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InvisibleFerdinando
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Registered: 11/15/09
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26994453 - 10/20/20 12:11 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

what were those things?


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Ferdinando]
    #26994694 - 10/20/20 02:23 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

"The world is made of language."
-T. Mckenna


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26994733 - 10/20/20 02:42 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Vylie said:
Has any of you gained lasting or permanent effect due to mushroom or DMT or other psychedelic use?

For example:

* Seeing things you haven’t seen before when you are sober
* Seeing specific things on every trip that you consider real
* Anything else






Absolutely.  Once you open up those perceptual senses that otherwise usually are closed, they don't turn off just because the trip ends.

Some of it is subtle, like gaining a better intuition about people and situations, but some of it is incredibly obvious, like being able to predict future events and stay in the flow most all of the time, i.e. synchronicity. 

As to what happens during tripping specifically it's too complicated to explain briefly but it's extremely reliable in that it DOES happen pretty much every time.  :solidnod:


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26995338 - 10/20/20 08:25 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Vylie said:
Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Humans have always sought such life-changing visions, and for thousands of years have used hallucinogenic compounds to achieve them.




I have a long and expanding list of signs that make it almost impossible (ridiculously unlikely) that this reality existed even a hundred years ago.




I'm sure you do, but I'm equally sure you're entirely wrong.

OTOH is you mean THIS reality, i.e. present day delusional reality where people can firmly believe they are nothing more than code in some computer program running as an alien teenager's science project, no, that wasn't around a hundred years ago - although there were ancient philosophers who fell down the same rabbit hole. :laugh2:



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OfflineVylie
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26995979 - 10/21/20 09:14 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:05 PM)


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26996117 - 10/21/20 10:36 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Vylie said:
So, how do you know this reality is older than one week?




That's a loaded philosophical question if I've ever seen one.

No matter how one answers, anyone who has done any surface level philosophical thinking (and understands some neurology) can simple rebut with something along the lines of the brain in a vat theory or Descartes "demon" theory.

"The Demon is presenting you with an illusion, making you believe that you are who you are when in reality you are not and none of your experience is real as you know it"

"Well, you could be imagining the memories you have of a time prior to today, when in reality you are a fresh brain in a vat, having your neocortex stimulated in ways that make you believe you had experiences which you've never had"

And of course, those classic philosophical conundrums have been debated for decades upon decades.

So, what we have is an epistemic issue. And, as much of a lover and student of philosophy that I am, it leads to a circle-jerk of thought experiments that aren't particularly useful for practicality.

Here's a useful resource that has some arguments against such ideas (and perhaps against the idea that the world is just a week old and we are fooled by a demon or some such thing to believe otherwise)

https://iep.utm.edu/evil-new/#H2

Otherwise, I can only infer that reality is older than a week by my perceptual experiences, including but not limited to memory (among many other things).

Ultimately if I am "fooled" into believing this reality, when indeed it is all an illusion created by a clever "demon", aliens, future scientists of the matrix etc, then what makes you different?

In this scenario you are either
1) One of many of my perceptions being generated by some external force, rendering you false.
2) A member of the "matrix" like myself, rendering your beliefs just as illusory as mine.
3) Entirely outside of the illusion (outside of the "matrix") and perhaps even the "demon" that is generating the illusion for everyone else.

Only in option 3 could you say that your beliefs are more true than mine or anyone elses. Only in that option your suggestion that the world is less than a week old could be any more epistemically valid than my suggestion that it is more than a week old. In the other options we are both fooled by this illusion and thus are wrong in our beliefs.

So then, if we do posit that we are just brains in a vat, fooled by a demon, in the matrix, etc, what proof do you have that you are outside of this illusion while the rest of us are fooled?



Please note, the word "demon" does not necessarily mean anything resembling a biblical demon. It's just a placeholder to stay true to the concept written about by Descartes but is simply referring to something, outside of the subject, manifesting this illusion within the subject.


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OfflineVylie
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #26996251 - 10/21/20 11:47 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:05 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26996292 - 10/21/20 12:19 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I keep a diary which kinda helps with the mindfuckery of forgetfulness.

I remember making each entry when I read it.
some parts of these writings go back to the 20th century, which is more than a week ago.

recently a discussion has been circulating about this,
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26967207.

Unless you are going Qanon on us, you should keep each issue separate, i.e. this misconception about universe simulation is not related to the misconceptions about the third eye, but people who have become attracted to misconceptions seem to go for them all and it just snowballs towards total mindfuckery.


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26996357 - 10/21/20 12:59 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Relativity is very dangerous, especially in this sense.

It allows the inclusion of bull shit ideas to be just as valid as any other idea. Which is wrong.
  All ideas do not hold the same the weight or value.

Channeling Itzi from the planet Urgu is not as valid as attempting to show electromagnetic fields as real.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26996365 - 10/21/20 01:05 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

some of our best ideas are 80% true and 20% bullshit, though we don't yet know the full extent.


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26996380 - 10/21/20 01:13 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

my point being some ideas are 100% bullshit and they occupy the same rational space as other ideas. That's the danger. Ideas that are 80/20 are good fucking ideas. Look at the titan rocket, 60% success rate is damn good in real life but when in school its a fail.


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OfflineVylie
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26996408 - 10/21/20 01:27 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:05 PM)


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OfflineVylie
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #26996472 - 10/21/20 02:02 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:05 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26996476 - 10/21/20 02:03 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

holy cow!


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26996526 - 10/21/20 02:34 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not sure if a rational person would see a tree of any sort and say its a cow. They might be mistaken by an optical illusion but would be easily cleared up. One would have to be pretty delusional to perceive a cow as tree or vice versa.

This is what i'm talking about exactly right here.

All ideas are welcome to the table when in reality some ideas are just garbage. But of course with the society, especially here in the U.S. where we can't be hurting peoples feelings we have welcomed all ideas to the table. And we get nut jobs running around taking concepts that are not fleshed out by any means and running with them into an abyss where no one else can follow.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26996529 - 10/21/20 02:35 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Vylie said:
Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
I'm sure you do, but I'm equally sure you're entirely wrong.

OTOH is you mean THIS reality, i.e. present day delusional reality where people can firmly believe they are nothing more than code in some computer program running as an alien teenager's science project, no, that wasn't around a hundred years ago - although there were ancient philosophers who fell down the same rabbit hole. :laugh2:





Okay, you are sure.

Since I’m not sure about anything, only one of us can be delusional.

(Although you seem one of the brightest people here)

So, how do you know this reality is older than one week?




Well I'm not delusional usually, but when I trip I can be.  So I've learned to be cautious about ascribing ground truth to everything I experience, and the rest I try to test somewhow.

The arguments against "how do you know this reality is older than one week?" are essentially the same as the arguments against young Earth creationism, and that morass of belief is every bit as unsupportable.  Physics is what proves it. 

But commonsense demonstrates it as well, Occam's razor advise parsimony in explanations, i.e. that the simplest explanation is more likely to be correct.

In this case, aside from there being no compelling reason at all to suspect reality is only recently created somehow, is that the trouble any such creating entity would have to go to to make everything turn out "just right" is not really worth the trouble involved - like radiation from billion year old distant sources over the entire sky just happening to arrive right now with the exact traces of their origin correct.  Multiply this one case by endless similar problems involved in thinking it all just recently came to be, and the odds against it stack up such that the work involved exceeds the energy budget of the universe itself.

Of course it doesn't prove it, and it's always just possible that some sort of deity outside of time and space with a really perverse sense of humor did it all just to get one over on us.  But you'd think such an entity would want to claim credit for this joke rather that just hiding somewhere...

But we've discovered half-billion year old genetic heritage extending unbroken in life on earth, and it clearly indicates deep time at work in excruciatingly slow evolutionary change - not something just recently made. 

We have evidence in rocks of radioactive decay products accumulated over billions of years as well, in exactly the right proportions, wherever and whenever you choose to look at them. 

So the hypothetical jester deity/advanced civilization/magical creator would have to either make them that way just in advance of somebody looking, or have made them that way everywhere, all at the same time.  To what purpose?  So nobody but a few would ever suspect it?

I could go on but it's probably pointless. :havesomescience:

And, well I have to add that I regularly experience events while tripping that make me intensively question my current understanding of how reality actually works, so these sort of questions are not misguided by any means.  The difference perhaps is that I've been working steadily over quite a few years now to devise repeatable methods of testing the nature of those events in order to advance my understanding, and possibly tease out solid evidence of what could be a radical reinterpretation of physics itself.  If I finish that project before I die I'll consider it time well spent, but it's like I really don't have much of a choice - it's either figure it out or give it up and pretend it didn't happen. I seem to be incapable of the latter. :laugh2:


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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OfflineVylie
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26996585 - 10/21/20 03:13 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:05 PM)


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OfflineVylie
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26996596 - 10/21/20 03:25 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:05 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26996613 - 10/21/20 03:37 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

it is extremely low brow of you to say so, I guess school was hard, or too boring, or hormone too strong.


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OfflineVylie
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Re: Third eye, ascension, whatever [Re: Vylie]
    #26996673 - 10/21/20 04:19 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:05 PM)


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