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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: freeze drying cubes [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26990256 - 10/17/20 05:39 PM (12 days, 10 hours ago)

Hmmmmm. curious. Thanks for the explanation. I would expect it to destroy the fruits. Ya'll ever freeze a fresh fruit and see what happens as they thaw?


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: freeze drying cubes [Re: verum subsequentis] * 1
    #26990266 - 10/17/20 05:43 PM (12 days, 10 hours ago)

The process preserves the food being freeze-dried. Its how hiking/camping foods are made as well, it preserves the integrity of the food being freeze dried so they look all nice and purdy when you add hot water to them. :yesnod:

I have frozen fruits before than thawed them. They typically turn soft and mushy (excuse the pun :wink:). Not a happy sight.


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Offlinetrippleblack
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Re: freeze drying cubes [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26990286 - 10/17/20 06:03 PM (12 days, 10 hours ago)

medicinal research papers i combed over state freeze drying is one of the few ways to easily increase potency in final product over heat dried.  Maybe store freeze dried actives in a nitrogen purged bag if psilocin degrades in room temp air within the chitin; that may lead to almost double the potency. 

I buy enoki freeze dried mushrooms all the time.  They keep their shape very well.  I was in the market to buy a freeze dryer for medicinal mushrooms not psilocybin; I see no reason why i wouldn't throw actives in their too when i get it.


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InvisibleMycolorado
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Re: freeze drying cubes [Re: trippleblack] * 2
    #26990309 - 10/17/20 06:22 PM (12 days, 9 hours ago)

You can actually freeze dry mushrooms over a couple months in a plane old freezer, given you’re in a dry climate and there’s a fan in it.  We used to do this in the mycology lab to preserve nice looking specimens. Of course, you wouldn’t do this for any other purpose except to preserve the occasional nice looking fruit as it is totally inefficient as far as time and energy are concerned.  Here’s a freeze dried clump of oysters done this way. They were beat to hell before they went in so don’t look great but you get the idea. 



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Invisiblemaxmush
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Re: freeze drying cubes [Re: Mycolorado] * 1
    #26990388 - 10/17/20 07:19 PM (12 days, 8 hours ago)

You guys are making me want to get the damn thing now lol.

The only disadvantage i see is cost and capacity.

The fruits will look amazing and have a nice fluffy crunchy texture. Almost like Cheetos :smile: Easy AF to grind up into a very fine mesh as well.

Freeze drying will preserve most of what is naturally found within the mushroom itself. We still have a lot to learn about the symphony of chemicals contained within them. We could be losing some of the more subtle nuances from actives that have a low boiling point and evaporate during the "regular" drying process.

Pure speculation however, but that's where discovery all starts :wink:


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Edited by maxmush (10/17/20 07:35 PM)


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: freeze drying cubes [Re: maxmush]
    #26990402 - 10/17/20 07:32 PM (12 days, 8 hours ago)

I wonder if freeze-drying helps with the taste of the shrooms at all :strokebeard:

Yeah, that price is some serious shit. Is the capacity pretty small? Or you looking for large scale freeze dryers?


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OfflineForrester
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Re: freeze drying cubes [Re: trippleblack] * 2
    #26990419 - 10/17/20 07:53 PM (12 days, 8 hours ago)

Quote:

trippleblack said:
medicinal research papers i combed over state freeze drying is one of the few ways to easily increase potency in final product over heat dried.  Maybe store freeze dried actives in a nitrogen purged bag if psilocin degrades in room temp air within the chitin; that may lead to almost double the potency.




I'm gonna call bullshit on this one, unless you have a link to a credible source - I'd love to be proven wrong :wink:

Not that it wouldn't help - but double the potency?  no.


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Invisiblemaxmush
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Re: freeze drying cubes [Re: Forrester]
    #26990601 - 10/17/20 10:04 PM (12 days, 6 hours ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

trippleblack said:
medicinal research papers i combed over state freeze drying is one of the few ways to easily increase potency in final product over heat dried.  Maybe store freeze dried actives in a nitrogen purged bag if psilocin degrades in room temp air within the chitin; that may lead to almost double the potency.




I'm gonna call bullshit on this one, unless you have a link to a credible source - I'd love to be proven wrong :wink:

Not that it wouldn't help - but double the potency?  no.




Assuming the baseline is regularly dried fruits, in theory it would not INCREASE the potency but rather DECREASE the degradation of actives.


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Disclaimer: all information presented is intended for educational purposes only. All photos are only representations and not directly from the user.


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: freeze drying cubes [Re: maxmush] * 1
    #26990710 - 10/17/20 11:19 PM (12 days, 4 hours ago)

:camping:
Waiting to see if the money is spent...


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Offlinetrippleblack
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Re: freeze drying cubes [Re: Forrester]
    #26990837 - 10/18/20 01:29 AM (12 days, 2 hours ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

trippleblack said:
medicinal research papers i combed over state freeze drying is one of the few ways to easily increase potency in final product over heat dried.  Maybe store freeze dried actives in a nitrogen purged bag if psilocin degrades in room temp air within the chitin; that may lead to almost double the potency.




I'm gonna call bullshit on this one, unless you have a link to a credible source - I'd love to be proven wrong :wink:

Not that it wouldn't help - but double the potency?  no.




likely bullshit, assuming all psilocin degrade it may be close to 15 or 20% more potent than the same fruit dried... i was thinking the psilocin content was similar to the psilocybin content..  thats not the case with cubes.

I have links to research stating freeze dried cordycep mushrooms retain more potency than heat dried, nothing for actives.


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Re: freeze drying cubes [Re: trippleblack] * 1
    #26990845 - 10/18/20 01:39 AM (12 days, 2 hours ago)

I have large harvest right brand freeze dryers already 

I will be the Guinea pig


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Invisiblemaxmush
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Re: freeze drying cubes [Re: nogoodnamesleft]
    #26990875 - 10/18/20 02:38 AM (12 days, 1 hour ago)

Quote:

nogoodnamesleft said:
I have large harvest right brand freeze dryers already 

I will be the Guinea pig




Sweet. That's the one i am getting :smile:

Please report back


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InvisibleNichrome
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Re: freeze drying cubes [Re: maxmush]
    #26990880 - 10/18/20 02:45 AM (12 days, 1 hour ago)

Freeze dried things seem to all be very very brittle. How do you plan to store them without them crumbling into flour?


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OfflineForrester
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Re: freeze drying cubes [Re: trippleblack]
    #26990986 - 10/18/20 06:22 AM (11 days, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

trippleblack said:
assuming all psilocin degrade it may be close to 15 or 20% more potent than the same fruit dried... i was thinking the psilocin content was similar to the psilocybin content..  thats not the case with cubes.





Yeah that sounds more like the numbers I've always heard, like 20% max.

Although I'm wondering as well, even if all the psilocin is saved in the initial freeze drying process, I think it still may be difficult to get it to hold up over time.  With how brittle and destroyed the mushroom material gets in the freeze-drying process, even the smallest amount of air is going to oxidize the psilocin.  But I'm just speculating...


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InvisiblebodhisattaM
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Re: freeze drying cubes [Re: Forrester]
    #26991068 - 10/18/20 09:23 AM (11 days, 18 hours ago)

I don't think psilocin is as reactive as sodium or potassium metal. A lot of things that oxidize don't just oxidize in the atmosphere. Iron oxidizes but it takes moisture or salt to make it happen in air.


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OfflineForrester
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Re: freeze drying cubes [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26991140 - 10/18/20 10:35 AM (11 days, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
I don't think psilocin is as reactive as sodium or potassium metal. A lot of things that oxidize don't just oxidize in the atmosphere. Iron oxidizes but it takes moisture or salt to make it happen in air.




Maybe it's not as reactive as those metals, but isn't it known to be pretty quickly destroyed?  I thought I remembered reading, but don't have a link...


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Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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InvisiblebodhisattaM
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Re: freeze drying cubes [Re: Forrester]
    #26991144 - 10/18/20 10:37 AM (11 days, 17 hours ago)

Ive read all sorts of shit so its hard to know what to believe. A lot of psilocin gets destroyed immediately by air comes from pretty shit sources so I really don't know if anyone truely knows even still to this day just how reactive it is as a pure compound and in the mushrooms


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OfflineForrester
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Re: freeze drying cubes [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26991148 - 10/18/20 10:40 AM (11 days, 17 hours ago)

That's what I figured, what I've read I think is mostly hearsay as well :shrug:


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Re: freeze drying cubes [Re: Forrester]
    #26992568 - 10/19/20 11:24 AM (10 days, 16 hours ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

trippleblack said:
assuming all psilocin degrade it may be close to 15 or 20% more potent than the same fruit dried... i was thinking the psilocin content was similar to the psilocybin content..  thats not the case with cubes.





Yeah that sounds more like the numbers I've always heard, like 20% max.

Although I'm wondering as well, even if all the psilocin is saved in the initial freeze drying process, I think it still may be difficult to get it to hold up over time.  With how brittle and destroyed the mushroom material gets in the freeze-drying process, even the smallest amount of air is going to oxidize the psilocin.  But I'm just speculating...




yea, thats my only reason for mentioning a nitrogen purge to store fruits; which is really easy if it would actually work. 

I got this information from the infamous INDRA.  Told me there are ways to tweak the machines he make(bho closed loop extractors) to blast mushrooms but the blast had to be done while suberged in nitrogen.. which can be dangerous..  he regrets coming out with the bho tek as he did so i doubt we'll get a mushroom tek out of him. 

indra is the chemist who popularized and gave everyone to tek to create BHO/ hash oil.


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Re: freeze drying cubes [Re: trippleblack]
    #26992771 - 10/19/20 01:20 PM (10 days, 14 hours ago)

Butane is a crap solvent for alkaloids. I dont think it would work for any type of psilo. You'd get some oil for sure but I don't think it would be active at all.

Of course air with oxygen in it has the "potential" to oxidize anything given the right conditions and the right amount of time. IME it takes about a year for cracker dry mushrooms in a vac sealed or unopened container to start to show signs of oxidization. Water is going to be your biggest culprit. Achieving oxidization of a psilo type molecule held within a chitin matrix at temperatures we all range (fruiting-dehydration) would be difficult IMO. I'm sure it would happen faster if you continually stored them at a higher temperature or constantly re-wetted and dehydrated over and over. I suspect that during the drying process there is negligible loss of actives.

Anyone who has tried to get a nice patina on a reactive metal like copper will tell you it's not as easy and takes some extreme conditions sometimes.


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