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Invisiblequinn
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inheritance fund
    #26936600 - 09/15/20 10:53 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

inheritance seems dumb, not only does it perpetuate inequality but also waiting for a loved one to die to maybe be able to afford a house at some arbitrary point in your future, seems bad as a system.

one way around this would be pooling together everyone's inheritance. then when someone dies the money gets distributed evenly to everybody which means instead of getting a big lump at some arbitrary point you might get $500 this month, $50 the next, nothing the following and so on indefinitely.

imo this would be much more agreeable but seems unlikely that something like that would ever be put into legislation.. so perhaps a more achievable vision would be an opt in fund where anyone who opts in pledges to donate whatever they inherit to be distributed to everyone else. the key aim of it would be getting people who will inherit nothing, at least something.

thoughts.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: inheritance fund [Re: quinn]
    #26936707 - 09/15/20 11:55 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

You can make a clay die of a garden gnome and pour if full with 40lbs of gold and you now have a million dollar artwork, which isn't an investment product in tax terms, and you can even have its art value appraised as $20, for tax purposes :laugh:


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: inheritance fund [Re: quinn] * 2
    #26936782 - 09/15/20 12:41 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Tough sell.  I mean, if I'm working hard to provide financial security for my family, especially for my children, it would be a frightening thought to consider that this security would be taken away from my child upon my death.  It would also be quite difficult logistically, as often a family's wealth is tied up in their home or other capital goods.  If the parents die, must their home be sold so the value locked within it could be divided equally amongst the greater population?  What about valuable heirlooms like a great-grandfather's gold watch, the only possession the family managed to maintain when they fled a war torn era so many decades prior, and thus provides a meaningful connection for that family's children to their past?

Perhaps you are not aware, but there are estate tax laws on the books already, whereby the value of a person's estate at the time of their death in excess of a certain amount, must be paid to the state in the form of a tax.  This in effect is a sort of wealth distribution along the same vein as that which you are proposing, as government taxes are designed to fund projects that support public infrastructure and social services.

There is also a voluntary system of giving in place already... The Giiving Pledge, which I believe Bill & Melinda Gates initiated, whereby wealthy individuals are encouraged to pledge to give away at least 50% of their wealth for the public good.

To be frank, I do believe there needs to be a multitude of solutions enabled to address the growing wealth disparity around the world.  I just don't think outright seizure and redistribution of a family's inheritance is a good way to go about it.  I would sooner support a universal basic income, which in effect would dilute a wealthier family's base through inflation, which is much more palatable than up front confiscation.


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InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
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Re: inheritance fund [Re: geokills]
    #26936794 - 09/15/20 12:50 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

It should go so far as to abolish all private property and divide it equally for public use. Seizing only inheritance only means funds will be buried or transferred in other opaque ways.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: inheritance fund [Re: quinn]
    #26936838 - 09/15/20 01:19 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
inheritance seems dumb, not only does it perpetuate inequality




Its also the only way for a family to move up the ladder.  If you are "poorer" and manage to secure a "richer" future for your kids then your kids enjoy a higher standard of living than you have.

If your money was stripped away your kids would have to start from poverty too and have the guarantee that their kids would have to start poor too.

That way you trap the poor in poverty as you nullify their ability to elevate their offspring.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: inheritance fund [Re: geokills] * 1
    #26938036 - 09/15/20 11:08 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Similarly, you "trap" the wealthy in wealth, and the powerful in power.

I've mentioned this before, but outside of true idiocy (which usually takes hold within three generations of wealth, statistically) I believe the principle of Ostwalt Ripening applies to money as well.

Inheritance is fundamentally opposed to meritocratic ideals within a society. A society cannot truly claim to be a meritocracy as long as a system of inheritance is in place.

Quote:

geokills said:
What about valuable heirlooms like a great-grandfather's gold watch, the only possession the family managed to maintain when they fled a war torn era so many decades prior, and thus provides a meaningful connection for that family's children to their past?




It's interesting you bring up a watch. In the grand scheme of things (and I don't mean overall, I mean in the sense of even a single year of a single human's life), a watch, even one made of solid gold, is essentially worthless apart from sentimental value.



This is a genius ad campaign, for one of, if not the fanciest watchmaker in the world. That watch in that ad is worth more than a Rolex, and I mean almost the whole lineup of Rolexes, excluding customs. I didn't dig too deeply, but this is the kind of watch that you don't need to know the price for, because if you need to know the price, you cannot afford it. That watch at the bottom of that ad is easily 75-100k. I didn't actually call to find out the price, because the store is closed right now.

Thing is, this is an ad campaign for someone that is not truly wealthy. This is an ad campaign for someone who has worked hard, is maybe a millionaire, but doesn't have capital W Wealth. A real inheritance is stocks. A real inheritance is properties. A real inheritance is a controlling stake in a major corporation. The ad is an aspiration. It's a representation of the life you could have lived if you had true wealth. This specific one doesn't make it as obvious, but they use the same tagline over a dude teaching his kid to tie knots on a yacht.

This watch? It's what you give your kid when you can't afford a real inheritance, but still want your kid to know you worked really hard. It's the "I did my best!". The lifetime equivalent of one of those "I went to xxx and all I got was this lousy T-shirt" that you grab at the tourist shop in the airport before flying home. The implication is "this is the kind of shit truly wealthy people buy, so buy it to at least look wealthy in your will".

This touches on a more fundamental difference, one that is intentionally blurred by the Wealthy people. Same way that billionaires pretend they're just like the doctor or lawyer that got good grades, worked their ass off, put up a shingle, and collect their 300k a year (which, yeah, you worked hard, you earned that...oh, maybe 6-10 mil depending on how fast you moved? 20-30 years at 300k?), instead of the reality that the billionaire inherited a significant portion of their wealth and got lucky with a risk they could afford with that wealth.

This difference is between "personal" property, and "private" property. Personal property is your watch. Personal property is your house. Private property is your company that generates income without any real input from you. Private property is the apartment building you own and collect rent from. Private property is your stock portfolio, growing fatter on the backs of the peasant's 401(k)s.

Now while I would personally prefer a perfectly meritocratic society, because nothing opens a rich person's wallet and generosity quite like the thought their kids will be limited to the same resources as the plebs, I recognize this is infeasible. I am willing to settle for inheritance being limited to "personal" property. And that should be regulated better than the current estate tax setup.

Sorry for the fairly political tangent, I'll keep it to the politics forum.


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OfflineIce9
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Re: inheritance fund [Re: Kryptos]
    #26941589 - 09/18/20 02:41 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)

I play cards with a guy who sometimes like to play low stakes for shits and giggles, he has Patek Phillipe Grand Complication Chiming watch that was customized to what he wanted.  I knew the base watch was about 400k, so I asked him what his cost, 1.2M just dangling on his wrist and most people wouldn't even recognize it, or a Vacheron Constatin, another ultra luxe watch maker.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: inheritance fund [Re: geokills]
    #26941618 - 09/18/20 03:46 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

geokills said:
Tough sell.  I mean, if I'm working hard to provide financial security for my family, especially for my children, it would be a frightening thought to consider that this security would be taken away from my child upon my death.  It would also be quite difficult logistically, as often a family's wealth is tied up in their home or other capital goods.  If the parents die, must their home be sold so the value locked within it could be divided equally amongst the greater population?  What about valuable heirlooms like a great-grandfather's gold watch, the only possession the family managed to maintain when they fled a war torn era so many decades prior, and thus provides a meaningful connection for that family's children to their past?

Perhaps you are not aware, but there are estate tax laws on the books already, whereby the value of a person's estate at the time of their death in excess of a certain amount, must be paid to the state in the form of a tax.  This in effect is a sort of wealth distribution along the same vein as that which you are proposing, as government taxes are designed to fund projects that support public infrastructure and social services.

There is also a voluntary system of giving in place already... The Giiving Pledge, which I believe Bill & Melinda Gates initiated, whereby wealthy individuals are encouraged to pledge to give away at least 50% of their wealth for the public good.

To be frank, I do believe there needs to be a multitude of solutions enabled to address the growing wealth disparity around the world.  I just don't think outright seizure and redistribution of a family's inheritance is a good way to go about it.  I would sooner support a universal basic income, which in effect would dilute a wealthier family's base through inflation, which is much more palatable than up front confiscation.




I think this is a good policy. The rich give up some in inheritance tax. The super rich give up more. I don't think regular people should be taxed at all on this, and they are, but there are easy legal maneuvers around it. The problem is the lower income and less educated don't know these tax moves, and their kids pay disproportionately.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: inheritance fund [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #26942220 - 09/18/20 12:50 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

You can set limits on personal wealth that can be transferred by inheritance.

I'd say 100 million dollars per heir is about the maximum.


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OfflineRob864guy
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Re: inheritance fund [Re: Asante]
    #26988247 - 10/16/20 01:15 PM (10 days, 15 hours ago)

I'd much rather have what I worked for passed down to my family. They helped me, society didn't. It's bad enough that upon my death, the government is going to essentially "rifle " through all my belongings and tax the shit out of what I earned with my own two hands.

I'd much prefer everything go back to my own family.


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OfflineIce9
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Re: inheritance fund [Re: Rob864guy] * 1
    #26989290 - 10/17/20 01:01 AM (10 days, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

Rob864guy said:
I'd much rather have what I worked for passed down to my family. They helped me, society didn't. It's bad enough that upon my death, the government is going to essentially "rifle " through all my belongings and tax the shit out of what I earned with my own two hands.

I'd much prefer everything go back to my own family.




You've never used a public road? Or been through public education? :nodofunderstanding:


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InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
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Re: inheritance fund [Re: Ice9]
    #26989681 - 10/17/20 09:28 AM (9 days, 19 hours ago)

Inheritance tax doesn't apply if your estate is under something like $12 million dollars. But Rob clearly DID get a public education. :smilingpuppy:


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OfflineRob864guy
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Re: inheritance fund [Re: Ice9]
    #26990120 - 10/17/20 03:49 PM (9 days, 13 hours ago)

There is a difference between estate taxes and and paying taxes on gasoline/diesel, then paying for road taxes when you register your car.

Once government starts rifling through what is passed down to me, and what I pass down to my children, then there are problems. We don't include the government in our will, they show up and take what they want, then allow the final wishes of the deceased to take place.


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InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
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Re: inheritance fund [Re: Rob864guy]
    #26990169 - 10/17/20 04:28 PM (9 days, 12 hours ago)

I don't think that's the case if you leave a will. If you don't and it goes to probate, the government takes a good chunk because lawyers are expensive.


They government really doesn't want to get involved in your shit. They give you your entire life to go get a will drafted up. You have from age 18 to the day you die to do it and it usually only cost a couple hundred bucks, but people don't do it so there isn't another mechanism to distribute an estate.


The Anna Nicole Smith's husband estate was really interesting, but the motherfucker was an estate lawyer and didn't leave a current will. Plus he was 90 years old, worth a billion dollars and married a stripper 14 months before his death. It went to the supreme court because his new wife wasn't in the will.


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OfflineRob864guy
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Re: inheritance fund [Re: Ahab McBathsalts]
    #26990435 - 10/17/20 08:07 PM (9 days, 9 hours ago)

You got something you want to say? Quit the snarky bullshit.


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