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Offlinenagual20
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Keep getting Trich on spawn. Please help
    #26991222 - 10/18/20 09:45 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

This is the third time I'm throwing out my spawn due to Trich contamination, and I'm having a hard time narrowing down the source. My house has no visible mold sources, but two main rooms had seen Trich being transferred from bag to garbage within last year (spores probably exist)

My spawn is own-made pasteurized brown rice, syringes with B+ spores I collected myself from previous successful grows. Spawning to ziploc bags, mith 1x1 inch micropore taped "windows".

Every time I tried this, I got the mycelium growing from the bottom of the bag, but the top surface of the rice starts getting green rice grains here and there. I tried carefully scooping them out, but the new ones keep appearing.

I thought my pasteurization was shit - I held rice under 15 psi longer - didn't make a difference.

Tried another room for grain bag making and inoculation - no difference.

Now I'm wondering what's more likely:
  • that my mushroom spore prints are themselves contaminated (seems unlikely to me because Trich appears quickly on un-inoculated parts of spawn)
  • that my entire house is a Trich infested hellhole (and I get Trich during transfer from pasteurized jars to ziplocs)
  • that micropore tape does not stop Trich spores from drifting into the spawn bags, even if they were clean before (seems most likely to me).


Please let me know your thoughts.


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Offlinefraki58
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Re: Keep getting Trich on spawn. Please help [Re: nagual20]
    #26991231 - 10/18/20 09:55 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Did you for any reason open the bags with Trich, or anything that had Trich, in your house? If that's the case then maybe you spread a LOT of spores of that green shit all over your house. In RR videos, he says that having Trich spores floating around the house will send any future projects to the dump.
If that's not the case, then maybe your house is indeed a Trich infested hellhole.


--------------------
If any of the said above is incorrect, please correct me! Still learning here and constructive criticism is the best :smile:


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Keep getting Trich on spawn. Please help [Re: nagual20] * 3
    #26991232 - 10/18/20 09:57 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

A lot to unpack here.

Pasteurized brown rice in ziplock bags, nothing is sterile in this situation and is your most likely culprit. Unless you just typed out what you're doing in a confusing way. Spawn should be sterilized in a pressure cooker before inoculation not pasteurized. Uuunllesss this is some broke boi tek shit that makes no sense.
Spores put directly to the rice. That's a big no-no too. Spores syringes are not sterile.

Spore prints are contaminated by default as they are not taken in sterile conditions. This isn't a problem of your house this is a problem of nothing in your techniques being proper, sorry.


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OfflinePearl
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Re: Keep getting Trich on spawn. Please help [Re: starbones]
    #26991284 - 10/18/20 10:49 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

From the sounds of things, you're PCing the rice in jars and then dumping that into ziplock bags? Why are you doing this? Is this being done in a SAB, at least?


Edited by Pearl (10/18/20 11:44 AM)


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Keep getting Trich on spawn. Please help [Re: starbones] * 1
    #26991338 - 10/18/20 11:24 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starbones said:
This isn't a problem of your house this is a problem of nothing in your techniques being proper, sorry.




:whathesaid:


--------------------
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-------------------

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Offlinenagual20
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Re: Keep getting Trich on spawn. Please help [Re: starbones]
    #26991454 - 10/18/20 12:49 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I know what I'm doing is absolutely not the proper way. Unfortunately I'm very limited in what I can do - I'm trying to grow covertly, without buying pre-sterilized grain like I did before with success.

When I said I pasteurized the rice, I think I meant sterilized - I did have it in the pressure cooker at 15psi for 90+ minutes in glass jars, and then transferred to ziplock bags as soon as it cooled. I tried not to expose it to room air, used gloves, opened the jar inside the ziplock bag, etc. I did this transfer in the area far from previous Trich contamination.

My office where I keep the ziplock grain bags is probably contaminated with Trich spores. But I thought that having micropore tape over vent holes in the ziplocks would keep it out. I'll try to find another place to keep the bags for my next attempt.

I'm trying to find a process that can give me even a tiny yield, so that I can grow small amounts for occasional personal use.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Keep getting Trich on spawn. Please help [Re: nagual20] * 1
    #26991458 - 10/18/20 12:52 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

nagual20 said:
When I said I pasteurized the rice, I think I meant sterilized - I did have it in the pressure cooker at 15psi for 90+ minutes in glass jars, and then transferred to ziplock bags as soon as it cooled. I tried not to expose it to room air, used gloves, opened the jar inside the ziplock bag, etc. I did this transfer in the area far from previous Trich contamination.





Maybe you did sterilize it, but when you opened the jar to transfer to ziplock bags, you contaminated it.  You have to do this in front of a flow hood or in a still air box if you're going to open the jars at all.  Gloves and being careful will not suffice.


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Keep getting Trich on spawn. Please help [Re: Forrester]
    #26991497 - 10/18/20 01:23 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Why are you transferring your rice to ziplock bags instead of knocking it up while it is in the jar and letting it colonize in them? That rice is sterile after being PC'd but is no longer so if you're transferring it to ziplocks since I assume you don't have a flowhood or SAB even then it's not proper practice.

MS to grains is bad. I only do it for the purpose of clone hunting and very rarely can I get away with it without bacterial contamination. It's not a good way to do things and I'll never validate doing it to anyone.

Mold spores are in every home. Some spore loads are higher than others but that's not the issue here. The issue is your technique in general because you're exposing uncolonized grain to the air in the first place. You could live in a landfill and have success if you follow proper sterile procedure.

Between contaminating your grains in open air and using MS there is very little chance of success here if any. I'm sorry.

Can I ask why you are moving sterile grains to ziplock bags and where you got this information?

A SAB is cheap to make. Pasty plates are easy and you'll have more success following proven procedures. I could tell you a few ways to do things the wrong way and fail upwards but you want consistency in your information so you reach results. Some of my techniques are only done by me because I have the ability to use a shotgun approach to things and I'll never put them out there as a viable means of doing anything for anyone.

There are some incredibly good resource threads here and you should do some reading here:
https://www.shroomery.org/13986/Simplified-Cultivation-Methods-Easy-As-Fuck-link-list-Trusted-Culvator-links-and-methods-and-other-cultivation-info

Good luck.


--------------------
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Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.




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OfflineKyngwhatt
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Re: Keep getting Trich on spawn. Please help [Re: nagual20]
    #26991532 - 10/18/20 01:56 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

youre probably gonna need to take those spores to agar in order to clean it up.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19208976 is a good way to start agar. just use the concept and use some easier agar recipe that you don't have to grind up and whatnot.


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Offlinenagual20
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Re: Keep getting Trich on spawn. Please help [Re: starbones]
    #26991674 - 10/18/20 03:54 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starbones said:
Why are you transferring your rice to ziplock bags instead of knocking it up while it is in the jar and letting it colonize in them? That rice is sterile after being PC'd but is no longer so if you're transferring it to ziplocks since I assume you don't have a flowhood or SAB even then it's not proper practice.





The reason I was moving it to bags is to be able to shake/mix up the spawn when colonization reaches about 25%, to make it colonize faster. But your suggestion makes perfect sense - if I never take it out of the jars, it has much a smaller chance of getting contaminated.

Quote:


MS to grains is bad. I only do it for the purpose of clone hunting and very rarely can I get away with it without bacterial contamination. It's not a good way to do things and I'll never validate doing it to anyone.





I'm not sure what "MS" means here. Multi-spore? I made several spore prints from my previous growing successes on aluminum foil, and have transferred them into syringes. I've used distilled water that was also pressure-cooked, but like you said not using an SAB when scraping spores into water introduces another contamination risk.

Quote:


Can I ask why you are moving sterile grains to ziplock bags and where you got this information?





There's really no good reason - my first grows were made using sterilized grain bags I got on Amazon. Most were successful / contam free. I was trying to replicate it.

Quote:


A SAB is cheap to make. Pasty plates are easy and you'll have more success following proven procedures. I could tell you a few ways to do things the wrong way and fail upwards but you want consistency in your information so you reach results. Some of my techniques are only done by me because I have the ability to use a shotgun approach to things and I'll never put them out there as a viable means of doing anything for anyone.




Thank you for the tips and the general info - I appreciate your help.

Like I said I'm doing this covertly, and can't order any "suspicious" supplies to be delivered. So it's making experimenting a bit hard.

My next attempt:
I'll make an SAB and do print scrape / syringe prep there.
I'll ditch ziplocks and inoculate jars directly.

Do you know if micropore tape stops Trich spores in the air?

Do you think I'd have a lower contamination chance, if I was outside when doing SAB work - let's say in my garage with the door open?

Thanks again.


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Keep getting Trich on spawn. Please help [Re: nagual20] * 1
    #26991864 - 10/18/20 06:53 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Nothing suspicious about a bag of wild bird seed. Or agar.


--------------------
Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

LAGM2024


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Keep getting Trich on spawn. Please help [Re: nagual20]
    #26992021 - 10/18/20 08:57 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

nagual20 said:
I know what I'm doing is absolutely not the proper way. Unfortunately I'm very limited in what I can do - I'm trying to grow covertly, without buying pre-sterilized grain like I did before with success.

When I said I pasteurized the rice, I think I meant sterilized - I did have it in the pressure cooker at 15psi for 90+ minutes in glass jars, and then transferred to ziplock bags as soon as it cooled. I tried not to expose it to room air, used gloves, opened the jar inside the ziplock bag, etc. I did this transfer in the area far from previous Trich contamination.

My office where I keep the ziplock grain bags is probably contaminated with Trich spores. But I thought that having micropore tape over vent holes in the ziplocks would keep it out. I'll try to find another place to keep the bags for my next attempt.

I'm trying to find a process that can give me even a tiny yield, so that I can grow small amounts for occasional personal use.




Its definitely the transfer step. Dont do that! Just grow inside the jar, you shouldnt need to transfer your brown rice grain from jars to plastic bags. You're just inviting infections when you do this.

Also, you can buy empty grain bags with the vents on them. All the mycology stores carry them. Or just get some Poly-Filters for your jars (replacing the metal lid with the poly-filter lid) and grow them in the jars u sterilized them with and store the jars in a box to keep it discreet.

Or just use the PF Tek. Very easy to learn and discreet too.


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OfflinePearl
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Re: Keep getting Trich on spawn. Please help [Re: nagual20]
    #26994114 - 10/20/20 08:13 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

nagual20 said:
I'm not sure what "MS" means here. Multi-spore? I made several spore prints from my previous growing successes on aluminum foil, and have transferred them into syringes. I've used distilled water that was also pressure-cooked, but like you said not using an SAB when scraping spores into water introduces another contamination risk.

...

Thank you for the tips and the general info - I appreciate your help.

Like I said I'm doing this covertly, and can't order any "suspicious" supplies to be delivered. So it's making experimenting a bit hard.

My next attempt:
I'll make an SAB and do print scrape / syringe prep there.
I'll ditch ziplocks and inoculate jars directly.

Do you know if micropore tape stops Trich spores in the air?

Do you think I'd have a lower contamination chance, if I was outside when doing SAB work - let's say in my garage with the door open?

Thanks again.




MS does indeed mean multispore, so basically anything not cloned or isolated. Spore prints are not clean, as the cap they come from very likely wasn't grown in a clean environment.

As such, you shouldn't treat them as the best starting point. Most advise to "clean up" the print on agar prior to use. You can get lucky making a syringe, but it won't be 100% clean. Just know that as the print itself is dirty, prepping a syringe in a SAB does NOT mean it will be clean.

How are your grain jars setup? Specifically your lids...

Do not use a SAB outside, you want it to be in a place with little to no air movement. :smile:


Edited by Pearl (10/20/20 08:16 AM)


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OfflineCanebrake
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Re: Keep getting Trich on spawn. Please help [Re: Pearl]
    #26994657 - 10/20/20 02:06 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Whats funny is you guys that are taking a shit on MS syringes. I take my own spore prints. I put my spores to a syringe and actually have had great success the last 4-5 grows. A lot better success than with agar. Maybe you guys are doing it wrong.

Quick tip.... Let the spores drop about 3 hours and then put the caps to another piece of foil. Let those caps sit 12 hours or so. Pressure cook some sterile water and a brand new out of the package syringe and I've had great success.


Edited by Canebrake (10/20/20 02:07 PM)


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Invisiblecoversall
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Re: Keep getting Trich on spawn. Please help [Re: Canebrake]
    #26994712 - 10/20/20 02:30 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Canebrake said:
Whats funny is you guys that are taking a shit on MS syringes. I take my own spore prints. I put my spores to a syringe and actually have had great success the last 4-5 grows. A lot better success than with agar. Maybe you guys are doing it wrong.

Quick tip.... Let the spores drop about 3 hours and then put the caps to another piece of foil. Let those caps sit 12 hours or so. Pressure cook some sterile water and a brand new out of the package syringe and I've had great success.




What was going wrong with your agar?


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..:: E V E R Y  ::..

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OfflinePearl
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Re: Keep getting Trich on spawn. Please help [Re: coversall]
    #26994784 - 10/20/20 03:12 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Shot in the dark - user error :shrug:


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OfflineGastronomicus
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Re: Keep getting Trich on spawn. Please help [Re: Canebrake] * 1
    #26994803 - 10/20/20 03:19 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

If you make your own spores and if you make your own syringes that's better than what you get from a vendor but it's still inherently less clean than agar. The mushrooms are grown in open air, air that is filled with mold spores. No one is saying you can't be successful with MS syringes, but it's undeniable that taking those spores to agar and ensuring 100% clean inoculate is going to be much better over time.


--------------------
Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up

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Offlinestarbones
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Registered: 03/04/20
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Re: Keep getting Trich on spawn. Please help [Re: Gastronomicus]
    #26994987 - 10/20/20 05:09 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

I do MS to grain only when clone hunting and I know it's a stupid practice I'll never recommend to anyone else. The failure rate is high.

If you're having problems with agar it's a really good idea in this hobby to get better at it lest you want to get your hands on something that REQUIRES agar and you can't get in a syringe like some of those amazing Melmak varieties.

My two cents, your hobby your world man.


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OfflineNichrome
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Re: Keep getting Trich on spawn. Please help [Re: starbones] * 1
    #26995033 - 10/20/20 05:31 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Some things work. Some things work really well consistently. Working with agar is the latter.


--------------------
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Offlinenagual20
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Re: Keep getting Trich on spawn. Please help [Re: starbones]
    #27031854 - 11/10/20 03:38 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Just wanted to thank you and others who helped me here.

I went the jar route and had no contamination.


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