Home | Community | Message Board


Magic-Mushrooms-Shop.com
Please support our sponsors.

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore Bulk Substrate, Injection Grain Bag, North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds, Bulk Cannabis Seeds, Feminized Cannabis Seeds, High THC Strains, USA West Coast Strains   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract, Kratom Powder For Sale   Amazon ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Coir, Scales, Wild Bird Seed

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
InvisibleSaul Ptamets
FairlyUnbalanced
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/20
Posts: 310
Loc: Seattle, WA Flag
I NEED AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION * 1
    #26985950 - 10/14/20 10:13 PM (10 days, 6 hours ago)

How do mushrooms grow outside when there are plenty of contams all around and no sterility? but if there is any of it in my tubs then everything is fucked.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineTheStallionMang
Do U know who yur fuckin with?
Male

Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 1,226
Loc: IL Flag
Last seen: 1 day, 5 hours
Re: I NEED AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION [Re: Saul Ptamets]
    #26985991 - 10/14/20 10:41 PM (10 days, 5 hours ago)

Quote:

Saul Ptamets said:
mushrooms grow outside when there are plenty of contams all around and no sterility?



Because this is true...

but this part is not...
Quote:

Saul Ptamets said:
if there is any of it in my tubs then everything is fucked.




I hate to open the argument about not tossing shit as soon as contams show up but there ya go


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleMycolorado
Hobbyist
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 6,428
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
Trusted Cultivator
Re: I NEED AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION [Re: TheStallionMang] * 2
    #26986018 - 10/14/20 11:00 PM (10 days, 5 hours ago)

When considering scale, yields are orders of magnitude greater in culture compared to nature as conditions are ideal and competition is reduced.  In nature, the competition is huge and ideal conditions are rare.  Cultural conditions will benefit competitive contams as much as the desired fungus and thus provide them with a greater opportunity to thrive and outcompete the desired fungus should they be introduced.  Essentially, shit grows in natural, unsterile, competitive environments, but the success rate is nothing compared to what we can achieve in a controlled, clean, low competition environment....it’s deceiving as it’s hard to fathom the size of nature’s tub.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSaul Ptamets
FairlyUnbalanced
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/20
Posts: 310
Loc: Seattle, WA Flag
Re: I NEED AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION [Re: Mycolorado]
    #26986053 - 10/14/20 11:23 PM (10 days, 5 hours ago)

Quote:

Mycolorado said:
When considering scale, yields are orders of magnitude greater in culture compared to nature as conditions are ideal and competition is reduced.  In nature, the competition is huge and ideal conditions are rare.  Cultural conditions will benefit competitive contams as much as the desired fungus and thus provide them with a greater opportunity to thrive and outcompete the desired fungus should they be introduced.  Essentially, shit grows in natural, unsterile, competitive environments, but the success rate is nothing compared to what we can achieve in a controlled, clean, low competition environment....it’s deceiving as it’s hard to fathom the size of nature’s tub.



so I should just imagine the area is just a huge tub and its all about chances?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleMycolorado
Hobbyist
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 6,428
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
Trusted Cultivator
Re: I NEED AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION [Re: Saul Ptamets]
    #26986075 - 10/14/20 11:35 PM (10 days, 4 hours ago)

More or less.  Chance that the mushrooms’s vegetative state is outcompeting other organisms at the point in time when ideal conditions for fruiting are met.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePearl
Stranger


Registered: 05/28/20
Posts: 138
Last seen: 1 day, 18 hours
Re: I NEED AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION [Re: Mycolorado] * 1
    #26987313 - 10/15/20 05:40 PM (9 days, 10 hours ago)

Exactly. Imagine the whole world is a tub of sorts, with no work done to bolster the chances for the mushrooms we want.

Think of how few places these guys grow, let alone thrive, and then compare that to the size of where they don't.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
Ascension Energy | UFOs | 2020
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 62,161
Loc: The Inexpressible... Flag
Last seen: 4 hours, 17 minutes
Re: I NEED AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION [Re: Mycolorado]
    #26987346 - 10/15/20 06:01 PM (9 days, 10 hours ago)

Well said Mycolorado. :justastonishing:

With nature, its all about ideal conditions. If the conditions are ideal, cubenis will thrive outdoors even with lots of competing infections all around. Its because the cubenis mycelium outcompetes other micro-organisms that are trying to eat the food that the cubenis wants (typically manure). When conditions are not ideal for cubenis, another species of mushrooms or fungus will take over.

When growing indoors, you are reducing the competition artificially to just cubenis (or other active species) and therefore you get these tubs with crazy yields for example.

Its all about the control of conditions in both outdoor and indoor grows. Just with outdoor grows, you are not concerned about infections (cause its impossible to control) and more concerned about making ideal conditions for growth/fruiting.


--------------------
"Conscious contains the ideas, the thoughts, the building blocks behind every reality. Sentience, on the other hand, is the creative force that animates reality and experiences all possible emotions and sensations within them. Consciousness creates reality, sentience experiences reality. Together, consciousness and sentience create the totality of Creation." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin

PROJECT BLUE BOOK ANALYSIS! (312 pages!) | Psychedelics & UFOs | Ready to Contact UFOs? | The Source on Mushrooms | Trippy Gematrix | Dj Teknological at BandLab.com | Fentanyl Test Kits R.I.P. Big Worm :tombstone: || Remember George Floyd (END THE POLICE STATE!) ||                                                         
:sunny::bliss::mushroom2: Oregon Eclipse Festival 2017:: Aug 19th to 21st :: Pure Paradise. :mushroom2::bliss::sunny: :rainbowdrink: Very Effective LSA Extraction Tek :rainbowdrink: | DMT Dab Bongs | UFO Technology! :shpongle:Shpongle:shpongle:  :cacti::bongload: Mescajuana - Mescaline with Marijuana | Water-Bath Cacti Tea:bongload::cacti: 


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSaul Ptamets
FairlyUnbalanced
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/20
Posts: 310
Loc: Seattle, WA Flag
Re: I NEED AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26987809 - 10/16/20 02:20 AM (9 days, 2 hours ago)

ok so can u answer this for me. If I use lets say a 1:3 ratio vs a 1:6 ratio, is the only thing that changes the time it takes to colonize or is the yield affected from it too. 
 
Also, how does a contam even get in the colonizing sub then if my coir and grains are pretty contam resistant? I had 2 tubs recently that had trich in the same exact spots but my others were perfectly fine. Where does the contam take place, in the grains or during colonization. My coir is steralized good btw


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePastywhyteM
Say hello to my little friend
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 35,768
Loc: Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: I NEED AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION [Re: Saul Ptamets] * 1
    #26987822 - 10/16/20 02:34 AM (9 days, 1 hour ago)

If you have a small amount of surviving bacteria in the grain it won’t necessarily smell bad, or even look blatantly wrong. That small amount of bacteria can sometimes inhibit the recovery of the mushroom mycelium and that lag in recovery gives mold a foothold to germinate. It can take some time to learn to spot sneaky bacteria and often it’s not fatal to the grow. But it does pull yields down and makes for lacklustre performance.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinemeowjinx
Stranger
Male
Registered: 05/20/19
Posts: 490
Last seen: 2 days, 4 hours
Re: I NEED AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION [Re: Mycolorado]
    #26987907 - 10/16/20 05:12 AM (8 days, 23 hours ago)

Quote:

Mycolorado said:
When considering scale, yields are orders of magnitude greater in culture compared to nature as conditions are ideal and competition is reduced.  In nature, the competition is huge and ideal conditions are rare.  Cultural conditions will benefit competitive contams as much as the desired fungus and thus provide them with a greater opportunity to thrive and outcompete the desired fungus should they be introduced.  Essentially, shit grows in natural, unsterile, competitive environments, but the success rate is nothing compared to what we can achieve in a controlled, clean, low competition environment....it’s deceiving as it’s hard to fathom the size of nature’s tub.




^ This

It's like a modern farmer asking why he needs fertilizer, irrigation, and biocides when hunter-gatherers in ancient times would just forage for food


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepolaritymind
relaxed attention
I'm a teapot

Registered: 10/10/16
Posts: 674
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 7 hours, 38 minutes
Re: I NEED AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #26987957 - 10/16/20 07:27 AM (8 days, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

TheStallionMang said:
Quote:

Saul Ptamets said:
mushrooms grow outside when there are plenty of contams all around and no sterility?



Because this is true...

but this part is not...
Quote:

Saul Ptamets said:
if there is any of it in my tubs then everything is fucked.




I hate to open the argument about not tossing shit as soon as contams show up but there ya go




haha nice. yeah im with ya here, thats a tough one to open


--------------------
"to affirm life is to also affirm death"
-Albert hofmann


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepolaritymind
relaxed attention
I'm a teapot

Registered: 10/10/16
Posts: 674
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 7 hours, 38 minutes
Re: I NEED AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION [Re: polaritymind]
    #26987963 - 10/16/20 07:40 AM (8 days, 20 hours ago)

But yeah about the contam question. I always wondered why we even need to bucket pasteurize coir, since so many people I know use it for soil, where its also wet for long periods of time, if not constantly, but never contams.

I had the. following idea. Exoenyzmes. Mushrooms digest nutrients not by taking them up into themselves, and then bringin them into contact with digeative enzymes as we do. Instead they secrete the enymes and then take up the digested food (eg cellullose->sugars). That means that the mushrooms actually make the coir more prone to contam, because its suddenly not just cellulose but sugars. If the mushroom isnt strong enough to quickly take up the sugars or grow fast enough over them, a random mold spore that in regular coir would never have anything to live on all of the sudden finds itself some nutes.

But yeah as the previous posters said, hidden bacteria weakening mycelium is a big one. Also I once heard not all bacteria are killed through PCing (only 99% maybe) and the chance for bacteria coming in through air filters in the jars is also there. I especially see this with my woodlover jars which stand around half uncolonized much longer since they colonize slower and its cold and I dont like to excessively heat my room, rather put on another sweater. But since the jars are standing around for a month or two, the chance of a comtam getting in through the filter is higher, and my jars are a bit bacterial. Usually Id throw that away, but with woodlovers Id hope that they can outcompete once I spawn to wood, since bacteria dont really like wood. Its like the cardboard instead of agar thing.


--------------------
"to affirm life is to also affirm death"
-Albert hofmann


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSaul Ptamets
FairlyUnbalanced
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/20
Posts: 310
Loc: Seattle, WA Flag
Re: I NEED AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION [Re: polaritymind]
    #26989020 - 10/16/20 09:01 PM (8 days, 7 hours ago)

yea ive had jars that i pced well and I left them for a month and they all got black mold besides one. So if what you guys said is true, does that mean I should just let jars colonize for a longer time to really make sure the mold gets taken over? or can I just do nothing about.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleMycolorado
Hobbyist
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 6,428
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
Trusted Cultivator
Re: I NEED AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION [Re: Saul Ptamets]
    #26989061 - 10/16/20 09:38 PM (8 days, 6 hours ago)

No, you don’t want mold in any stage of the process.  If your uninoculated jars are molding over that quickly, there’s something wrong with your lids, filters or sterilization.  Care to give a rundown on your jar setup, grain prep and sterilization?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSaul Ptamets
FairlyUnbalanced
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/20
Posts: 310
Loc: Seattle, WA Flag
Re: I NEED AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION [Re: Mycolorado]
    #26990249 - 10/17/20 05:32 PM (7 days, 10 hours ago)

Quote:

Mycolorado said:
No, you don’t want mold in any stage of the process.  If your uninoculated jars are molding over that quickly, there’s something wrong with your lids, filters or sterilization.  Care to give a rundown on your jar setup, grain prep and sterilization?



yessir

My jar setup is one 1/2 inch hole where I put my injector port which I switch out after every jar is done, then I have 3 rly small holes across from the injector that are filtered by https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PZWZJJ4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I cut another 1/2 inch hole in the filter so the injector can fit in the jar correctly. I put tin foil over the lid and use rubber bands to secure but somehow still will get water on the lid the majority of the time.

I use docs wild bird seed tek https://mycotopia.net/topic/5852-docs-wild-bird-seed-tek/ ;

Some batches I will accidently pop a lot of seeds and I'm curious as to if that affects the colonization or not. An answer to that would really help. usually it occurs from me boiling a little too long.
 
The room I put the jars does not have good fae but it does have amazing light.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleMycolorado
Hobbyist
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 6,428
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
Trusted Cultivator
Re: I NEED AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION [Re: Saul Ptamets]
    #26990326 - 10/17/20 06:34 PM (7 days, 9 hours ago)

The port would be my hunch as far as where the integrity is being compromised, as it’s not a permanent fixture in the lid.  Pretty sure most people rtd the ports in so they’re good for multiple uses.  Another  thought would be to cut and rtd your sfd’s over the small holes as opposed to putting the whole thing under the lid, if I read that correctly.  Also, if you’re shooting grains with spore solution, that’s a gamble all in itself.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSaul Ptamets
FairlyUnbalanced
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/20
Posts: 310
Loc: Seattle, WA Flag
Re: I NEED AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION [Re: Mycolorado]
    #26990664 - 10/17/20 10:49 PM (7 days, 5 hours ago)

Another  thought would be to cut and rtd your sfd’s over the small holes as opposed to putting the whole thing under the lid, if I read that correctly.  Also, if you’re shooting grains with spore solution, that’s a gamble all in itself.




What do you mean by cut and rtd your sfd? and the jars that all contamed i didnt inject with solution, I just left them sitting in a room for a month


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleMycolorado
Hobbyist
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/23/16
Posts: 6,428
Loc: Interdimensional Bootcamp
Trusted Cultivator
Re: I NEED AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION [Re: Saul Ptamets]
    #26990728 - 10/17/20 11:33 PM (7 days, 4 hours ago)

Cut the synthetic filter disks down to small pieces that can be fit over the gas exchange holes and glued down with rtv silicone. Sorry, I said rtd early.  The grains shouldn’t be molding if they’re sterilized and sealed in so I’m guessing there may be leaks around the port or somewhere else on your lid setup.  You might try one-piece plastic lids.  If your lids are not the issue, the grain may not be getting properly sterilized.  Some pics would help.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore Bulk Substrate, Injection Grain Bag, North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds, Bulk Cannabis Seeds, Feminized Cannabis Seeds, High THC Strains, USA West Coast Strains   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract, Kratom Powder For Sale   Amazon ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Coir, Scales, Wild Bird Seed

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Newbie with some questions... Cusero 1,131 7 07/15/02 08:25 AM
by Cusero
* Avery’s Albino swab question B21 72 4 10/17/20 11:29 AM
by Josex
* Casing question forevadazin 792 6 11/04/02 06:51 PM
by cheifdog24
* Lights and another question optikal_trip 728 3 09/03/01 10:29 PM
by fiddler4u
* Mushroom Cultivation Categories of Questions: kykeon 1,973 9 11/19/02 10:50 PM
by fredthetree
* humidity question for casings
( 1 2 all )
cbull 3,174 33 05/27/02 09:01 AM
by indicaz
* This question has alread been asked in your other thread. Mycotopian 708 8 02/03/03 06:50 AM
by Anno
* Re: A few questions... Anonymous 956 4 01/04/00 05:19 PM
by Some Old Guy

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, FooMan, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, stonesun, wildernessjunkie, cronicr, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta
336 topic views. 28 members, 187 guests and 41 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic ]
Search this thread:
High Mountain Compost
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2020 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.077 seconds spending 0.012 seconds on 16 queries.