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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #26996677 - 10/21/20 04:20 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Anatomy, bio, physics, chem, & mathematics, etc are fantastic add on tools when used well & creatively & honestly by a wholesome, healthy, and keenly discerning mind. 
They can potentially be as mind expanding, if not more, than just psychedelics imho.  Together though, they can complement each other and deeply enrich life in a way that helps keep us more honest with others and ourselves.  Together - emergent things happen in our understanding of the world from a phenomenological view point - One that doesn’t seem to occur often when the vehicle one uses to pierce phenomena is just one or the other alone.

It makes the shine of reality all the more clear.


Edited by The Blind Ass (10/21/20 04:34 PM)


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OfflineVylie
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26996696 - 10/21/20 04:33 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:05 PM)


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
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Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26996698 - 10/21/20 04:37 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

You’ve tooted your last toot. :crazy2::rocket:
:awepreciation:


--------------------
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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26996733 - 10/21/20 05:14 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Gravity is not a force...any way there is no point is discussing physics is you don't have a basic understanding of how it works.


also science isn't trying to explain such origins. Just the mechanism of the system. Science understands its limits. It cannot say how or where things originated. Just the process of being.

As far as the big bang is concerned...well we have evidence of an event but thats really it. We have the a tool (brain) created of this reality trying to explain the whole thing. Its a bit self limiting.

and biology could have started any way. There are plenty of things that could release energy for a system. The sun was obviously an abundant source of energy...There is life that doesn't require photosynthesis and can still thrive by releasing energy from other compounds.


Edited by LosTresOjos (10/21/20 05:21 PM)


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OfflineVylie
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26997184 - 10/21/20 11:52 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:05 PM)


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OfflineVibe_Enthusiast
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26997378 - 10/22/20 06:14 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I've had a trip where it showed me that I'm life experiencing a person, not a person experiencing life. And it has kind of fucked with me ever since. Not as bad when I'm sober.. but sometimes I'm in the mirror or whatever and like.. "damn I'm really in control of this mother fucker".
Lol. I try not to let it get way too in my head because then it just creeps me out.


--------------------
:greyalien:




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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26997388 - 10/22/20 06:23 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

there are a lot of people on these forums that exist in a world without the slightest understanding of physics but they still say things that look like they can discuss the same matter as those who do understand physics, and chemistry, and biology, and photosynthesis.

the mind is such a plastic thing, that absolute clouds of nothing can support visions of infinite integrity.

with this person, we have no recourse in facts, and that can be a good thing for an endless holiday, with an endless supply of mushrooms, and hopefully an infinity pool.

I guess he-she put me on ignore, no blame, I have not been too gentle.


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OfflineVylie
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vibe_Enthusiast]
    #26997390 - 10/22/20 06:25 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:05 PM)


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OfflineVibe_Enthusiast
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26997403 - 10/22/20 06:36 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Vylie said:
Quote:

Vibe_Enthusiast said:
I've had a trip where it showed me that I'm life experiencing a person, not a person experiencing life. And it has kind of fucked with me ever since. Not as bad when I'm sober.. but sometimes I'm in the mirror or whatever and like.. "damn I'm really in control of this mother fucker".
Lol. I try not to let it get way too in my head because then it just creeps me out.




What if it’s 100% compatible with my experience?

What I experienced at my 3rd or 4th trip and a dozen times since then is that "I’ve always existed. I’ve been playing this since forever. I make myself forget it only to remember it again. Everyone and everything else is my subconsciousness. Sometimes, I tell them. They don’t like it. Usually, they don’t believe it, but deep inside they know it’s true. It’s funny."

Don’t worry. As far as I know, I can’t read your mind. Not that I want to.





Could be man! I have those thoughts while sober. Sometimes I think I'm in one big dream and this is all made up and I'm going to wake up from a coma or something. Who knows man. The perspectives are endless... which makes it so much fun.. and so freaky!


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:greyalien:




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OfflineVylie
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vibe_Enthusiast]
    #26997424 - 10/22/20 07:11 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:05 PM)


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OfflineVibe_Enthusiast
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Registered: 10/16/18
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26997429 - 10/22/20 07:20 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Nothings stopping me from believing it. I entertain all scenarios.  I'm not committed to just one way. My mind won't let me.


--------------------
:greyalien:




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OfflineVylie
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vibe_Enthusiast]
    #26997436 - 10/22/20 07:25 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:05 PM)


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26997899 - 10/22/20 12:44 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

One does not choose to believe in something...that's a dumb notion.


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OfflineVylie
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26998297 - 10/22/20 04:41 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:05 PM)


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26999285 - 10/23/20 08:19 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

This is going to be a bit long, as I've been thinking about this for a few days, so bear with me and I ask that you read it in full if you want a complete picture of my thoughts on these matters.

Thank you.

So after some thorough reflection of your two threads, as well as the messages you have sent me, I wanted to come back and express some thoughts.

I think it worthwhile to try and take a look at what you have proposed, why there is some agreement with some of your words and even more resistance to others.

You have laid out before us a host of suggestive imagery. These experiences and/or visions seem in line with what some experience on psychedelics and also compatible with what can be experienced in episodes of madness. I think it is important to make a distinction between two important concepts that arise in your propositions

The Physical and The Metaphysical

And in order to do so, I want to start out with a quote by Terrence Mckenna.

As Terrence Mckenna put it, when discussing the various visions and experiences of the psychedelic experience:

“They are real. They have existential validity”.

So I genuinely believe that the various visions you have had, and many others, are real experiences. But that does not necessitate that they are Physical experiences. Physical experiences are bounded by the laws of our physical universe (known and unknown). And, of course, we have yet to discover everything about the physical realm. But we have some solid fundamental understandings about the basic principles of how this all works. And a lot of the experiences you have had would seem to violate those laws.

So does that mean that they aren't real? No, but perhaps they do not reside in the physical plane.

The Metaphysical plane is no less real that the physical one. We exist within that realm just as much, if not more, than the physical one. Of course, the metaphysical world is a much bigger mystery to us. The supposed “laws” are enigmatic, if they exist at all, and our experiences there do not seem bound by the same sets of rules that bind our physical ones.

So I'd like to suggest that your experiences occupy the metaphysical space. The fantastical visions you have had, the experiences of time and other dimensions, may not be compatible with the physical world but are more than capable of existing in the realms of the metaphysical one.

And I think it is important to note that that does not invalidate or make them any less “real”. But it doesn't not need to be the case that the metaphysical must manifest itself as an exact reflection in the physical and vice versa. The two worlds can exist simultaneously and be reflective in ways in which their expression looks different in each world.

For example, a lot of what you have experienced is echoed in the sentiments of The Collective Unconscious suggested by Carl Jung. Those visions come to us in our dreams and various other altered states of consciousness. Their content is generated and exists, in their ultimate reality, on the metaphysical plane. They are then manifested as visions in the physical world (brain, mind, visual field etc) and further manifest in our behaviors and assumptions of the world.

So they are just as real in the physical realms, yet they are real in a fundamentally different way than in their natural space, the metaphysical world. The visions of being a death dealing dragon is true and manifest exactly as presented in the metaphysical world. But when it manifests in the physical world, it does so in the form of symbolism and vision, channelled through altered states of consciousness, leaving an imprint on feeling and behavior. It does not manifest itself literally but instead becomes compacted within the limits of the physical world.

If the above holds water, perhaps you may see why a lot of our fellow shroomerites are proposing rebuttals to your sentiments. They believe that, somewhere along the way, you have set the two worlds upon a hierarchy, where the metaphysical world is more “real” or “important” to you, and abandoned the truth of one world for the truth of the other.

To illustrate this phenomena, I'd like to use a  quote by Alan Watts (discussing a buddhist who goes into him or herself completely, giving up the “normal world”, to manifest the transcendental (metaphysical) realm )

“Now, if you go off in that way, that is what would be called in Buddhism a pratyeka- buddha--'private buddha'. He is one who goes off into the transcendental world and is never seen again. And he's made a mistake from the standpoint of Buddhism, because from the standpoint of Buddhism, there is no fundamental difference between the transcendental world and this everyday world.”

In this way, I believe that the disconnect between yourself and many of us shroomerites manifests. We do not disagree with many of your spiritual notions, nor do we question the validity of the metaphysical experiences that you've had.

What is being questioned is the hierarchical structure you propose, that the visions you have of “dragons, demons, alien sex, goddesses, etc” are anymore real or important than the “mundane” physical experiences of being and experiencing the simple things of a limited physical mortality. And your suggestion that the metaphysical must manifest itself into the physical world exactly as you see it in a plane of limitlessness is also questionable.

Time does indeed exist here. It does not mean that it is the ultimate reality. It does not mean that it must also reflect itself exactly in the metaphysical world. Just like the metaphysical manifests itself as visions to us, instead of material events, time manifests itself differently in the metaphysical world. Many people experience time, not as a binding force, but as an independent and malleable object in the metaphysical real. So I firmly believe that the two can absolutely exist and even reflect upon each other, but that the reflections look different in each realm, based upon the laws, or lack thereof, that govern each reality.

Perhaps then, you may be able to see the general resistance of others in your threads. It is no doubt that the line between enlightenment and madness is thin, and we all overstep from time to time. It is incredibly easy to convince ourselves that we have seen the truth, we are in fact bound by the physical world. And the limitless possibilities, of the metaphysical realm, can convince us to discard all of the physical truths with which we must live. Furthermore, it is no secret that altered states of consciousness could lead us to misconstrue the way that the two worlds coexist. We may incorrectly manifest one in the other (perhaps that is where “bad trips” originate, the incorrect manifestation of the physical world into the metaphysical when we open up ourselves to cross that barrier). And it is no secret that such powerful experiences, especially if mediated by overuse of psychedelics, could overwhelm our faculties and distort the way we perceive the manifestation of the metaphysical into the physical.


Hopefully that expresses my belief of why I think that you and most others here are clashing ideologically. This is not to say that the physical rules are all figured out. As we advance our knowledge and find a better balance between the two realms, we may see truth in some or many of your experiences. And we may abandon old rules in favor of new ones that are compatible with new findings (from both realms).

But we also cannot forget that the line between enlightenment and madness is thin.



Please excuse any typos.


--------------------


Edited by Socrateshroom (10/23/20 08:21 AM)


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OfflineMalkuthian
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vibe_Enthusiast]
    #26999328 - 10/23/20 08:56 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Some people need to ask themselves the question if their thirds eye is more "open", simply because it has been raped.



The "My current view on existence shows I am more enlightened and aware than you are"-vibe, is oxymoronic.

Quote:

Vibe_Enthusiast said:
I've had a trip where it showed me that I'm life experiencing a person, not a person experiencing life.



I've had a trip where I was a inter-dimensional being drifting into different vessels throughout the universes, I lost track of which vessel I was at the beginning of the trip and afterwards I felt like a liar when I used my ID. I would absolutely describe that as a life experiencing a person. Perfect description.
(I wrote a thread about that experience: Chweing Salvia Divinorum

Personally I don't think the best way is interpreting that experience literally.
But I do think the experience is very useful, especially when it comes to understanding how different mindsets creates different perceived existences, and that sort of thing :wink:


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OfflineVylie
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #26999657 - 10/23/20 12:35 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:05 PM)


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OfflineVylie
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Malkuthian]
    #26999707 - 10/23/20 01:08 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:05 PM)


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OfflineMalkuthian
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26999770 - 10/23/20 01:48 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I guess I should explain myself in a bit more serious terms, this is what I mean:

When you journey outside yourself and open your third eye you receive an endless stream och powerful experiences. When you return from that journey I would argue that it as absolutely vital that you ground your experiences. You need to process the experiences, and connect them to your existence. As en example: the culture where Salvia Divinorum is traditionally chewed, they have the idea that after re-entering the "normal" plain of existence, you need to sing (or hum), to re-acclimatize to this existence. If you don't reconnect you will partially be lost in the other side.

Letting the otherworldly experiences taking a hold of you, without grounding them, is essentially getting raped by the beyond, put harshly. It's not unusual for people coming back after having seen the truth, with a new earned sense of spiritual superiority, when in fact they just partially (or worse) turned mad.


So how do you know when you have actually learned something/reached something, or when you simply haven't been able to realign properly and gone ape shit holier-than-thou?

Wisdom, or rather one trait of wisdom, is the capacity to differentiate between these.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26999867 - 10/23/20 02:41 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Vylie said:
Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Physics is what proves it. 





I mentioned it maybe a dozen times that physics is wrong. I few times, I’ve given examples. Not only in the last days but a few weeks ago as well.

No one has given any meaningful response, but people keep talking about scientific proofs.

Anyone with a basic understanding of chemistry (the essence of it) should understand it in minutes or two that life could not be born out of the blue on a ball of melted stone that cooled down.

I also described it here weeks ago. I see it pointless to repeat it. One or two days ago I summarized one of the blatant flaws in Big Bang theory. You can find it in my posts.

By the way, why is it easier to believe that the visible Universe was created 13 billion years ago than it happened one week ago? What’s the difference?

Why is it easier to believe that The Nothing(tm) exploded into billions of galaxy clusters than that someone is dreaming the world?




Well from my perspective your examples don't prove anything, since what I sense here is simply ignorance of the actual scientific method and body of knowledge - the kind of detailed knowledge that would demonstrate the flaws in what you're claiming. 

But I don't dismiss your inalienable right to believe in them if you feel it helpful or comforting, just like anybody else.

Have a nice life and keep on exploring the ineffable realms. :hereyougo:


--------------------

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