.


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Did your hemp extract just become Illegal? [Re: trvptamine]
    #26996034 - 10/21/20 09:50 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Again, I said this before but at the crux of this is that the DEA doesn’t want “WIPHE” (when hemp is in extract form, like CBD, and may have higher than 0.3% thc just due to the process). It’s not about the end product. They are trying to say if there’s more than 0.3% D9 at ANY point, the end result is illegal.

Now this is fucking really stupid and just a way to handicap those who make delta8, I dunno if they’d end up treating it as schedule 1 if caught in transport.

(It is a “tetrahydrocannabinol” also, prolly separately considered an analog, and I think has been on the dea’s list for a long time)

But they didn’t do anything till sites with distillate and pens started popping up for cheaper than rec and in all states


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Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye



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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Did your hemp extract just become Illegal? [Re: Fractal420]
    #26996234 - 10/21/20 11:38 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

They (mayors etc) emergency scheduled vaping nicotine in a few states at the beginning of the year.  Some places got shut down over night.  There were clips people posted of police coming into vape shops and arresting people who refused to close.  You tax dollars at work.  I should add it was all done over incorrect info so it doesn’t even have to be correct when they start shutting shit down.  They can do anything they want really with the harshest penalty being they just have to give it back if it’s not “destroyed or lost”

I just found a place with D8 flower and it looks exactly like weed.  I suppose with the shitty tests they use it would test just like weed unless you got something that differentiates between. 8-9.  Seems sketchy.

Seems even sketchier they’re still going as hard as they are to keep this out of people’s hands.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: Did your hemp extract just become Illegal? [Re: Amanita86]
    #26996398 - 10/21/20 01:22 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Another case of drugs causing psychosis in people that don't take them.


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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: Did your hemp extract just become Illegal? [Re: Amanita86]
    #26996461 - 10/21/20 01:55 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:


I just found a place with D8 flower and it looks exactly like weed.






As in, they are buds that contain only D8THC and no D9THC?

"Looks exactly like weed"...so is it actually cannabis? Or is it just some plant matter that has been sprayed/laced with what is claimed to be "D8THC"?

Is it a specific strain? What sort of place did you see it, was it in a weed store?



I find it a bit hard to believe tho that there are already strains of cannabis out there that contain only D8THC and not D9THC....I don't think there are any varieties of cannabis that actually produce D8THC beyond trace amounts if at all(?).

I was under the impression that D8THC is coming from the isomerization/reflux of CBD...and D8 is not something that is found in the flowers in high concentrations like D9THC or CBD or any of the other common cannabinoids.

So I find it hard to believe there are already varieties of cannabis out there that are rich in D8THC.




-OM

.


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Did your hemp extract just become Illegal? [Re: openmind]
    #26996588 - 10/21/20 03:16 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Well strap in because it’s here.  I assumed it was sprayed.  Just hemp plant sprayed with delta 8 but I didn’t get a chance to ask.  It looks and smells exactly like weed with no crystals.  I’ve not smoked it to see how it works.

As far as I know all this d8 is coming from cbd and like you’re saying delta 8 is only in small amounts on the plant.

I found it at one of those semi ghetto vape/kratom/cbd stores run by a nice middle eastern gentleman.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: Did your hemp extract just become Illegal? [Re: Amanita86]
    #26997908 - 10/22/20 12:54 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
Well strap in because it’s here.  I assumed it was sprayed.  Just hemp plant sprayed with delta 8 but I didn’t get a chance to ask.  It looks and smells exactly like weed with no crystals.  I’ve not smoked it to see how it works.

As far as I know all this d8 is coming from cbd and like you’re saying delta 8 is only in small amounts on the plant.

I found it at one of those semi ghetto vape/kratom/cbd stores run by a nice middle eastern gentleman.





lol...interesting.

Yea I'd bet it's hemp or some plant material that's been sprayed/laced with D8 (or possibly some sort of synthetic cannabinoid and it's just claimed to be "D8"). Since you mention it has no trichomes (crystals) that makes me think that's what's going on even more so (even CBD buds look like dank weed frosted with trichomes)

I just don't think a strain of cannabis that is rich in D8 and has no D9 would randomly pop up out of no where as soon as there's a hype around D8....If so, I feel there would be a lot of news and talk about it through out the cannabis industry.



I do want to give the D8THC oil a try though, dabbing it and dripping some on a bowl or joint, mostly just purely out of curiosity. (I'm not a fan of isolates/single cannabinoids and have plenty of herb/hash on hand, but I am a curious creature lol). Seems cheap too.






-OM

.


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Did your hemp extract just become Illegal? [Re: openmind]
    #26998296 - 10/22/20 04:41 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

It’s prob some low quality bud they use Just as a medium to infuse D8. I wouldn’t imagine it’s sprayed, prolly more likely just covered with D8 oil which seeps in. I’m amazed that D8 nugs are making it to gas stations already, damn.

But yeah also, be careful when you don’t know for sure what it is, gas stations did sell K2 etc for a long time


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye



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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Did your hemp extract just become Illegal? [Re: Fractal420]
    #26998338 - 10/22/20 05:07 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Fractal420 said:
I wouldn’t imagine it’s sprayed, prolly more likely just covered with D8 oil which seeps in.



It’s wet and dark.  Remember when metal bowls used to have chambers?  This is like you put it in the chamber and took a few hits so that probably is how they make it.

For clarity I didn’t find (nor have I) it at a gas station.  So far it’s made it to only the kratom/vape/cbd/tobacco stores, so assuming it’s legal it’ll probably show up in gas stations shortly.


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"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Did your hemp extract just become Illegal? [Re: Amanita86]
    #26998985 - 10/23/20 01:18 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I kinda hope not, also I would have hoped they’d sell vape pens or whatever instead of infused cbd nugs

That is way too fast, prolly gonna invite unwanted attention. D8 is already struggling

As an actual Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) gotta remember D8 might not have the same protections as CBD, since it’s also psychoactive and provides a much better target for DEA and such


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Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye



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Offlineiggycrop
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Re: Did your hemp extract just become Illegal? [Re: Fractal420]
    #27007946 - 10/28/20 09:26 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

This is the first I've heard about D8 and now I am interested in trying it, haha.  Not really a fan of buying at gas stations or vape shops though.  Try to be health conscious.  Maybe I should just stick to the home grown (real thc) I get from a friend that grows himself organically.  I don't even like to smoke it and typically just make edibles as a healthier alternative.  Wish the gov would stop making it hard to get safe & proven products.


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Did your hemp extract just become Illegal? [Re: iggycrop]
    #27008414 - 10/28/20 01:30 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

real thc




D8 is very “real”, it is ALSO a Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and usually very potent (80-96% is common) and comes in distillate form so it’s made into vapes, dabs, edibles (edibles actually turn into the same 11-hydroxy so eating it is the same as eating any other edible)

You don’t have to get it at gas stations. Plenty of online shops with lab results and great quality. Usually all very google friendly

For the record my D8 is a 82% THC 1oz honey bucket. Got it for just 275. Dabs are real, real strong. I don’t even bother with pens. I just dab it normally and even better, Mix with nugs for some fire moonrocks (I use delta9 distillate too, all around 90%, and D8 isn’t much weaker)

But waaaaaay cheaper. Just gotta find a good source


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye



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